building forts & airfields...

[unmerged(17541)]

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fortifications should get more abstracted - airfields should be in...


building improving forts and airfields should have the following additoinal effects:


when building fortifications they should always have automatically one INF unit

- increasing fort level quality / equipment / STR & ORG of this INF unit increases also...

- this basic defense unit will always stay in fort - means can't be moved, upgraded, disbanded, reinforced or completely destroyed

- and will get automatically but slowly reinforcements (3 STR per day)

- coastal forts should have an increasing chance to detect sea-based invasions (based on level of fort)


- airfield level - effects - build-time: (60 or 90 days build-time per level)

1 - fighters & dive can start and land - 30 days

2 - fighters & dive regain ORG when landed - 30 days

3 - fighters & dive regain STR when landed & TAC and Naval can start and land - 45 days

4 - automatic air recon in 50 miles range & TAC and Naval regain ORG when landed - 45 days

5 - Strategic & Transport can start and land & TAC and Naval regain STR when landed - 60 days

6 - automatic air recon in 100 miles range & Strategic & Transport regain ORG when landed - 60 days

7 - free automatic interceptor defense (see fortifications) - Strategic & Transport regain STR when landed - 90 days

8 - automatic air recon in 200 miles - 90 days

9 - Transport can start para ops & free imp. automatic interceptor defense - 120 days

10 - automatic air recon in 250 miles & free adv. automatic interceptor defense - 120 days


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[kionas76]

About forts i agree.Actually not long time ago i had an idea that required each fort level 1 will have some SA/HA/AA points that will get more after each level.That whould represent a static garrison and it whould solve the problem Japan and other Pacific countries had to put DIVISION to guard small islands.

for airfields i agree that there must be some sort of differentiation since it was ridiculus to see the US in HoI 1 gather 18 air units in a tiny Pacific island.However i think the air recon should exist to different percent for all airfields especially those with air units base without the need for player to command its unit do search every time like HoI 1 but i have said my idea in another currently active thread.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

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concerning airfields:

...having done an amount of investments in an airfield you just would let it completely unused...

...there would always be based a few air recon and interceptors...

...but certainly not on an divisional level...

...to reflect this I would always give a stationary based unit to an higher level airfield...


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[unmerged(12303)]

from the screenshots it looks that a form of airfields is in.

F

 

[unmerged(15623)]

Air reconnaissances should be tied to the air units, not to airflieds IMO. The better fields could enhance the recon abilities though.

 

[unmerged(32053)]

1 - fighters & dive can start and land - 30 days
Emergency airstrip can be built in matter of days (even hours). So - 5-7 days max.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Air reconnaissances should be tied to the air units, not to airflieds IMO. The better fields could enhance the recon abilities though.

...as stated above...-...can't imagine that there wouldn't be at least a few planes based on all major airfields...

so from my point of view a few recons and interceptors could be tied to airfields...

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[unmerged(17541)]

1 - fighters & dive can start and land - 30 days
Emergency airstrip can be built in matter of days (even hours). So - 5-7 days max.

...I thought about this in a more abstracted way...-...you also have to bring the ground crews, spare parts, fuel, supplies...- ...to the airstrips !

...and even nowadays you will need at least a month to rebase planes and make them operable...

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[unmerged(23487)]

I like your ideas... Very good IMO.

 

[Spruce]

I guess that - if airfields are included as a special improvement - it should give some bonusses to units attached to that airfield,

but provinces without airfields should also be able to host planes, but without bonusses,

I've seen pictures of the Britisch pilots during the battle of Britain. In some cases that airfield was nothing more then a long strip of open grassland that was stable enough to hold a running aircraft,

So perhaps hosting planes in an airfield give bonusses to org. recover, defenses during bombardment

 

[kionas76]

...I thought about this in a more abstracted way...-...you also have to bring the ground crews, spare parts, fuel, supplies...- ...to the airstrips !

...and even nowadays you will need at least a month to rebase planes and make them operable...

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Actually nowdays it takes much smaller time to do that.since everything can be packed in same size boxes,put in a transoprt plane and send to the new airfield/strip or whatever.
Do you actually beliave that when a crisies comes out USAF needs a month in order to be able for operations from un prepared base?I dont think they have so much time especially since air support is so vital for warfare.
BTW the airstrips used in Normandy after landing were made by using pro-constructed PSP and tents to accomodate the personal all made in matters of days(certainly not month).

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Actually nowdays it takes much smaller time to do that.since everything can be packed in same size boxes,put in a transoprt plane and send to the new airfield/strip or whatever.
Do you actually beliave that when a crisies comes out USAF needs a month in order to be able for operations from un prepared base?I dont think they have so much time especially since air support is so vital for warfare.
BTW the airstrips used in Normandy after landing were made by using pro-constructed PSP and tents to accomodate the personal all made in matters of days(certainly not month).

