Bulwark op early campaign?

[Gorski123]

Emphasis is on early game. There are all sorts of interesting things that can be done later on with major pilot abilities and custom built lances.

Bulwark with 50% damage reduction seems like the best early game minor pilot ability by far. Sensor Lock is not terribly useful until you have 2-3 good LRM mechs and skilled pilots, but there will probably be situations where having one SLock pilot will be almost mandatory. Evasion makes you 10% harder to hit. If you have to be moving anyways it is fine, but compared to 50%? I am not a fan of multi target until you have breaching shot or are PPC spamming.

The main drawback is that you are reliant on the enemy coming to you or at least not running away after you start using bulwark. This will not work for some missions. I feel that if we are only expected to take 2-3 contracts/month, we should be able to pick suitable contracts. Time will tell.

I envision 2 mechs with bulwark standing next to each other with their back to a cliff, preferably also in woods. Your other 2 mechs will support with indirect LRMs or other long range weapons. Another benefit to having the only reasonable targets for the AI using bulwark constantly is that an AC20, or other head cap combos, can't one shot your head.

 

[Samskara]

Do we know how many points a pilot has to have in the relavent skill to unlock Bulwark? Might be high enough that you'll have to level up your pilots a bit before you even have it.

 

[Tnarien]

Emphasis is on early game. There are all sorts of interesting things that can be done later on with major pilot abilities and custom built lances.

Bulwark with 50% damage reduction seems like the best early game minor pilot ability by far. Sensor Lock is not terribly useful until you have 2-3 good LRM mechs and skilled pilots, but there will probably be situations where having one SLock pilot will be almost mandatory. Evasion makes you 10% harder to hit. If you have to be moving anyways it is fine, but compared to 50%? I am not a fan of multi target until you have breaching shot or are PPC spamming.

The main drawback is that you are reliant on the enemy coming to you or at least not running away after you start using bulwark. This will not work for some missions. I feel that if we are only expected to take 2-3 contracts/month, we should be able to pick suitable contracts. Time will tell.

I envision 2 mechs with bulwark standing next to each other with their back to a cliff, preferably also in woods. Your other 2 mechs will support with indirect LRMs or other long range weapons. Another benefit to having the only reasonable targets for the AI using bulwark constantly is that an AC20, or other head cap combos, can't one shot your head.

1) You're not going to have a mountain to stand next to 100% of the time.

2) When you do have a mountain, an enemy with JJs can get above and behind you and will get a firing solution that bypasses your Bulwark.

3) Breaching shot 100% counters Bulwark

4) Physical attacks will cause enough instability to negate bulwark.

In short, Bulwark is powerful, but not universal. It has drawbacks, the absolute biggest one of which is that you have to 100% sacrifice your mobility to use it.

 

[Cyttorak001]

Do we know how many points a pilot has to have in the relavent skill to unlock Bulwark? Might be high enough that you'll have to level up your pilots a bit before you even have it.

5 Guts. See the "Battletech Universe" subforum for a list of topics analyzed from the last video, including pilot abilities.

 

[Cyttorak001]

Per the OP, remember that from the latest gameplay video, the devs seem to have re-balanced pilots to be somewhat more even in skill numbers. Coupled with the Hiring Hall screenshots, we can only hire MechWarriors with a total of around 10 skill points. To get a pilot with Bulwark, you'd need something like 1/2/2/5. That seems like it would be pretty rare in the early game.

Your starting pilots might be better than that, but hiring someone with Bulwark seems like it might take a while of boosting your faction reputation.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Sensor Lock is going to be just as, if not more important in the early game. When everyone is blind, the one eyed man is king. If you can stay well away from any enemy LoS and plink with AC/10+5+2, LL, PPCs and LRMs you take no damage in return. Assuming everyone has very low stats, hitting anyone with 3 or 4 Evasion is going to be very hard, SL cuts that in half or more and keeps you out of danger. A team with one SL and one Bulwark pilot is going to be crucial, one to provide LoS and one to soak dmg when you can't kill them all before they close the gap.

 

[Gorski123]

1) You're not going to have a mountain to stand next to 100% of the time.

2) When you do have a mountain, an enemy with JJs can get above and behind you and will get a firing solution that bypasses your Bulwark.

3) Breaching shot 100% counters Bulwark

4) Physical attacks will cause enough instability to negate bulwark.

In short, Bulwark is powerful, but not universal. It has drawbacks, the absolute biggest one of which is that you have to 100% sacrifice your mobility to use it.

1) Have you even watched Battletech videos?

2) True. Their fast light gets one backshot and then your whole lance kills it. Maybe we will need to increase back armor a little. Also, baiting fast mechs to make a short move in order to get back shots might be a valid tactic.

3)We will not be facing breaching shot anytime soon.

4)Bulwark reduces stability damage also. Light mechs have small melee attacks, vehicles do not melee, I don't expect to see a swarm of fast mediums early game.

