Buildings in Cicero

[Johan]

Another complaint about Imperator have been the lack of variation and flavour among the buildings you can build in a city, where we had 4 different ones.

In Cicero there will be 15 different ones, working like before, with the amount of population being the primary deciding how many building-levels you can have in a city. Each building can be built multiple times if you so desire, just like before.

• Training Camps +10% Manpower
• Fortress +1 Fort Level
• Barracks +20% Defensiveness, +20% Supply Limit
• Foundry +5% Starting Experience, +10 Recruit/Build Speed.
• Marketplace +33% Commerce Income from City
• Town Hall +10% Tax Income
• Court +2% City Monthly Loyalty
• Academy +2.5% Research Points, +0.5% Monthly Pop Promotion
• Temple +2% Same Religion Happiness, +0.5% Monthly Pop Conversion
• Granary +5 Population Capacity
• Library +2% Citizen Happiness, +2% Citizen Output
• Forum +2% Freemen Happiness, +2% Freemen Output
• Workshop +2% Slave Happiness, +2% Slave Output
• Theatre +2% Same Culture Happiness, +0.5% Monthly Pop Assimilation
• Aqueduct +1% Population Growth, +0.5 Migration Attraction

Stay tuned, in tomorrow’s development diary, we’ll be looking at the major changes for pops in Cicero.

 

[Lord Lambert]

Oh nice this is a huge improvement

 

[EpicProGamer76]

Will there be a building that encourages pop to migrate else where? Or can this be done through other means / is not as useful as I image.

Edit: Also how powerful do you lot think the foundry will be?

 

[Orome]

Oh nice this is a huge improvement

+1

Sounds awesome. Looking forward to tomorrow's dev diary.

 

[Vohen]

In Cicero there will be 15 different ones

Oof, 15? That's pretty awesome.

Just one thought: with these many buildings, why not add some available only for specific cultures, governments or even religions?
That might be an interesting way to differentiate nations and playstyles across the map.

 

[CrazyZombie]

Real TALL game is coming! Time to spam libraries!

 

[Akbar The Great]

Brilliant. This adds so much to the game.

 

[KHK001]

Great! I've been waiting for this.

 

[Uxigadur]

The more the merrier!
The theme are also quite cool.

 

[cristofolmc]

Monthly promotion assimilation and convertion and migration attractions. YES!!! Thats the way to go.

 

[Palando]

• Academy +2.5% Research Points, +0.5% Monthly Pop Promotion
• Temple +2% Same Religion Happiness, +0.5% Monthly Pop Conversion
• Theatre +2% Same Culture Happiness, +0.5% Monthly Pop Assimilation
• Aqueduct +1% Population Growth, +0.5 Migration Attraction

Victoria pop simulation here we go

 

[Rabid]

I like this in theory but isn't it going to get annoying to deal with once you're even medium size? The current system is so simple that you don't really need to think about what to build which is generally not great but does have the slight advantage of letting you spam buildings effortlessly.

Edit:

The implied changes to the pop system look fantastic, and a wider range of buildings is good; my only issue is the inevitable UX issues that are going to arise when you have many cities. Hopefully I'm being excessively cautious.

 

[Facepalm]

Looks nice.

I'll just add in that I think most buildings should increase the Civilization value. Don't have a great reason for it, but it kinda makes sense. Would be weird if they didn't.

Edit: I also think it would be cool if some of the buildings are tied to technology levels or inventions, it's the kind of advantage I'd expect for getting more tech.

 

[sr999]

Very clever buildings. In effect they allow not only optimization, but also city-specific mitigation of whatever's worrying you about a particular province.

(EDIT: many of these IMO should have have capital-city civilization level prerequisites, as well as small civilization level impacts on the city of construction)

That said, what bothers me slightly is: shouldn't it be the governor building them? There may be a conceptual inconsistency here. For the ruler to build certain of them outside the capital province, perhaps a small tyranny penalty is merited? (Possible exceptions: forts; and theatres built by Hellenistic monarchs, for whom cultural proselytization historically was their accepted "duty" and often obsession - although occasionally backfiring spectacularly, eg the Seleucids in Judea).

Buildings also theoretically "should" add to the popularity and prominence of whoever's building them (which frequently was at least half the point, which is why they often were financed partly or wholly from the private funds of the builder), whether in the capital or in the provinces - perhaps some events might trigger upon completion? Not always "nice" events: governor popularity being a rather dangerous phenomenon... Or more comedic events such as the statue of the ruler.

