Tech increasing ground_def_eff benefits the enemy instead
Yes, that's right! There are three techs in HOI that increase the effect of individual ground_defense points:
#1205, Basic Divisional Signal Command System
#1501, Improved Divisional Signal Command System
#1802, Advanced Divisional Signal Command System
Each one has the command:
effects = {
command = { type = ground_def_eff value = 5 } # Defense points have an additional 5% chance of deflecting hits.
}
But the comment in the file is wrong, the bonus actually works in reverse. The base chance of deflecting a hit with one ground_defense point is apparently somewhere between 75 and 80 % (we're still trying to figure out exactly what the value is, see the "Combat damage" thread in the scenarios forum). When you apply the first tech, your chance stays the same but your opponent's chance gets increased by 5 %. Same for the second and third techs.
Mikel was the first one to notice this, and he did some tests in which he increased the deflection chance to over 100 %. In each case, the enemy unit took zero or almost zero hits, while the unit owning the new tech took the same proportion of hits as always.
I have since confirmed that it really does work this way, and discovered that you can edit the file to say "ground_def_eff = -5". If you do that, the effect reverses. Now your enemy has a lower chance of deflecting a hit, while your chance remains the same.
So for all modders and even mildly ambitious do-it-yourselfers out there -- run, do not walk, to your infantry tech file and change this! Not only have you been buying a tech that benefits the enemy, but the AI has helplessly been buying it as well.
And for Paradox: guys, my personal recommendation is that you do the same. DON'T change the code so that the tech increases your own ground_def_eff, leave it so it affects the enemy, just get Vulture or someone to tweak the tech files as described above, and tweak the description so it's clear what the tech really does. If you're worried about a big impact on play balance, nerf the effect down to 2 % instead of 5 %.
Why? Because if you're a modder, this is a golden opportunity. We've always had a way to add ground defense points, to make our own units stronger in defense; having the ability to increase ground_def_eff as well seemed kind of redundant and until now nobody really paid much attention to the details of how it worked.
But now, players can buy techs that will increase their defense, OR buy techs that will help burn through the defense of the other side -- whatever they prefer. It really opens up some design possibilities. There might even be techs that have the side effect of actually increasing enemy ground defense effectiveness -- for example, in the late war period, you might opt to shorten training times for your units across the board, making them cheaper, but you take a +5 hit to ground_def_eff. It's much more flexible this way.
Yes, that's right! There are three techs in HOI that increase the effect of individual ground_defense points:
#1205, Basic Divisional Signal Command System
#1501, Improved Divisional Signal Command System
#1802, Advanced Divisional Signal Command System
Each one has the command:
effects = {
command = { type = ground_def_eff value = 5 } # Defense points have an additional 5% chance of deflecting hits.
}
But the comment in the file is wrong, the bonus actually works in reverse. The base chance of deflecting a hit with one ground_defense point is apparently somewhere between 75 and 80 % (we're still trying to figure out exactly what the value is, see the "Combat damage" thread in the scenarios forum). When you apply the first tech, your chance stays the same but your opponent's chance gets increased by 5 %. Same for the second and third techs.
Mikel was the first one to notice this, and he did some tests in which he increased the deflection chance to over 100 %. In each case, the enemy unit took zero or almost zero hits, while the unit owning the new tech took the same proportion of hits as always.
I have since confirmed that it really does work this way, and discovered that you can edit the file to say "ground_def_eff = -5". If you do that, the effect reverses. Now your enemy has a lower chance of deflecting a hit, while your chance remains the same.
So for all modders and even mildly ambitious do-it-yourselfers out there -- run, do not walk, to your infantry tech file and change this! Not only have you been buying a tech that benefits the enemy, but the AI has helplessly been buying it as well.
And for Paradox: guys, my personal recommendation is that you do the same. DON'T change the code so that the tech increases your own ground_def_eff, leave it so it affects the enemy, just get Vulture or someone to tweak the tech files as described above, and tweak the description so it's clear what the tech really does. If you're worried about a big impact on play balance, nerf the effect down to 2 % instead of 5 %.
Why? Because if you're a modder, this is a golden opportunity. We've always had a way to add ground defense points, to make our own units stronger in defense; having the ability to increase ground_def_eff as well seemed kind of redundant and until now nobody really paid much attention to the details of how it worked.
But now, players can buy techs that will increase their defense, OR buy techs that will help burn through the defense of the other side -- whatever they prefer. It really opens up some design possibilities. There might even be techs that have the side effect of actually increasing enemy ground defense effectiveness -- for example, in the late war period, you might opt to shorten training times for your units across the board, making them cheaper, but you take a +5 hit to ground_def_eff. It's much more flexible this way.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Vulture, can you keep us posted here is you are going to change this is 1.05c so we know how we can use this in C.O.R.E.? Thanks