Honestly! Do you even think before you critique?

 

[AncientRaig]

From what I played of the beta, Bulwark was a large part of my strategy. Sure, there are definitely ways to counter it but if you or your opponent can set themselves up in a decent position that 50% damage and stability reduction will rapidly swing a battle. JJs as a counter is only partial because unless a lance of entirely assaults and heavies is facing a medium jump lance, you'll be able to take advantage of the jumper exposing themselves just as they did to you, and you can move to counter. This also assumes the JJ enemies can make it to you before you gun them down. As I stated back on the old forums, the ability to flat out negate 50% of the damage dealt to you is a very powerful ability and it lacks the same hard counters as evasion. JJing behind the Bulkwarked mech, or punching it, requires you to survive several rounds of the entrenched enemy raining fire on you, while Breaching Shot requires the enemy to only fire one weapon, which is only really helpful on mechs like the Panther or Hunchback that are built around a single weapon system.

 

[Gorski123]

Per the OP, remember that from the latest gameplay video, the devs seem to have re-balanced pilots to be somewhat more even in skill numbers. Coupled with the Hiring Hall screenshots, we can only hire MechWarriors with a total of around 10 skill points. To get a pilot with Bulwark, you'd need something like 1/2/2/5. That seems like it would be pretty rare in the early game.

Your starting pilots might be better than that, but hiring someone with Bulwark seems like it might take a while of boosting your faction reputation.

I was assuming starting pilots with somewhat decent skills, but no abilities. So, you might start with one pilot with 4 guts and have to level him. The second bulwark pilot would take a little longer. My definition of early campaign might need to be a little flexible.

Sensor Lock is going to be as if not more important in the early game. When everyone is blind, the one eyed man is king. If you can stay well away from any enemy LoS and plink with AC/10+5+2, LL, PPCs and LRMs you take no damage in return. Assuming everyone has very low stats, hitting anyone with 3 or 4 Evasion is going to be very hard, SL cuts that in half or more and keeps you out of danger. A team with one SL and one Bulwark pilot is going to be crucial, one to provide LoS and one to soak dmg when you can't kill them all before they close the gap.

I thought SL removed 1 evasion chevron. My main concerns for depending on long range fire are that we start with slow mechs, the AI will usually have fast lights, there is usually a lot of terrain blocking LOS, and that we will probably only get a couple hits before the AI closes. I suppose if your first three mechs can remove all the chevrons, your last mech will hit at 50% or better. If our personal character can start with gunnery 6-7, this would help. Kiting slow mediums and heavies later on sounds fantastic though.

I know you have played this game a lot. How do the fights play out vs the AI when you give it four fast light mechs?

It is notable, that our starting lance(panther, commando, blackjack, shadowhawk) has a lot of long range firepower. I might go for an early SL pilot if someone starts with 4 tactics. We will have to be careful running around with 3hp for awhile.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Bulwark played an integral role in my strategies during the Backer Beta, and yes I have every intention of making the most of it in the upcoming Solo-Campaign. : )

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

I rarely used it, Brace is just as good. Sure you don't get to shoot, but you also get to move for added defense. Plus brace is free and removes instability. I am betting that multi-shot is the top tier opening skill allowing even medium mechs to take down 2-3 vehicles a round.

 

[Amechwarrior]

I was assuming starting pilots with somewhat decent skills, but no abilities. So, you might start with one pilot with 4 guts and have to level him. The second bulwark pilot would take a little longer. My definition of early campaign might need to be a little flexible.



I thought SL removed 1 evasion chevron. My main concerns for depending on long range fire are that we start with slow mechs, the AI will usually have fast lights, there is usually a lot of terrain blocking LOS, and that we will probably only get a couple hits before the AI closes. I suppose if your first three mechs can remove all the chevrons, your last mech will hit at 50% or better. If our personal character can start with gunnery 6-7, this would help. Kiting slow mediums and heavies later on sounds fantastic though.

I know you have played this game a lot. How do the fights play out vs the AI when you give it four fast light mechs?

It is notable, that our starting lance(panther, commando, blackjack, shadowhawk) has a lot of long range firepower. I might go for an early SL pilot if someone starts with 4 tactics. We will have to be careful running around with 3hp for awhile.

I'm not sure I can now give an accurate assessment as gameplay as we saw things changed like Evasion being capped at 4 for lower skilled pilots and the starting Lance has been changed. SL still removes 2 pips according to the infobox in the stream, so that's the same. That 4 Pip cap really edges things to SL as the AI seemed to move cautiously as it was unable to hide behind 6 Pips like it can in the beta. But for the beta 2 w/ starting lance vs other low skill enemy units, the one thing I wish I had the most was SL. While the starting Lance has changed, they had 2 AC/2s, an AC/5, PPC and an LRM5. Not a bad deal vs. partially armored lights like we saw in the miner mission and of course vehicles and turrets. With the beta starter Lance, I would use my SHD-2H as a Jump/Brace spotter. If I did have Bulwark, I wouldn't need to move. However, the real protection comes from that 4 Evasion the SHD can generate, plus Bracing. As it is the lead unit, it ends up taking all the fire. One equally equipped Lance will start to tear it apart even with Brace. Unless you move in the others to share armor, you needed the 4 Evasion to just not take any damage from some of the opponents.

