bureaucratic despotism

[darkseige5]

I have heard that an event called "Scheming Bureaucracy" gives you the option to switch your government to a bureaucratic despotism. I have played through the game a few times now and have never gotten this event. I have seen the AI get it before though. One game almost ever single large power was one by the end. I am aware the Republics are kind of terrible in this game, but I feel like it would be an interesting experience to play as one in the late game. There are really not a whole lot of ways to become a republic, especially when your nation is large and revolts that cause your nation to change government take so dang long because of it.

Can anyone help me understand how the event works? Thanks!

 

[Faulty]

What's that government type meant to represent?

 

[Zander]

The only triggers are having ADM tech 20 and at least 200 ADM points, and being a monarchy. Nothing makes it more or less likely, and the MTTH is 183 years.

As for what it's meant to represent, I've wondered the same thing. Can anyone suggest an example of a real-world government that's meant to fit this type?

 

[darkseige5]

Something Socialist I assume considering how late it gets unlocked.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Odd i just checked most of EU4 event files (basically all but country flavor events) and i couldnt find that event at all?

I do remember it from EU3 however.

Something Socialist I assume considering how late it gets unlocked.

I doubt it has anything to do with socialism. I see it basically as a monarchy in which the ruler has strict rights and obligations while they have a cabinet that deals with its own matters. Cabinet members are pretty much elected among most powerful statesmen (plutocracy, meritocracy or bureaucrats, whichever way you prefer it). In essence similar to merchant republic only without the whole trade thingy.

 

[Rya]

In the same vein, what's the (logical) difference between a revolutionary republic and bureaucratic despotism? The bureaucratic despotism event IS basically a revolution. One that takes a few clicks to ride out. Monarch dethroned and noone in Europe cares.
I think this event is a not so good attempt at shoving in another thing from EU3. Potentially huge gameplay consequences makes it a major event when nations like Austria, France or Spain get it but the player doesn't even get a notice until he checks why the hell Austria is no longer emperor or his long-lasting PU broke.

As for what it's meant to represent, I've wondered the same thing. Can anyone suggest an example of a real-world government that's meant to fit this type?

European Union. Just kidding ... or am I?

 

[An Elder Thing]

Odd i just checked most of EU4 event files (basically all but country flavor events) and i couldnt find that event at all?

I do remember it from EU3 however.



I doubt it has anything to do with socialism. I see it basically as a monarchy in which the ruler has strict rights and obligations while they have a cabinet that deals with its own matters. Cabinet members are pretty much elected among most powerful statesmen (plutocracy, meritocracy or bureaucrats, whichever way you prefer it). In essence similar to merchant republic only without the whole trade thingy.

Isn't it more of a government representing things like the late Ottoman Empire, or the Directorate of Revolutionary France?

 

[GamingHUD]

Odd i just checked most of EU4 event files (basically all but country flavor events) and i couldnt find that event at all?

It is in the dynastic events file, line 433.

 

[darkseige5]

I think its a fun event...it allows you to become a republic...which is overly difficult in this game unless you have a nation specific event to become one.

 

[Esben_DRK]

Isn't it more of a government representing things like the late Ottoman Empire, or the Directorate of Revolutionary France?

The French (Or a revolution like it elsewhere) are simulated through their Revolutionary governments - Republic or Empire - so I doubt it can be that.
Just looking up the phrase on wiki returns nothing really useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucratic_despotism
But then I came to think: Maybe it could represent some of the South American or Mexican republics, that were not really democracies and not a monarchy like Brazil?
The Ottomans were a sultanate (IIRC there were some 50 year periods where their generals or pashas or the like ruled, but those were more like regencies right?), so I don't think it should apply there, even if the basic mechanics could.
I'm pretty uncertain. Has anyone gone through the history files and checked what PDS uses it for, if anything?
- one thought: Could the Napoleonic republics be Bureaucratic Despots? Or do they have another government?

Something Socialist I assume considering how late it gets unlocked.

Can't be. It'd be entirely unlike socialism and some 100 years too early.

 

[DanubianCossak]

It is in the dynastic events file, line 433.

