Bug playing with Galicia (Spain)

[reignerok]

Due to a bug, I've been able to play with Kingdom of Galicia. As the game presented it, is independent and a kingdom, so I should be able to change crown laws (crown power and bishop election). But my surprise is that I am not able to change it, but I can see Kingdom of León crown laws, so I think there's some kind of vassalization between both kingdoms, but Galicia is showed as a independent one.

P.S. I'm not sure if I should tell here the bug to choose any country. I will do whatever admins/mods tell me to do.

 

[unmerged(433027)]

I think its because Galicia is a titular kingdom not a de jure kingdom.

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

Due to a bug, I've been able to play with Kingdom of Galicia. As the game presented it, is independent and a kingdom, so I should be able to change crown laws (crown power and bishop election). But my surprise is that I am not able to change it, but I can see Kingdom of León crown laws, so I think there's some kind of vassalization between both kingdoms, but Galicia is showed as a independent one.

P.S. I'm not sure if I should tell here the bug to choose any country. I will do whatever admins/mods tell me to do.

The bug to choose any country has already been released. The mods know it and many of the users know it.

Not sure what is up with Galicia though.

 

[reignerok]

I think its because Galicia is a titular kingdom not a de jure kingdom.

But anyway is a independent kingdom at that moment and with no lords, so the king should be able to change the laws.

The bug to choose any country has already been released. The mods know it and many of the users know it.

Not sure what is up with Galicia though.

OK.

 

[unmerged(418271)]

But anyway is a independent kingdom at that moment and with no lords, so the king should be able to change the laws.

Crown laws apply to de jure kingdoms and everyone in them including independent rulers. Only the king of the de jure kingdom can change the laws.

 

[reignerok]

So then it's not a bug but, in my opinion, it's wrong. How must an independent kingdom obbey another kingdom's laws?

 

[unmerged(179107)]

So then it's not a bug but, in my opinion, it's wrong. How must an independent kingdom obbey another kingdom's laws?

Bohemia - HRE
Burgundy - HRE

 

[Me_]

Bohemia - HRE
Burgundy - HRE

HRE is an Empire, not a Kingdom.

On the main topic: I'm pretty sure that Galicia does not "obey" the laws of Leon, it does not pay any taxes and does not provide troops to Leon. It functions like an independent duchy, only it cannot be a vassal of a King and gets some of the King-level bonuses (e.g. can vassalise duchies).

As a side note: what happens to the titular kingdom if it loses all of its land? Does a "King of Galicia" keeps existing without land or does it disappears completely?

 

[soran]

this has me thinking: why stop us of forming our own kingdoms and empires and causing a decade-long war with other kingdoms over de jure borders?

 

[Darrigan]

Galicia is a titular title. That means it has no de jure land. Since the devs have decided that Galicia didn't exist long enough to be a de jure kingdom, they have added its lands to the kingdom of Léon. I don't really see the big trouble in it. There are many titular titles in the game...

If you want to play a titular title, go ahead. Try to acquire another kingdom, while making the titular title your primary one. Voila: You are king of Galicia and get to mess around with crown laws.

 

[reignerok]

If you want to play a titular title, go ahead. Try to acquire another kingdom, while making the titular title your primary one. Voila: You are king of Galicia and get to mess around with crown laws.

But any independent country should be able to get its own laws without having to mess with workarounds.

 

[Me_]

Galicia is a titular title. That means it has no de jure land. Since the devs have decided that Galicia didn't exist long enough to be a de jure kingdom, they have added its lands to the kingdom of Léon. I don't really see the big trouble in it. There are many titular titles in the game...

If you want to play a titular title, go ahead. Try to acquire another kingdom, while making the titular title your primary one. Voila: You are king of Galicia and get to mess around with crown laws.

It just occured to me that this creates a big problem for the Latin Empire. Since it's titular it doesn't have crown laws and since it's an empire you can't create any kingdoms with it. So the only way for the Latin Empire to gain crown laws is to inherit a kingdom.

 

[Ruwaard]

It just occured to me that this creates a big problem for the Latin Empire. Since it's titular it doesn't have crown laws and since it's an empire you can't create any kingdoms with it. So the only way for the Latin Empire to gain crown laws is to inherit a kingdom.