The lighter, faster units also didn't reserve or use its single SL pilot at all in the stream. This is going to be a death sentence for them. Once they gain LoS and end phase, it's your go, your lead can just jump back and next turn you can Sensor Lock. This leaves the AI back at square 1 in the "I need to close and gain LoS" mode everyone is used to taking advantage of in stock beta play.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I rarely used it, Brace is just as good. Sure you don't get to shoot, but you also get to move for added defense. Plus brace is free and removes instability. I am betting that multi-shot is the top tier opening skill allowing even medium mechs to take down 2-3 vehicles a round.

Brace most definitely has its place and is an excellent means to dissipate heat or shake a Malus. And even though I favor Bulwark, I made great use of Brace while defensively repositioning or looking to cool down.

I would not be surprised if the 50% Bonus for Bulwark is ratcheted back to 40%.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Brace most definitely has its place and is an excellent means to dissipate heat or shake a Malus. And even though I favor Bulwark, I made great use of Brace while defensively repositioning or looking to cool down.

I would not be surprised if the 50% Bonus for Bulwark is ratcheted back to 40%.

Was still 50% on the info bar for dmg and stability on stream. I would think the combat game would be locked down by now so they can balance the sim game and something massive like a nerf to bulwark/brace might not be feasible right now.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Was still 50% on the info bar for dmg and stability on stream. I would think the combat game would be locked down by now so they can balance the sim game and something massive like a nerf to bulwark/brace might not be feasible right now.

I hope so. I should like to preserve the tactical options set that Bulwark at 50% represented.

 

[Gorski123]

Kinda rude there Gorski

A little, but I thought I was fair. So far, it is 50/50 on the down votes. We will see.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bulwark would seem to help a lot, but it does have it's drawbacks. As many mentioned above, there are ways to defeat it.

Overall though, I think the thing I dislike the most about it is I have to stay stationary, and I'd imagine the enemy is going to be moving most of the time. If I want to stay in an ideal range, I will have to move with them and then I will lose that Bulwark bonus. Not to mention, there are natural features of a map like Forests that also offer damage reduction as well.

For me, I think I'd rather try to move as much as possible and stay as evasive as possible. Ideally, I'd like to move a lot in a forest if possible or dart from forest to forest.

Overall, I'd like to focus on tactics that would keep me harder to hit (shots missing all together) than taking less damage while standing still.

Now, if I remember right from the Beta, bigger mechs don't generate as much evasion. That might be where Bulwark would come in handy. If the mech is slower and can't generate that evasion too well from movement, maybe then Bulwark might serve it better.

In a way, I'm kind of thinking that Bulwark might be better late game in that sense.

 

[Tnarien]

1) Have you even watched Battletech videos?

I guess those 200+ hours of fiddling with the Beta v1/v2 were meaningless.

Oh well.

2) True. Their fast light gets one backshot and then your whole lance kills it. Maybe we will need to increase back armor a little. Also, baiting fast mechs to make a short move in order to get back shots might be a valid tactic.

Who said anything about Lights?

3)We will not be facing breaching shot anytime soon.

Yes you will. OpFor MechWarriors play by different rules.

4)Bulwark reduces stability damage also. Light mechs have small melee attacks, vehicles do not melee, I don't expect to see a swarm of fast mediums early game.

You sorely underestimate the level of instability that a DFA strike imparts.

Honestly! Do you even think before you critique?

Quite a lot. You should attempt to do the same.

 

[Tnarien]

Bulwark would seem to help a lot, but it does have it's drawbacks. As many mentioned above, there are ways to defeat it.

Overall though, I think the thing I dislike the most about it is I have to stay stationary, and I'd imagine the enemy is going to be moving most of the time.

Ding ding ding. Flanking with a PPC/AC5-10 unit is perhaps the simplest way to flush a Bulwark pilot.

If the enemy is bunching to play zone defense, the end result is that at least one (probably more if you play your cards right) of your units will have rear arc shots.

 

[HonorKnight]

4) Physical attacks will cause enough instability to negate bulwark.

4)Bulwark reduces stability damage also.

You sorely underestimate the level of instability that a DFA strike imparts.

DFA and melee both completely ignore the stability-reducing effects of bulwark or brace, and in fact remove the entire bulwark/brace effect.

It's Evasion that is disrupted by enough instability (the exact amount required varies by pilot skill); the bulwark/brace effect is much more binary and is disabled by any and all physical attacks. A locust punch would disrupt it.