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incognitus

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Do you ever do it? I have (finally^^) researched the necessary tech as Japan in 1939 and I'm wandering if I should just use all my IC to "improve the world" by upgrading infrastructure (cause let's face it, any more troops I build now, will be just for show, really^^). Do you ever build infrastructure? Does it make a difference, considering how long it takes...?
 

Count Blue

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Do you ever do it? I have (finally^^) researched the necessary tech as Japan in 1939 and I'm wandering if I should just use all my IC to "improve the world" by upgrading infrastructure (cause let's face it, any more troops I build now, will be just for show, really^^). Do you ever build infrastructure? Does it make a difference, considering how long it takes...?

In the vanilla game it takes too long and the increase in practicals is to small so later runs are not much faster or cheaper.
I did still build level 10 "highways" (or railroads if you prefer) into russia usually on three axis.
Later I learned that supplies travel like they want so I tried also a "blanketed" approach. But as mentioned it takes ages.

Since I changed to BICE everyting is different, practicals as well as costs go down quickly in this mod and infra is much more important than in the vanilla game. So its a no brainer, one "must" increase infra when playing BICE.
 

incognitus

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So that means in Vanilla the game doesn't actually check Infrastructure levels before maping the supply paths, it just uses the shortest / random path and you have to be lucky to have improved the right provinces?
 

Kovax

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If you select the Supply map mode, you can see where your supplies are routed through. Any spots along the main arteries with low infrastructure can be a bottleneck for operations at the far end, so upgrading a few of the worst spots can be beneficial, without spending a huge chunk of IC on it. I won't waste IC to blanket an area with upgrades, but I definitely boost some of the weak points in almost every game, even with relatively weak minors if they ever finish researching the Industrial techs to unlock Advanced Construction.

The AI does consider Infrastructure levels to some degree, and will favor provinces with at least 6 (I think that's the cutoff point) over those with less. If you create a clear path with at least 6 Infrastructure per province, the AI will tend to use it, although it may still take "shortcuts" through considerably worse provinces on occasion, and may redraw the supply route any time your units at the front shift laterally across the lines of supply. As long as your divisions move back and forth toward or away from the supply hub, not sideways, the supply lines seem to hold pretty solidly.

If you build IC (as Germany, the Soviet Union, or the United States), your Construction Practical values should be fairly decent, and upgrading Infrastructure over a moderate area or in a long line shouldn't cost 2 random limbs. If not, then you should only build it where it actually presents (or will present) a problem, because it's expensive to do on a large scale with an IC-poor country. Basically, if playing GER, infrastructure upgrades in Poland are close to mandatory. As Japan, there are about a dozen or so provinces that you can upgrade to put a decent supply highway into the Chinese interior for a significant portion of your troops, without breaking the budget. Other troops will just have to make do with the limited supply that they can get, as there are more important things to spend your IC on once the US decides to pay you a visit.
 

incognitus

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What about those "Infrastructure too low" provinces. Can you actually build Infrastructure in those and make them accessible? In case it makes a difference, I would like to know both about the ones up north in Norway and Finland and those that have been entered to block supply paths.
 

Kovax

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If you own them, you can build up the infrastructure and make them accessible. Be mindful that supplying units on the other side of those blockages may prove to be a problem, if you suddenly have to send supplies overland from Tripoli or something, all the way down to South Africa. Other than for units in ports along the coast, all supplies will have to come from wherever the game sets as the supply depot for the entire contiguous landmass, and anything you send to a port or air field further downrange that's not used locally will get sent all the way back to the depot before being sent back again along the overburdened supply lanes.
 

Count Blue

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So that means in Vanilla the game doesn't actually check Infrastructure levels before maping the supply paths, it just uses the shortest / random path and you have to be lucky to have improved the right provinces?

Not really sure, observed data were never conclusive to me.
The supply system is a miracle and very difficiult to describe or control.

One can only watch the development of the supply system over time in the supply map.
The flow is usually a miracle. Its easier to see on faster game speeds.;)
 

Wraith11B

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I usually do as Germany for all of Poland... you need as little disruption to your supply lines as possible in the rear, and having level-10 infra as deep into hostile territory before Barbarossa kicks off is just a good plan.
 

Strategy-Fan

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If your Japan,take a look at this.
Beetwen idochina and Guahxas (that small chinese country at the south..blue flag and blue color)
If both of these are yours, you should notice that there is,a gap of roads beetwen these two.At infrastructure map mod there is nothing but black colour,all the way down to Yunnan boarder, more infrastructure is a must there.
 

Count Blue

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If your Japan,take a look at this.
Beetwen idochina and Guahxas (that small chinese country at the south..blue flag and blue color)
If both of these are yours, you should notice that there is,a gap of roads beetwen these two.At infrastructure map mod there is nothing but black colour,all the way down to Yunnan boarder, more infrastructure is a must there.

Be aware that gaps in infra are sometime a supply tactical measurement.
 

Palmerdale

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If you own them, you can build up the infrastructure and make them accessible. Be mindful that supplying units on the other side of those blockages may prove to be a problem, if you suddenly have to send supplies overland from Tripoli or something, all the way down to South Africa. Other than for units in ports along the coast, all supplies will have to come from wherever the game sets as the supply depot for the entire contiguous landmass, and anything you send to a port or air field further downrange that's not used locally will get sent all the way back to the depot before being sent back again along the overburdened supply lanes.

Doing this can also have unintended ramifications. As Italy, you've taken Egypt and the Holy Lands from the UK, and you decide to link the North and South along the Suez canal. It only takes one province. Only, when it's finished, all your supply for Africa now comes through Alexandria, a level 10 port. Also, the Ethiopians are free to roam, possibly attacking a US incursion near Casablanca, leaving the Ethiopian homeland unguarded. They will also roam to Syria and Iraq if you are fighting there. You can only control them so much (via target commands) and they tend to get in the way. Not to mention, the are rather useless units for fighting, They do excel at eating your supplies.
 

Count Blue

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Yep I agree.
Imagine you're fighting an army that has a poor navy, bur superior land units.
Such gap would "protect" you from their land units,or just make their job harder.

I meant something else.
A gap in infra can seperate two supply zones.
 

marxianTJ

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If you play Germany there is an incentive to build INFRA because it's the cheapest way in the game to increase your construction practical, which makes lots of things (like forts, coastal forts, air fields, naval bases, and factories) cheaper to produce in short order. Other nations have a harder time getting their construction practical up.

But all you really need to do to tell where your infra building will do the most good, is to position your units as if they were about to start a campaign, and then wait a few weeks, and then turn on supply map mode as is suggested above, and then build infra where the supplies have chosen to flow. It'll do wonders for you. It also means divisions along that better infra line will recover their org faster. Higher infra = better org recovery. In so far as I know this also applies to air units, so if you can manage it you want high infra in any tile that has an air field you intend to use.