AFAIK all unprepared US air-operations in the first 20 to 40 days of any crisis started from carriers or were long range attacks with air-refuelling from existing based like Diego Garcia, Ramstein, Frankfurt/M, Incerlik (spelling?) or directly from mainland USA (with B2s)...-...but this shouldn't be part of the discussion...

...certainly it would be possible to make temporary airstrips partly operational in less then 30 days - but certainly not fully operational...

...from a gameplay point of view I would prefer 20 to 40 days to build level 1 airstrips...

...cause the way you can rebase airunits in HOI was quite an exploit !


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[kionas76]

cause the way you can rebase airunits in HOI was quite an exploit.

Actually its not an exploit.Planes in HoI1 loose 50% of org. its time they rebase.Also in European provinces(game has provinces not hexes)there is alsmot always atleast 1 airfield qualifing as a base so in that case even the 50% rebase penalty is too much.
So the question is mostly about small Pacific islands and North Africa(other place snot excluded but these qualify atmost).
Normandy and several pacific landing demonstrated the capacity of some nations to operate air units ASAP and certainly in smaller time then 30 days even when the landing place itself could be incide art. range of the enemy.
In those case the 50% is enought already.

The exploit in HoI 1 wasnt the way of rebasing.It was the number of units rebased all of them in a tiny place.Thus if different levels(small/medium/big)airfields can be made then i agree.
But the rebase procedure itself was ok atlest compared to other stuff.

 

[unmerged(32053)]

Hint: Planes can land and take off from the autobahns or just good roads. Not heavy bombers but almost all light planes.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Hint: Planes can land and take off from the autobahns or just good roads. Not heavy bombers but almost all light planes.

...certainly they could :wacko:


but as posted before - you need to:

- install some equipment to refuel, repair, supply planes
- bring fuel, supplies, ammunition, spareparts to the airstrip
- bring in the ground-crews doing this
- build barracks for these crews
- bring in some command structure
- and so on...

...to make an airfield fully operational


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[Dievs]

Well, but this all can be done in a week or something - as it was done historically, when needed.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Well, but this all can be done in a week or something - as it was done historically, when needed.

...depends on where you are: in europe - ok; on an island in the pacific - maybe when you can bring in all things needed per ship; on every province on the worldmap - certainly not !

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[Dievs]

Yes, it should depend on infrastructure value...
If the infrastructure is high, then you should be able to get all equipment there by train and be ready to launch within days, but if you have only desert, then you need to do some major improvements first, which should take quite a lot of time and supplies.

 

[unmerged(32053)]

- install some equipment to refuel, repair, supply planes
Couple of trucks for a squadron of interceptors. One transport plane will be good.

- bring fuel, supplies, ammunition, spareparts to the airstrip
Another couple of trucks.

- bring in the ground-crews doing this
One truck. Or transportation inside the planes.

- build barracks for these crews
Not needed. Crews and technical personal will use civilian buildings or tents.

- bring in some command structure
Car with radio.

- and so on...
Sorry, Im Russian, our Airforce have (gmmm... had...) plans to fly combat sorties even in case of total nuclear war. So.. I just cant get the point .

 

[unmerged(17541)]

- install some equipment to refuel, repair, supply planes
Couple of trucks for a squadron of interceptors. One transport plane will be good.

- bring fuel, supplies, ammunition, spareparts to the airstrip
Another couple of trucks.

- bring in the ground-crews doing this
One truck. Or transportation inside the planes.

- build barracks for these crews
Not needed. Crews and technical personal will use civilian buildings or tents.

- bring in some command structure
Car with radio.

- and so on...
Sorry, Im Russian, our Airforce have (gmmm... had...) plans to fly combat sorties even in case of total nuclear war. So.. I just cant get the point .

1st the definition of an HOI air unit is about 100 planes - so you will need more then one (!) truck for the ground crews !

when you just make a short rebasing trip with a 12er stack of strategic bombers we talk about ~ 12 x 100 x 7 (pilot, co, tail-gunner, and ~ 4 more men on the guns) 8400 men for the aircrews...

...ok and what do you think how many ground-crews you will need for refueling, repairing, reloading 1200 planes ?

...AFAIK an averager STR bomber has 4t payload: means you have to bring in 4800 tons of bombs for one attack ~ at least 120 trucks ...

...and don't forget the truck for the fuel ! :rofl:


and in HOI you can even make a quick rebase stop in the middle of nowhere !

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