Building Better Civil Wars

[Secret Master]

As part of the ongoing effort to model politics of the era in CK, I've started looking closely at the potential for event-driven civil wars. While at the moment, it seems impossible to have intra-kingdom feuds, I think I have managed to set up the basics of true civil wars, where you have something more than just individual vassals trying to break away.

The basic design theory behind these events is that when the loyalty of a vassal drops below 25%, there is a small chance that a civil war will be sparked. The chance is based on the vassal's traits, the liege's traits, laws, and whatnot. Then the vassal and the liege get to make choices, with consequences that might result in other vassals DOWing the liege as well.

The current basic events I've created assume the liege has royal preorgatory. Obviously, civil war events should be modified based on the ruling laws of the realm.

I'm looking for some feedback so we can really make civil wars to be something feared.

#A chance to conspire against your liege: Civil War Series 1: Vassal starts

character_event = { #You have found an opportunity to conspire against your liege. You can make a bid for the throne. What shall we do?
	id = 11000
	
	picture = “event_claim”
	
	trigger = 	{ 
		condition = { type = ruler }
		condition = { type = is_vassal }				
		condition = { type = not value = { type = loyalty value = 0.25 } }  
		 	 }
		condition = {
			type = liege
			condition = { type = has_law value = { royal_preorgatory_law = yes } }
		}


	mean_time_to_happen =  	{
		days = 30 #This may seem harsh, but remember this only fires when vassal loyalty drops below 25%. Thus it needs to fire quickly before loyalty increases make the window disappear.
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = proud } 
					factor = 0.5 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = selfish } 
					factor = 0.5 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = deceitful } 
					factor = 0.5 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = reckless } 
					factor = 0.5 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = naive_wirepuller } 
					factor = 0.8 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = flamboyant_schemer } 
					factor = 0.7 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = intricate_webweaver } 
					factor = 0.5 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = illusive_shadow } 
					factor = 0.2 
						}
				#Yes, the more traits held, the faster it will fire. May very well be instant for certain connniving vassals.
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = modest } 
					factor = 2 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = honest } 
					factor = 3 
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = trait value = coward } 
					factor = 10 
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = prestige value = 500 } 
							}
					factor = 2
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = not value = { prestige value = 200 } }
							}
					factor = .5
						}
				modifier = 	{ 
					condition = { type = has_law value = { elective_law = yes } } 
					factor = 5
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = trait value = coward } 
							}
					factor = .5
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = trait value = arbitrary } 
							}
					factor = .5
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = trait value = cruel } 
							}
					factor = .5
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = trait value = valorous } 
							}
					factor = 2
						}
				modifier = 	{
					condition = 	{ type = liege
						condition = { type = trait value = just } 
							}
					factor = 2
						}
				}

		action_a = 	{ #The Realm is mine!
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = prestige value = -100 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = prestige value = 100 } } #simulates potential rejection or acceptance of cause by others
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = -1.0 }
					effect { type = random chance = 50 { type = add_trait value = reckless } }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = add_trait value = deceitful } }
	 				effect { type = type = add_title_claim value = liege }
					effect { type = trigger for = liege value = 11001 } #Liege respone event
					
				}

		action_b = 	{ #Let us bide our time
	 				effect { type = type = add_title_claim value = liege }
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.2 }			
				}
		action_c = 	{ #No, I shall not commit treason
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.2 }
					effect { type = prestige value = 25 }
				}




}

#A vassal is making a bid for the throne! Civil War Series 1, Vassal Starts
character_event = { #One of our vassals is starting a civil war! What shall we do, my lord?

