Building and fighting for maximum mech salvage

[Panpiper]

@Amechwarrior posted some very interesting advice on how to take down a mech without center torso destruction, which would give you the player maximum part salvage opportunity for that mech. I will quote his post below.

[Depending upon], where he is in the difficulty scale, enemy pilots have about 3 or 4 hit points. [You can] rack up 3 pilot hits in a row and maybe a 4th from random head shots to kill the pilot and get max salvage due to how the salvage system works.

First you use Precision Strike to do a called shot on a leg. This shot needs to be high damage. You don't care if you overkill in to the side torso, you actually want to pick a leg who's torso has ammo in it.

This knocks them down for 1 pilot hit.

Then, once it is fallen, you make normal called shots (saving morale) with the rest of your forces. Go for that torso you just cut the leg out from. With the leg gone, damage to the torso is more concentrated, if you get an ammo explosion it makes things easier.

This adds 1 injury. 2 Pilot hits total.

Once that side is gone, you make called shots to the other torso. This puts the 3rd injury on and that's game for Guts 3 or less. If they have 4 HP, you will need one more pilot hit to seal the deal.

What I am wondering is just what would be the best early mech configuration to do this sort of work.

The best I can come up with is perhaps a pair of 50 ton mechs. Give each of them a PPC and two SRM6s, with two tons of ammo. Top this off with four jump jets for maximum maneuverability, four extra heat sinks so they can get into range without already having heat buildup, and maximum armor so they can survive to do their jobs. The PPCs have great stability damage as do the SRMs.

This gives you mechs that can excel at knocking mechs down while still having a good, wide rage capability useful for most else as well.

Those are my thoughts. Does anyone else have other ideas, maybe better ideas? Are there any other tactics which might compliment that would increase the ability to achieve total mech salvage?

 

[Pineapple Salad]

I'm definitely going for a lot of SRMs. That stability damage can rack up some knockdowns even without blowing off any legs.

 

[Landran]

Autocannons, SRMs and LRMs with +bonus stability damage.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Lots of missiles for random headshots and knockdowns. Even a single glancing headshot puts you ahead of the game on taking out a pilot. After that, knockdown and side torso destruction (or either x2 for 4 wound pilots) makes the job a lot easier.

Too much concentrated firepower makes the job harder. As you might accidentally core the mech out. Going for side shots also helps.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Yeah, I think SRMs, LRMs and ACs are the way to go here. PPCs can get the job done, but are way underpowered imo.

This could be a pretty effective way to max chassis salvage if you manage to hit with your called shots. So probably even stronger in midgame when you have some better pilots.

 

[Kiiiddd]

Taking a Head clean off might be rare but killing a pilot if you know what you are doing will be super easy for a lot of players

Destroying a Side Torso = Injury
Doing Any Damage to the Head = Injury (mass SRM's or MG's will make this easy)
Ammo Explosion = Injury (once you know where ammo is stored on a mech or having something to refrence it will be easy)
Knock down = Injury (Super easy to do if you build for it)
I have been told too much heat can cause a Injury too

So early on(3 injuries) knocking both torsos off and getting a knock down will kill a pilot which shouldn't be hard
Mid game(4 injuries) you just need to score 1 random headshot and then take the ST's off and knock down or LRM for 2 knockdowns
Late game(5 injuries) Stuff will have lots of armor so Mass LRM knock downs will be very effective at Stun Locking mechs.

Or Rocking Grasshoppers with 7 MG's(Not really sure why Grasshoppers get 7 support slots, but they do) or Firestarters with 6 MG's or just Mass SRMs will cause quite a few headshots just from the raw number of shots you are put into a enemy, some are bound to hit the head

One other Option for later game is to Buy EVERY AC/10+ with bonus damage and just field alot of them, cuz they can one shot Cockpits. So if you can field 8 AC/10+ guns(2 a mech) you will be getting headshots by accident a decent amount

And you can always just legg mechs for 2 salvage which with proper positioning will be easy because with a side shot the basic shot's chance of hitting a leg is pretty high

LRM's will be good for Stab Damage but not headshots due to if the first missile of a launcher misses the head the remaining missiles CANNOT hit the head

 

[Amechwarrior]

As others have posted, massed SRMs or MGs are good for random head hits. I'd go with a + Stab SRM as added dmg may end up coring out your target. Here's how I'd kit out the starting Lance:

SDR-5V - No Change, but replace with something like a COM-2D for more missiles. If you are a light mech savant, you could try a dual MG SDR and hunt for ammo explosions and head hits.
VND-1R - No Change, maybe cram a LRM10 in there from the 5? Not sure about the heat on this one but it probably works.
BJ-1 - Either keep it stock or dual AC/5+2 ML. Similar total dmg, the dual 5s concentrate damage for 10 less total dmg
SHD-2H - SRMs + LL, max armor and max JJ. This is your knockdown unit with great melee and then SRMs. Don't be afraid to pack the missiles and run hot, as you can punch when you need to cool. When you come in for melee, make sure to punch the undamage side of the enemy and that the punch won't cleave the other leg with raw damage before you commit.

 

[Ciabola]

for the missile head hunting trick.. i think you need more individual launchers... ie 2 LRMs 5s is better than 1 LRM 10. Im totally going to test this out when i get my paws on this game.

 

[SnzKGB]

@Amechwarrior posted some very interesting advice on how to take down a mech without center torso destruction, which would give you the player maximum part salvage opportunity for that mech. I will quote his post below.

What I am wondering is just what would be the best early mech configuration to do this sort of work.

The best I can come up with is perhaps a pair of 50 ton mechs. Give each of them a PPC and two SRM6s, with two tons of ammo. Top this off with four jump jets for maximum maneuverability, four extra heat sinks so they can get into range without already having heat buildup, and maximum armor so they can survive to do their jobs. The PPCs have great stability damage as do the SRMs.

This gives you mechs that can excel at knocking mechs down while still having a good, wide rage capability useful for most else as well.

Those are my thoughts. Does anyone else have other ideas, maybe better ideas? Are there any other tactics which might compliment that would increase the ability to achieve total mech salvage?

SRMs combined with PPC seems like not so great idea, just because the difference in range.

 

[Kiiiddd]

for the missile head hunting trick.. i think you need more individual launchers... ie 2 LRMs 5s is better than 1 LRM 10. Im totally going to test this out when i get my paws on this game.

That will be just as effective as 2 med lasers for getting head hits. At the end of the day I wouldn't build a LRM setup for getting headshots, just for knock downs. Now LRM5's are the lightest so there is that, but definitely go a different route if you are trying to score random head hits

 

[Panpiper]

SRMs combined with PPC seems like not so great idea, just because the difference in range.

I have an extreme resistance to building one trick ponies. Mechs that are useless unless they are at short range is utterly anathema to me. I also tend to prefer mechs that are either all long range with good enough movement to stay there, or will have two completely separate sets of weaponry, one for short range and one for long range (a perfect example would be an LRM boat with medium lasers, which would fire either the lasers or the LRMs but not both).

Technically the equipment loadout I described above would fall into the category of two separate sets of weapons to use depending upon range, as either could be fired for minimal heat but firing both together would be high heat. You are correct though that for the purposes of taking out pilots, it might be better to have a long ranged weapon that does not take negatives for close range engagements, such as a large laser or an AC 10.

Looking again at design, a 50 ton mech could carry an AC10 with two tons of ammo and a single SRM6 with one ton of ammo. It would have only one extra heat sink, which would be adequate, and still have four jump jets and max armor.

 

[RecklessCaution]

How effective are MGs at getting head hits? Your best bet might be to do your damnedest to get ahold of a Firestarter and six MGs, then train up a pilot who can shoot before moving with the Lvl8 Piloting skill - Reserve down to Ini1, dakka, then at Ini4 (since you couldn't have gotten Master Tactician and the piloting skill) dakka again and GTFO. If you're worried about this pilot not contributing anything in other turns, give them Sensor Lock. If you stick to one ton of ammo or strip one of the MLs you should be able to max armour, if I've done the maths right. You can scale this up into a Grasshopper or Banshee, but then you're not getting the Initiative benefit of a Light.

Alternatively, load the Firestarter up with Flamers, use the same Initiative scheme, but overheat the 'Mech you want into shutdown, then hit a leg with the rest of your Lance. When it falls down, hit the other leg. This is dependent on limited Flamer charges (do we know how many we get yet? Three charges per flamer would only give you one guaranteed safe shutdown, and one more good chance. Hopefully it's four or five), and doesn't give you a full Mech, only two-thirds of one, but it might still be worth it.

