Bulwark op early campaign?

[Wofen]

Not moving is never OP.

Bulwark might be powerful vs the AI, but only if the AI is not "aware" of how to counter it.
If the AI can count Jump range, or knows how to use LoS blocking, the Bulwarked mech will just be left behind to die.

As has been pointed out most of the other skills allow you to do things better, and considering the low LoS range in this game, if you are in LoS on a fire support mech (Something that you want standing still and firing as much as possible) you want to move your mech, if your not in LoS then you cant take damage anyhow.
Also, a Forest gives 50% of the benefit that Bulwark does, can be stacked with Evasion and can not be removed.

Wofen

 

[Bubbasan]

Off Topic: @Wofen !!! Great to see you made it to the new digs!

 

[Frank E]

Not moving is never OP.

Bulwark might be powerful vs the AI, but only if the AI is not "aware" of how to counter it.
If the AI can count Jump range, or knows how to use LoS blocking, the Bulwarked mech will just be left behind to die.

As has been pointed out most of the other skills allow you to do things better, and considering the low LoS range in this game, if you are in LoS on a fire support mech (Something that you want standing still and firing as much as possible) you want to move your mech, if your not in LoS then you cant take damage anyhow.
Also, a Forest gives 50% of the benefit that Bulwark does, can be stacked with Evasion and can not be removed.

Wofen

I doubt that the AI will be do a good job of handling Bulwark. I say that because of how powerful it was in PvP. If other players don't do a very good job of handling it, I doubt that the AI will, even if it's a lot better than what we saw in the beta.

I do disagree with the original post. Bulwark gets more powerful relative to evasion the heavier (and slower) your mechs are. I'd expect it to be a lot more powerful in the late game than the early game.

 

[Amechwarrior]

I doubt that the AI will be do a good job of handling Bulwark. I say that because of how powerful it was in PvP. If other players don't do a very good job of handling it, I doubt that the AI will, even if it's a lot better than what we saw in the beta.

I do disagree with the original post. Bulwark gets more powerful relative to evasion the heavier (and slower) your mechs are. I'd expect it to be a lot more powerful in the late game than the early game.

In my modded AI, I set the "Float_MeleeBonusMultiplierWhenAttackingBracedTargets" to 5 from 1.5 and given the AI can get in to melee range, it helps solve that problem. I've just started working on dynamic 'Mech roles and one of my goals for the "Brawler" role is a counter-Bulwark unit that will almost always close to melee ranges and then kool-aid man the opposition while allowing the snipers and scouts to do their thing.

 

[Gorski123]

As a reference point, I find Multishot more valuable than Bulwark early game. Bulwark is my #2, but that's also because I prefer ACs to LRMs, so Sensor Lock - while useful - isn't AS useful as it could be. I would put Evasive move on par with Bulwark, but that's also because more piloting = more punching, and I LOVE punching.

Edit: that's not to say that's an authoritative thing, either - that's just how *I* like to play. All told, I get all of the skills on SOMEBODY at around the same time, but I tend to get Multishot on 2 people, just so I can clean up scrub vehicles faster.

Was Multishot originally designed with vehicles partially in mind or just ended up being useful for that too?

 

[Xinxspuz]

Agreeing with Wofen here.
Bulwark is incredibly powerful in some situations, but it is also easily countered. If you try to go toe-to-toe with a Bulwark 'Mech, you need a huge tonnage advantage to win. The key to countering it is to stay mobile and flank, as well as concentrating fire. If you can pick off the other members of the team, the Bulwark 'Mech will almost always lose once it's outnumbered.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Agreeing with Wofen here.
Bulwark is incredibly powerful in some situations, but it is also easily countered. If you try to go toe-to-toe with a Bulwark 'Mech, you need a huge tonnage advantage to win. The key to countering it is to stay mobile and flank, as well as concentrating fire. If you can pick off the other members of the team, the Bulwark 'Mech will almost always lose once it's outnumbered.

Huh? Just get behind it (no protection from rear shots)or run up and punch it.
Or deny it targets (move out of LoS), forcing it to move.

If you're trying to hammer through its damage reduction by sheer numbers, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Amechwarrior]

From viewing some of the early streams, seems Bulwark might not be as necessary if you already know what you are doing from beta experience. The enemy units just don't live long enough to do any serious damage and going Sensor Lock Sout paired with a Multi-Target Gunner to destroy vehicles and lightly armored units from beyond base LoS will be one of the most powerful early game options.

 

[Gorski123]

From viewing some of the early streams, seems Bulwark might not be as necessary if you already know what you are doing from beta experience. The enemy units just don't live long enough to do any serious damage and going Sensor Lock Sout paired with a Multi-Target Gunner to destroy vehicles and lightly armored units from beyond base LoS will be one of the most powerful early game options.

I tend to agree. OTOH, you can only sensor lock one unit at a time. Maybe we need two SL and a multi first. The start of the campaign game is super easy. Maybe Bulwark should be on the third or fourth pilot to get an ability. You can always use vigilance for a turn or two if you wish you had bulwark. I think that those of us that have been following the development of this game closely should take very little internal damage until after the Argo mission.

TBH, I think we need to figure out what skills/equipment we need to beat 2* missions and we have not seen those yet.

 

[ronhatch]

From viewing some of the early streams, seems Bulwark might not be as necessary if you already know what you are doing from beta experience. The enemy units just don't live long enough to do any serious damage and going Sensor Lock Sout paired with a Multi-Target Gunner to destroy vehicles and lightly armored units from beyond base LoS will be one of the most powerful early game options.

Yeah. And regardless, Bulwark has always suffered from the problem that the AI is extremely good at finding that one little spot that your Bulwarked mech doesn't have LOS to without moving.