You're correct, my not-even-close-to-appropriately-caffeinated brain was incorrectly conflating the two.
To be clear though, you can still push enough instability via non-physical means to break a brace.
Bulwark op early campaign?
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You're correct, my not-even-close-to-appropriately-caffeinated brain was incorrectly conflating the two.
To be clear though, you can still push enough instability via non-physical means to break a brace.
This whole "bulwark is too strong" discussion is totally speculative until we can finally play the game.
Given that we *have* played the game, I disagree. Sufficient data is available.
Well, we are basing our experiences on the Beta and not the full release title.
There isn't any guarantee that it will play the same in the final release version of the game. I wouldn't expect too many changes to the mechanic myself, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. HBS could tweak the effects before launch if they felt it was necessary.
While technically true, you know better than to drop the "something might change" line to me Mei. I don't deal with what might be, I deal with what is.
And what is is unambiguous about how Bulwark performs, and is countered.
I point it out so that we do realize that things are in a state of flux during development and balancing. It is ok to say that this is how we have seen it work during Beta, but it is probably best to not label it as a sure thing for launch when we haven't played that version of the game. For all we know, specific stats or mechanics could change for launch (such as how much damage it negates).
It's just an important distinction to keep in mind until the game launches and we know for sure.
Do you mean "knock them down"? Because that's the only way non-physical stability damage can break a brace.
If you want to see ambiguous bulwark behavior in the beta, try doing some DFAs when you're already in melee range. Sometimes bulwark activates, sometimes it doesn't.
Incorrect. Hitting the unstable state removes brace. You don't need to put it on it's back. This fact killed more than a few mechs in the BWO league.
And sometimes when one shot a mech in the arse during Beta v2 Bulwark still activated, even though it isn't supposed to. What's your point?
I'm not sure it is such a good idea to be re-writing the game mechanics after beta v2.0 has ended. The whole point of the beta was to test combat balance, which for example was the way we came to the conclusion that the 75 point AC/10 was OP. That's why it got scaled back to 60, and one extra point of armor was added to the head.
If we're just forgetting all that and playing willy-nilly with the other fundamental mechanics like Evasion pips, that worries me.
If we're just forgetting all that and playing willy-nilly with the other fundamental mechanics like Evasion pips, that worries me.
Here's a screenshot of me putting an enemy above its stability threshold and that having no effect on its being Guarded and Entrenched (those being the effects that result from a brace action or bulwark activation):
What? Bulwark activates by not moving on your turn (other than rotating in place) and either taking no action or only shooting. What does shooting someone in the back have to do with whether or not bulwark activates?
If you have the Bulwark ability and you're in melee range already and you perform a DFA, sometimes you gain the Guarded and Entrenched effects from Bulwark, and sometimes you don't. My point is that this inconsistency is bizarre.
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Greetings MechWarriors!
This is a gentle reminder to please keep posts directed on the topic being discussed and not on the individuals themselves. Directing posts aimed at individuals often creates friction within the thread and can result in flaming which often results in Jump Drive Malfunctions.
So please keep all posts directed on the posts being made (supporting or countering its points) and not at the individual(s) voicing them.
-Mei
This is a gentle reminder to please keep posts directed on the topic being discussed and not on the individuals themselves. Directing posts aimed at individuals often creates friction within the thread and can result in flaming which often results in Jump Drive Malfunctions.
So please keep all posts directed on the posts being made (supporting or countering its points) and not at the individual(s) voicing them.
-Mei
I feel like people are forgetting that while the major combat mechanics may not have changed, the beta was specifically testing fairly high-skilled pilots. Yeah, we can mod in lower skills, but most people didn't play that way and regardless we aren't entirely sure how well our version of low-skilled pilots matches up with the upcoming release.
So early game is absolutely an unknown.
So early game is absolutely an unknown.
Can you double check that melee/DFA removes Entrenched? I don't believe it does. You can setup a test with 4 fast lights vs 1 orion. Run a game with Bulwarks Orion and one without, don't build any instability until you can melee and record the level. Do it again with a non bulwark and see the bar is higher.
IIRC, nothing gets past Entrenched. Not even a rear Furied shot.
Nah, they take it away. Even something as minor as a locust punch and it's gone.
Before DFA:
After DFA:
Before melee:
After Melee:
My bad, I meant that the melee/DFA attack itself only adds 50% of the listed instability. The melee/DFA removes entrenched, but the 50% reduction still is applied to the initial melee/DFA attack. On mobile, but try that again vs a not Braced target and yhe end instability should be higher, at the full level.Nah, they take it away. Even something as minor as a locust punch and it's gone.
Before DFA:
After DFA:
Before melee:
After Melee:
I should have worded it "Does melee/DFA bypass entrenching?"
So far, we have seen the miner mission with 2 lights in 1 group and a med plus 2 vehicles in a separate group and I do not think any of them had minor pilot abilities let alone majors. We have seen a salvage screen with 3 lights. Our personal character might be able to start the game with Bulwark. What have you seen that I have not that makes you think things will be so different?
While there are no guarantees, it looks like Behemoth, one of your initial pilots, starts with 5 guts and thus bulwark
As a reference point, I find Multishot more valuable than Bulwark early game. Bulwark is my #2, but that's also because I prefer ACs to LRMs, so Sensor Lock - while useful - isn't AS useful as it could be. I would put Evasive move on par with Bulwark, but that's also because more piloting = more punching, and I LOVE punching.
Edit: that's not to say that's an authoritative thing, either - that's just how *I* like to play. All told, I get all of the skills on SOMEBODY at around the same time, but I tend to get Multishot on 2 people, just so I can clean up scrub vehicles faster.
Edit: that's not to say that's an authoritative thing, either - that's just how *I* like to play. All told, I get all of the skills on SOMEBODY at around the same time, but I tend to get Multishot on 2 people, just so I can clean up scrub vehicles faster.