EDIT: Hell, if you're going for a decent level of Tactics to give you Sensor Lock for other turns, that allows Called Shots to have a better chance of hitting their target. Six MGs from spending Morale for Precision Shot might just give you a free Mech straight up! Might be better to go for Master Tactician instead of the Piloting 8 skill in that case, so you can Reserve to 1, machine gun a pilot to death, and GTFO at Ini5!

 

[veevoir]

You can always vigilance for extra +1 initiative next round.

 

[Kiiiddd]

You can always vigilance for extra +1 initiative next round.

How will that help with maximizing salvage vs a Precision Strike???

I am very curious about this

 

[veevoir]

It helps with "last in turn 1-first in turn 2" tactics for non-light mechs. Granted, you do need morale for both skills, but it is not that hard (most streamers run around with full bar).

It is also often omitted effect of the skill (the fact that it gives a brace without finishing the turn is usually more important).

 

[HonorKnight]

... The PPCs have great stability damage as do the SRMs ...

If you had a stated goal of getting more glancing headshots for luck-based injuries, I'd have agreed with SRMs, but stability damage? No. With the latest build, LRMs and Autocannons are far superior for stability damage. SRMs were nerfed into the ground, and PPC were never particularly efficient at inflicting stability damage due to their massive heat cost (a heat cost which only got worse in the latest build). A single AC/10 shot or an LRM10 would do as much stability damage as a PPC for far less heat and - after accounting for needed heat sinks - less tonnage as well. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...en-in-the-latest-pre-release-streams.1086943/

P.S. I'm not advocating for LRM10s. As a rule LRM20s are the best size for use as a can-opener due to clustering. Massed LRM5s are best LRM size for extra head hit chances (still worse than even a medium laser, but among LRMs they're the best) or if you actively want to sandpaper rather than core someone out. In terms of just raw damage and stability relative to weight and heat LRMs 5, 15, and 20 are equally good, while LRM10s are uniquely bad relative to other LRMs due to a poor intersection of tonnage and heat. They should only be used if you don't have the tonnage for an LRM15+ nor the hardpoints for two LRM5s.

 

[NoDebate]

Alternatively, load the Firestarter up with Flamers, use the same Initiative scheme, but overheat the 'Mech you want into shutdown, then hit a leg with the rest of your Lance. When it falls down, hit the other leg. This is dependent on limited Flamer charges (do we know how many we get yet? Three charges per flamer would only give you one guaranteed safe shutdown, and one more good chance. Hopefully it's four or five), and doesn't give you a full Mech, only two-thirds of one, but it might still be worth it.

Reserve, 6 Flamers into 6 Flamers is 120 Heat. Overheat + Leg KD + Side Torso Pop. Any MechWarrior that is sub 5 Guts will be incap'd. That's 3/3 Salvage.

Three charges or not, I find this to be the best way to farm anything sub-Assault. By the time you are circulating enough tonnage to fight Assaults, you have other assets to reliably shoot legs.

 

[Frank E]

If you want to do stability damage at range, a PPC isn't that bad, it does twice the stability damage of an AC/5. But if all you're worried about is stability damage, a LRM will do a better job. LRMs and AC/20s are, imo, the two best weapons for doing stability damage right now. But from testing during the beta, a knockdown lance is good at killing mechs but not that good at maximizing salvage.

The best way that I've found to try and maximize salvage is to attack from the side. A side attack means that about 1/3 of the damage you do will be done to the leg on that side. So if you can concentrate fire on one side, you have a good chance of taking out a leg and knocking down the target. Then, you can target the other leg for the kill.

 

[FireStoat]

From what little I've seen from the streams involving the early game, the best plan appears to be maximizing your damage and lance synergy so that you can do a mission and end it with no internal structure damage taken so you can zip off to the next mission instantly - no repair costs assigned. I'll be watching streamers and the like while I play when the game launches but I think I'll be aiming for 'best mission outcome' builds. Especially while I'm learning the game.

 

[nimdabew]

for the missile head hunting trick.. i think you need more individual launchers... ie 2 LRMs 5s is better than 1 LRM 10. Im totally going to test this out when i get my paws on this game.

Yeah. 5 LRM5's on a kintaro and 4 tons of ammo (18 rounds of fire I think) is heat neutral with the engine heat sinks. It is going to be my scalper mech. 5 chances for a head hit, but it doesn't do a whole lot of damage but still a fair amount of stab damage.