Nice catch, heres the actual event:

# Scheming Bureaucracy
country_event = {
	id = 9462
	title = "EVTNAME9462"
	desc = "EVTDESC9462"
	picture = DEBATE_REPUBLICAN_eventPicture
	
	trigger = {
		government = monarchy
		adm_tech = 20
		adm_power = 200
	}
	
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 2200
	}
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA9462"
		add_adm_power = -100
		add_stability = -1
	}
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB9462"
		kill_ruler = yes
		add_stability = -6
		change_government = bureaucratic_despotism
	}
}

So you have to be a monarchy, admin tech 20, and have at least 200 saved up adm power. It appears to have quite a small MTTH of just 2200 months (so it should fire fairly often world-wise).

What confuses me is that there are no ai_chance = { factor = 100 } commands for 2 different event choices. I thought if it was codded like this, the AI always took the first option?

 

[Comrade Chaos]

I thought it was a Tropico joke. Unfortunately, this event fires very frequently for the AI, leading to many of these weird governments.

 

[grisamentum]

"bureaucratic despotism" shouldn't be a government type. It's a style or culture of ruling, not a government type in itself. Pretty stupid and should be removed. If the event still exists it should turn the monarchy in to an administrative republic.

 

[DanubianCossak]

"bureaucratic despotism" shouldn't be a government type. It's a style or culture of ruling, not a government type in itself. Pretty stupid and should be removed. If the event still exists it should turn the monarchy in to an administrative republic.

This actually makes perfect sense.

Any idea what the requirements to go from monarchy > admin rep should be?

 

[LeKaiser]

The tooltip description of Bureaucratic Despotism is:

A governmental form where a nation is controlled by state officials primarily concerned with procedural correctness.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense as a form of government on its own, and that what is described is more a potential side effect of any type of highly centralized government. Not sure what to replace it with, though.

 

[GamingHUD]

Nice catch, heres the actual event:

# Scheming Bureaucracy
country_event = {
	id = 9462
	title = "EVTNAME9462"
	desc = "EVTDESC9462"
	picture = DEBATE_REPUBLICAN_eventPicture
	
	trigger = {
		government = monarchy
		adm_tech = 20
		adm_power = 200
	}
	
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 2200
	}
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA9462"
		add_adm_power = -100
		add_stability = -1
	}
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB9462"
		kill_ruler = yes
		add_stability = -6
		change_government = bureaucratic_despotism
	}
}

So you have to be a monarchy, admin tech 20, and have at least 200 saved up adm power. It appears to have quite a small MTTH of just 2200 months (so it should fire fairly often world-wise).

What confuses me is that there are no ai_chance = { factor = 100 } commands for 2 different event choices. I thought if it was codded like this, the AI always took the first option?

Small MTTH? That is 183 years.. so quite likely that you'll never get it when you consider also the time you generally get adm tech 20 at.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Small MTTH? That is 183 years.. so quite likely that you'll never get it when you consider also the time you generally get adm tech 20 at.

Thats why i said "world-wise". Its a country scoped event. So if you observe just 1 country, of course youre right, theres a prety good chance youll never get it.

But if you have a 100+ tags that meet the trigger conditions, theres a fairly good chance youll get one of those trigger it every few years.

 

[GamingHUD]

Thats why i said "world-wise". Its a country scoped event. So if you observe just 1 country, of course youre right, theres a prety good chance youll never get it.

But if you have a 100+ tags that meet the trigger conditions, theres a fairly good chance youll get one of those trigger it every few years.

Ahh, sorry, I glazed over your bracketed comment. Yeah, given that, certainly someone will end up getting the event, this is true.

 

[golgepapaz]

Heh Just got this event with the Ottomans in year 1755. I had a 556 heir, five year younger than my current monarch so I decided to pick it up. Got a republic with 50 tradition , A few years later I've
got another event to convert back to constitutional monarchy. Converted and now I have 0 legitimacy with 0 year old heir.. Rebels ensued (lots of them)

 

[Daedwartin]

i like to view a bureaucratic despotism as being a state where the bureacracy literally took over the full aspect of state, not just simply being the means the state did things. basically, it goes from being the collection of all the organizations and administrations needed to run the state, to being the state itself. no legislative branch, no judicary branch, just the Bureau. the Councilor was simply the guy with the head position.

it's too early to be socialist. socialism was thought up during the mid-19th century, after the scope of the game.

the government itself was very powerful in EU3, when you spent income to get the stability and tech up. 20% reduction to stability costs meant a massive amount for large states. tiny states, which didnt need the boost, also benefited from the highest admin efficiency of any government, if they didnt have their sliders where they want them. same for big states.

it actually used to be possible to get well before it was possible to unlock in 3 as well. once got it 30 years in as holland. never got rid of it.