	id = 11001
	
	picture = “event_claim”
		
		action_a = 	{ #Crush all who oppose us!
					effect { type = random chance = 20 { type = add_trait value = vengeful } }
					effect { type = random chance = 20 { type = add_trait value = proud } }
					effect { type = random chance = 75 { type = trigger for = best_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 75 { type = trigger for = worst_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 75 { type = trigger for = random_vassal = 11003 } }
					effect { type = trigger for = best_son value = 11014 } #son response event
					effect { type = trigger for = worst_son value = 11014 } #son response event
					effect { type = trigger for = random_son = 11014 } #son response event
					effect { type = trigger for = spouse = 11015 } #spouse response event	
				}

		action_b = 	{ #Let us make concessions to avoid a conflict.					
					effect { type = add_trait value = coward }
					effect { type prestige value = -200 }
					effect { type = set_law value = traditional_custom }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = trigger for = best_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = trigger for = worst_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = trigger for = random_vassal = 11003 } }
					effect { type = trigger for = best_son value = 11012 } #son response event
					effect { type = trigger for = worst_son value = 11012 } #son response event
					effect { type = trigger for = random_son = 11012 } #son response event
					effect { type = trigger for = spouse = 11013 } #spouse response event	
				}

}



#Shall we join the fight against our liege? Civil War Series 1, Vassal reaction 

character_event = { #A civil war within the realm is brewing. Shall we join the fight against our liege?
	id = 11003
	
	picture = “event_claim”
	
		action_a = 	{ #Let us depose our liege
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = valorous } 
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = reckless }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = proud }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = decietful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = -1.0 }
	 				effect { type = type = add_title_claim value = liege }
					effect { type = trigger for = liege value = 11004 } #Liege response event
					
				}


		action_c = 	{ #No, I shall not commit treason
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = modest }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = wise }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = coward }
							factor = 2 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = honest }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.25 }
					effect { type = prestige value = 25 }
				}


}

#Another vassal is joining the fight against us! Civil War stage 4

character_event = { #Another vasssal is joining the fight against us in the civil war that is brewing.

	id = 11004
	
	picture = “event_claim”
		action_a = 	{ #Crush all who oppose us!
					effect { type = random chance = 25 { type = trigger for = best_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 25 { type = trigger for = worst_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 25 { type = trigger for = random_vassal = 11003 } }
					effect { type prestige value = 200 }
				}

		action_b = 	{ #Let us make concessions to avoid further conflict.					
					effect { type = random chance = 20 { type = add_trait value = coward } }
					effect { type prestige value = -200 }
					effect { type = set_law value = traditional_custom }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = trigger for = best_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = trigger for = worst_vassal value = 11003 } }
					effect { type = random chance = 10 { type = trigger for = random_vassal = 11003 } }
				}



}








#My father is a weakling! Civil War Event series 1

character_event = { #Your father has come under attack from his vassals; however, he has caved in and given concessions rather than fought back. How do you react?
	id = 11012
		action_a = 	{ #I can’t believe he did that! I am disgusted!
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = valorous } 
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = energetic }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = proud }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = vengeful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = -0.75 }
					effect { type = trigger for = father value = 11016 } #Father response event
					
				}


		action_c = 	{ #It was probably the best course of action
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = modest }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = merciful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = coward }
							factor = 2 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = lazy }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.25 }
					effect { type = prestige value = 25 }
					effect { type = trigger for = father value = 11018 } #Father response event
				}





}

#My spouse is a weakling! Civil War Event series 1

character_event = { #Your spouse has come under attack from one of his own relatives; however, he has caved in and given concessions rather than fought back. How do you react?

	id = 11013
		action_a = 	{ #I can’t believe he did that! I am disgusted!
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = valorous } 
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = energetic }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = proud }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = vengeful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = -0.75 }
					effect { type = trigger for = spouse value = 11017 } #Father response event
					
				}


		action_c = 	{ #It was probably the best course of action
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = modest }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = merciful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = coward }
							factor = 2 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = lazy }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.25 }
					effect { type = prestige value = 25 }
					effect { type = trigger for = spouse value = 11019 } #Father response event
				}





}


#My Father is under attack. Civil War series 1

character_event = { #Your father has come under attack by a relative who is trying to take the throne. Your father will fight back with his full fury. Shall you support him?

	id = 11014
		action_a = 	{ #I will stand by my father! Death to all who oppose him!
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = valorous } 
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = energetic }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = proud }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = vengeful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.50 }
					effect { type = prestige value = 25 }
					effect { type = trigger for = father value = 11018 } #Father response event
					
				}


		action_c = 	{ #Perhaps he has acted unwisely
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = modest }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = merciful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = coward }
							factor = 2 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = lazy }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = -0.25 }
					}



}

#I use separate events for spouse and sons only because the text inside the event window needs to be different.

