Bureaucrats: National Impact only

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Immortal Impi

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I would also like to see ideas about how this would be represented. It's not like the Victoria 2 system was all that impressive. Use a national focus to increase the number of bureaucrats in a state, research bureaucratic techs, and increase your admin funding slider. Whoopee, within about 40-50 years you will have achieved that wonderful perfect green color of 100% efficiency.

It was a poor system for reflecting the fact that although we saw a modernization and standardization of administration in the core of modernizing countries, this was hardly as uniform or easy as V2 makes it seem. The expansion of administration saw major resistance and local shitstorms as peasantry and rural populations of more farflung regions opposed the imposition of a central governmental direction and most crucially a bigger presence of the taxman.

The physical expansion of bureaucracy was crucial to this. A bureaucracy centralized purely in the capital is actually a fairly pre-modern idea. It is Rome, Constantinople, Kaifeng, Baghdad. The mass concentration of wealth and administration in a central imperial capital. But what makes modern states so much more resilient and powerful is that they are not this.

Modern Administration is a thousand heads, not one; a hydra of ink and paper that cannot be vanquished. Paris or Berlin are important centers but what really revolutionized bureaucracy in the modern era is that you also had offices in Munich, or in Bordeaux, in New York, or in New Orleans. It was a standardized, scaleable, systemic network that worked very hard and fought very hard to penetrate every aspect of its realm, to flex its newfound muscles. Many American towns in the nineteenth century were still shooting tax collectors. After 1917 the country had a permanent income tax.

In Europe, you saw explosions of spontaneous resistance and violence in localities against the expansion of bureaucracy. You need to see how from 1836 to 1936 the reality of your state shifts from a small core and large periphery to a far larger core and an even larger periphery that is now moving abroad to other countries as you solidify your grip. I rib on the perfect green color but it is a wonderful teaching tool, just too easy to achieve. You should lust for that glowing green as you force tax collectors into every nook and cranny, every medieval backwater, every venerable autonomous feudatory, as you pry open the pocketbooks of your ever more alienated citizenry for that extra dollar, pound, or mark.
 
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BeauNiddle

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One potentially interesting idea is bureaucracy per market. They have already talked about large countries having multiple markets and of markets merging over time. If they had a check per market to see if there was enough bureaucrats & paper then you'd get the effect of underserved outside areas without needing loads of calculations per state.

Over time you could centralise your bureaucrats if you wanted but you'd need the infrastructure support for that first.

It would be no change for small countries & an interesting challenge for large countries.

[This would only be internal markets obviously - we're not at the EU level where people trust foreign bureaucrats to run their industries in this timeframe]
 
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Lord Lambert

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Ideally I'd like to see a system where beurocracy is on the state level, but "spare" beurocracy, over what is needed for the state, would bleed out from it, and be impacted by infrastructure. So if you have for example, a need for 138 (screw round numbers, all my homies hate round numbers) beurocracy in London's State, but generate 183 (screw rou... you get the picture), the remaining 45 would be bled out into the surrounding areas, but take a malus on that. Say 80% at the base level, but getting better by 20% with road networks or 50% with rail or what have you. That would be pretty sick.
 
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Arizal

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@Immortal Impi Such a passionate cry for the implementation of a better bureaucratic mechanic is admirable! I admit that most of us probably just feel the absence of local bureaucracies a dumb down compared to Vicky 2, and it's true Vicky 2 wasn't particularly complex on that front, but what you propose seems very interesting and I hope the devs stumble on that post!
 

Heatth

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Think about it : with a perfectly working administration everywhere, there is no far west, no difference between North and South Italy, colonies (those that aren't portrayed as their own states at least) won't be any different than the metropolis on how effective the player actions are.
Bureaucracy capacity effects only incorporated states. We don't yet know what is the systems to deal with colonies and unincorporated states.
 

alexti

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Ideally I'd like to see a system where beurocracy is on the state level, but "spare" beurocracy, over what is needed for the state, would bleed out from it, and be impacted by infrastructure. So if you have for example, a need for 138 (screw round numbers, all my homies hate round numbers) beurocracy in London's State, but generate 183 (screw rou... you get the picture), the remaining 45 would be bled out into the surrounding areas, but take a malus on that. Say 80% at the base level, but getting better by 20% with road networks or 50% with rail or what have you. That would be pretty sick.
I wonder if a better model for administration would be spread based. Bureaucrats pops would generate "administration" that would spread across the nation according certain rules (kind of like dominion spread in Dominions). That's similar to your suggestion, but a bit more generic.