Construction-related event bonuses, if worked out comprehensively, might be used to (in aggregate) replace some or all of the simplistic "buying points" options (on the economy screen), which are mostly just abstractions for such infrastructure efforts.

 

[Chipmunk216]

Very clever buildings. In effect they allow not only optimization, but also city-specific mitigation of whatever's worrying you about a particular province.

(EDIT: many of these IMO should have have capital-city civilization level prerequisites, as well as small civilization level impacts on the city of construction)

That said, what bothers me slightly is: shouldn't it be the governor building them? There may be a conceptual inconsistency here. For the ruler to build certain of them outside the capital province, perhaps a small tyranny penalty is merited? (Possible exceptions: forts; and theatres built by Hellenistic monarchs, for whom cultural proselytization historically was their accepted "duty" and often obsession - although occasionally backfiring spectacularly, eg the Seleucids in Judea).

Buildings also theoretically "should" add to the popularity and prominence of whoever's building them (which frequently was at least half the point, which is why they often were financed partly or wholly from the private funds of the builder), whether in the capital or in the provinces - perhaps some events might trigger upon completion? Not always "nice" events: governor popularity being a rather dangerous phenomenon... Or more comedic events such as the statue of the ruler.

Construction-related event bonuses, if worked out comprehensively, might be used to (in aggregate) replace some or all of the simplistic "buying points" options (on the economy screen), which are mostly just abstractions for such infrastructure efforts.

Yes, these are very good suggestions.

Perhaps temples should also be tied to a particular religion type, so that you can have foreign temples that make pops of that type happier at the cost of preventing conversion to your own religion.

 

[starchitect]

This looks excellent. Particularly liking the buildings that give monthly conversion/assimilation/promotion.

Its great to see the level of work you and the entire team are putting into Cicero. Thank you for all the effort care and attention. It shows.

 

[Uxigadur]

I like this in theory but isn't it going to get annoying to deal with once you're even medium size? The current system is so simple that you don't really need to think about what to build which is generally not great but does have the slight advantage of letting you spam buildings effortlessly.

If they put more information on the macro builder i think it would be still a simple task. The data we got for the current buildings is ok, but these new buildings might need more. -It is a good problem.

Now i might be asking too much, but we have a suggest button for peace deals, if we were to have that in the macrobuilder, let's say i put 500 gold i want to spend and the system tell me which buildings are the best to build according to some rating from the data the macrobuilder get, ipush OK, it is done. It could be useful for when you are in a war time and have not a second to administration tasks.

 

[CrazyZombie]

I like this in theory but isn't it going to get annoying to deal with once you're even medium size? The current system is so simple that you don't really need to think about what to build which is generally not great but does have the slight advantage of letting you spam buildings effortlessly.

Yeah, you don't need to think. Just don't build anything except for fortresses and that's it.

 

[CrazyZombie]

@Johan any change in 1.2 to building roads process and their additional effects on economy, administrative integrity and etc?

It just feels weird that you have to pay with military power right now for stuff, that could be done for money.

 

[cristofolmc]

• Aqueduct +1% Population Growth, +0.5 Migration Attraction

Isnt this massively OP? With this, you could spam 3 aqueducts and you could have just a massive ultra city in 1 century And then you just spam granaries to upkeep them and thats it. Also, I think just like with development in EU4 or building costs in Meiou and Taxes, building cost scaling the more you have of them is a good anti snowballing measure. So reaching 70% tax income doesnt cost you as much as 10%. The reward is way bigger, but so is the cost.


Also, now we are finally gonna have huge tall tools but. I think city creation should not be so much based on city population as in pop migration. Pop didnt grow much during this period, and yet in the game pops grow by x4 which is ridiculous.


Also could we have different pop promotion and migration variables for each pop type for even more depth and specialization (even if only for modding purposes)? (A bit along the ideas of this mod in the making (links to the dev diaries of the mod on pop promotion and migration):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Imperator/comments/bny2cd/working_dynamic_promotiondemotion_prototype/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Imperator/comments/btqu4o/preview_2_pop_migration/

I do hope pop promotion and migration is influence by a lot of things to encourage tall decisions too The system outlined in the dev diaries linked above goes a long way.



Anyway, just some ideas. Keep up the good work. This is the way to go and what the people was expecting. Very excited for tomorrows dev diary and for 1.2 patch.