#My spouse is under attack. Civil War series 1

character_event = { #Your spouse has come under attack by a relative who is trying to take the throne. He will fight back with his full fury. Shall you support him?

	id = 11015
		action_a = 	{ #I will stand by my husband! 
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = valorous } 
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = energetic }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = proud }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = vengeful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = 0.50 }
					effect { type = prestige value = 25 }
					effect { type = trigger for = father value = 11019 } #Spouse response event
					
				}


		action_c = 	{ #Perhaps he has acted unwisely
					ai_chance = 50
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = modest }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = merciful }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = coward }
							factor = 2 
								}
						modifier = 	{ 
							condition = { type = trait value = lazy }
							factor = 1.25 
								}
	 				effect { type = loyalty value = -0.25 }
					}



}




#Your son is disgusted with your spinelessness: Civil War Series 1

character_event = { #A son is disgusted with your spinelessness with regards to the civil war.

	id = 11016
	
	picture = “event_claim”
	immidiate = { #Damned if I do, damned if I don’t with this family…
		effect = { type = prestige value = -25 }
	}


}



#Your spouse is disgusted with your spinelessness: Civil War Series 1

character_event = { #Your own spouse is disgusted with your gutlessness with regards to the civil war.

	id = 11017
	
	picture = “event_claim”
	immidiate = { #Damned if I do, damned if I don’t with this family…
		effect = { type = prestige value = -25 }
	}


}


#Your son rallies to your cause: Civil War Series 2

character_event = { #A son has rallied to support you in the civil war with your own family.

	id = 11018
	
	picture = “event_claim”
	immidiate = { #That’s my boy!
		effect = { type = prestige value = 25 }
	}


}


#Your spouse rallies to your cause

character_event = { #Your spouse fully supports you in the civil war with your family.

	id = 11019
	
	picture = “event_claim”
	immidiate = { #She is my rock and stronghold in these dark times
		effect = { type = prestige value = 25 }
	}


}

 

[unmerged(36722)]

wow... that looks pretty scary! it would be interesting to test and see how it works....

 

[FrEDa]

I like the idea, and if it can be made to work in a good way I'm all for it. However, I've forgotten all about CK events so I can't comment on the code itself.

One thing though, is it possible to check for alliances in some way? If so that should be a modifier, both for the lord and the rebel. And what about claims? Did I understand correctly if all vassals who join get a claim on the lige title/titles?

/F

 

[unmerged(2456)]

you have a lot of events with action_a and action_c, but no action_b

 

[Nikolai]

Sounds good, I can't say anything on how the events work though, I have no idea on that field. Very interesing thing though, I hope and think it could give some more flavour to the game. But shouldn't this events(s) only fire if the vassal is bigger/mightier than a set strenght? I mean, no one province count with any intelligence would dare attack his liege if the liege isn't seriously weak. Perhaps the X strongest vassals or at least only the vassals with X strenght? 'Cause only the strongest vassals would have any might to do anything against his liege, like in the HRE historically.

 

[Secret Master]

I like the idea, and if it can be made to work in a good way I'm all for it. However, I've forgotten all about CK events so I can't comment on the code itself.

One thing though, is it possible to check for alliances in some way? If so that should be a modifier, both for the lord and the rebel. And what about claims? Did I understand correctly if all vassals who join get a claim on the lige title/titles?

/F

As far as I know, there is no check for alliances. If there is, then I'll use it liberally.