Since the Latin Empire is created from lands of the Eastern Roman 'Byzantine' Empire, the territories of the Latin Empire will be subjected to 'Byzantine' law, just as lands of the titular kingdom of Galicia follow Leonese (and some Portuguese) laws. These titular kingdoms aren't able to set crown laws, but they will be able to vote on law changes proposed by the ruler of 'de jure' kingdom.
In a way it is similar to the situation of the French holdings of the Norman and later Angevin king of England; he is also a king in those territories, but the French crown laws still apply for these lands.
Another example are vassal kingdoms of the empire within the 'de jure imperial borders', which will follow the imperial crown laws.

 

[Me_]

Since the Latin Empire is created from lands of the Eastern Roman 'Byzantine' Empire, the territories of the Latin Empire will be subjected to 'Byzantine' law, just as lands of the titular kingdom of Galicia follow Leonese (and some Portuguese) laws. These titular kingdoms aren't able to set crown laws, but they will be able to vote on law changes proposed by the ruler of 'de jure' kingdom.
In a way it is similar to the situation of the French holdings of the Norman and later Angevin king of England; he is also a king in those territories, but the French crown laws still apply for these lands.
Another example are vassal kingdoms of the empire within the 'de jure imperial borders', which will follow the imperial crown laws.

But what if the Muslims annex the Byzantine Emperor? Then you'll be left as an Empire without any Crown Laws whatsoever, yours or anyone else's. I know that the game will just go on, it's just the fact that this would be rather strange - an Emperor who can't even do what the kings can. In fact if one of your vassals creates Kingdom of Byzantium you'd be left as something practicly lower than your vassal.

 

[Ruwaard]

But what if the Muslims annex the Byzantine Emperor? Then you'll be left as an Empire without any Crown Laws whatsoever, yours or anyone else's. I know that the game will just go on, it's just the fact that this would be rather strange - an Emperor who can't even do what the kings can. In fact if one of your vassals creates Kingdom of Byzantium you'd be left as something practicly lower than your vassal.

If the Byzantine Imperial throne would become vacant, then you just keep the laws, which were in place before that happened. It would be like the situation of the various independent dukes in the initially uncreated kingdom of Rus'.

IIRC the kingdom of Byzantium, since it is a kingdom within the 'de jure' borders of the Byzantine Empire, they will also have to follow the Byzantine Imperial Crown Laws.

 

[Fjoelsvider]

if they got completely conquered by muslims wouldnt they henceforth have that kingdoms crown laws?

and how come when the hre conqueres say sicily (the three provinces on the tip of the shoe ^^) those provinces follow imperial law?

 

[the_blackraider]

Due to a bug, I've been able to play with Kingdom of Galicia. As the game presented it, is independent and a kingdom, so I should be able to change crown laws (crown power and bishop election). But my surprise is that I am not able to change it, but I can see Kingdom of León crown laws, so I think there's some kind of vassalization between both kingdoms, but Galicia is showed as a independent one.

P.S. I'm not sure if I should tell here the bug to choose any country. I will do whatever admins/mods tell me to do.

I've started one match with Galicia and appear to be a de jure kingdom of Kingdom of Leon. Perhaps this could be cause the kings of Leon and Galicia pertain to the same dinasty and the Leon branch are more legitimate or something similar?

 

[Fjoelsvider]

to me it happend as kingdom of leon and kingdom of castille, although both times i did kill the king of galicia and inherited, so maybe its connected after all... i really should think first write then ^^

 

[Secret Master]

I'm pretty sure the ability of titular kingdoms (and empires, I imagine), to change laws was removed because of the weirdness involved with overlapping authority with de jure kingdoms. It's already pretty complicated when kingdoms, empires, and de jure borders all come into conflict and the game has to decide what laws apply (you've seen nothing until you've seen the legal loopholes I put into place to ensure I could make war on fellow Byzantine vassals).

I think there was a version a long time ago where titular kingdoms had their own crown laws. If my memory serves, it was a real mess in Iberia.

 

[rashtrakut]

I've started one match with Galicia and appear to be a de jure kingdom of Kingdom of Leon. Perhaps this could be cause the kings of Leon and Galicia pertain to the same dinasty and the Leon branch are more legitimate or something similar?

Galicia pretty much disappeared as a separate entity in 1071. After that ony a couple of Castilian kings specifically listed Galicia as a title. At the start of the game Galicia, Leon and Castille are all brothers (the sister is countess of Zamora and another one is a mayor in the game). Leon and Castile dispossessed poor Garcia in 1071 and then the King of Castile was killed in murky circumstances to leave Alfonso as the sole ruler..