And yes, all these rebellious vassals get claims. This does two things. One, it assures that they will go to war against their liege when their loyalty is dropped to 0% (if they are AI). There is no way to force DOW, but this is pretty close. The other thing it does is prevent automatic re-pledging of allegiance.

And who knows, someone might just take the crown...

 

[Secret Master]

Sounds good, I can't say anything on how the events work though, I have no idea on that field. Very interesing thing though, I hope and think it could give some more flavour to the game. But shouldn't this events(s) only fire if the vassal is bigger/mightier than a set strenght? I mean, no one province count with any intelligence would dare attack his liege if the liege isn't seriously weak. Perhaps the X strongest vassals or at least only the vassals with X strenght? 'Cause only the strongest vassals would have any might to do anything against his liege, like in the HRE historically.

A problem is that there are only three kinds of triggers for vassals: best_vassal, worst_vassal, and random_vassal. Best vassal and worst vassal only target best and worst loyalty, not strength. Which means I can't really target powerful vassals. (I tried to do this with the original version of these events, which was intended for the Byzantines.)

It also means that there is no way to globally check all vassals in the realm for civil war. So, what I can't do is fire an event for every vassal and see if they want to betray their liege.

What this means is that some civil wars will just be fizzles when a few tiny vassals decide to have a go at you.

I also think the AI decisions on some of these need more modifiers to weight them. Suggestions on how to do it?

 

[Spruce]

I second the idea -

 

[unmerged(16588)]

Can you not check to see how much province income a given vassal has relative to the liege? An amount over X% making them be considered a strong vassal? Or is that what you were talking about re: not being able to check the strength of vassals?

 

[unmerged(36722)]

I also think the AI decisions on some of these need more modifiers to weight them. Suggestions on how to do it?

how about increasing the chance to rebel due to...

liege under 16 years of age
different culture
different religion
high badboy


and for increasing chance to not rebel due to...

liege over 16 years of age
same culture
same religion
low badboy

don't know if those can work.. but just some ideas...

 

[unmerged(36722)]

I have a question on this:

mean_time_to_happen = {
days = 30 #This may seem harsh, but remember this only fires when vassal loyalty drops below 25%. Thus it needs to fire quickly before loyalty increases make the window disappear.

I'm not really knowledgable in MTTH but it seems a bit harsh as you said. Especially since you have quite a few modifiers simulating the type of people who would want to rebel. So i don't know if bumping it up a bit might be good or not.

Just my 2 cents since, as I said earlier, I'm not an expert in MTTH.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I fear it might become huge spamfest and eventually for little effect, due to best_vassal and worst_vassal often being the same person from one event to another. Let's presume I go "Fight them" route, three of my vassals get reaction event, I get three reaction events and at worst case nine new reaction events back after Fighting them again. Also not to mention how triggering a total of 4 events for sons & spouse can give you 4 new events (in the not so unlikely case all your sons and your spouse are your courtiers), which again trigger 4 events for you.

I feel the approach I took in Byzantine Civil Wars in Intrigue Events would be better way to save player worst spam, while getting the effect of multiple vassals going zero loyalty at same time. If you want vassals to get claims too, you can replace the loyalty -1.0 with triggering an event to the vassal with loyalty reduction and adding claim.

 

[unmerged(40814)]

What this means is that some civil wars will just be fizzles when a few tiny vassals decide to have a go at you.

That seems reasonable since there were times when someone thought they could start an uprising found out they were going to go it alone (and usually get crushed in the process)

I also like the proposed modifiers, especially age of the liege. I'd like to see the breakaway events WAY more likely to happen in this manner too.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

My problem is that because this is suppose to similiate civil war with multiple son, multiple vassaled duchy/kingdom it will lead to massively horrible results if those criteria aren't met (say for an impotent Navarra ruler or Birtany.

Finally this means your neighbor can make a jump into the civil war and gobble up lots of land from the weaker party and there'd be no historic recourse. True civil wars often allowed enemies to take advantage, but if it looks to be as extreme as i think it would be, they'd likely, atleast temporarily, put aside their differeances to beat back the foriegn foe.