[BUG.. or not?] Cities Skylines Traffic.. serious issues!!

[stefanhbs]

I'm not going to join the discussion about the quality of the traffic AI anymore. I'll just leave this screenshot in here for people who want to fix their traffic problems instead of / before waiting for a change in the AI behavior. Here's how the AI works, and how you can use this to your advantage (works on a smaller scale as well).;

According to this, a tool to specify the direction of single lanes on a road may be really powerful dealing with the issues caused by the AI lane preferences and may be easier to implement, what do you think?

 

[FlyingRoss]

According to this, a tool to specify the direction of single lanes on a road may be really powerful dealing with the issues caused by the AI lane preferences and may be easier to implement, what do you think?

Made a Video of how this looks like in game and how AI behaves

[video=youtube_share;Ysr0w4PzARc]http://youtu.be/Ysr0w4PzARc[/video]

 

[Co_Karoliina]

Vehicles choose the right lane for their purpose fairly early. In the first message all the vehicles are going the same way from the next intersection, so they queue on the lane that allows them to go that way. During development we tried having cars use all lanes and just switch to the one they really want very late, but that created a HUGE mess, the turning cars blocked two lanes and didn't let cars behind them proceed. The one lane queue looks funny, but actually works quite well. Even if the cars would be on all lanes, they could not all fit to the street they are going, so the traffic jam still tells you of something being wrong with your road system

 

[WizoneDE]

@Fyling Ross, CO

nice that this is working, but in real world nobody would use a 6 to 2 splitt to get the traffic using the right lanes

by the way. as you can see in the video , only 4 of the 6 lanes are now in use, so you have now two empty never used lanes. if this is the wanted way, CO should add a 4 lane onway roadpart , or as others says, add a buslane to the road

 

[trigorin]

Vehicles choose the right lane for their purpose fairly early. In the first message all the vehicles are going the same way from the next intersection, so they queue on the lane that allows them to go that way. During development we tried having cars use all lanes and just switch to the one they really want very late, but that created a HUGE mess, the turning cars blocked two lanes and didn't let cars behind them proceed. The one lane queue looks funny, but actually works quite well. Even if the cars would be on all lanes, they could not all fit to the street they are going, so the traffic jam still tells you of something being wrong with your road system

I can buy it. However what are your thoughts about not making cars disappear from traffic in a jam but making them recalculate their route from that point they get stucked? So the "stucked too long" event would be handled by a recalculation instead of disappearing?

 

[XiDragon]

Vehicles choose the right lane for their purpose fairly early. In the first message all the vehicles are going the same way from the next intersection, so they queue on the lane that allows them to go that way. During development we tried having cars use all lanes and just switch to the one they really want very late, but that created a HUGE mess, the turning cars blocked two lanes and didn't let cars behind them proceed. The one lane queue looks funny, but actually works quite well. Even if the cars would be on all lanes, they could not all fit to the street they are going, so the traffic jam still tells you of something being wrong with your road system

The only thing this tells me is that there is something wrong with the game! And this is because I as the player do have to bend my mind in unnatural ways to understand how the AI in this game handles the road network! This is not intuitive! I do not say that one can't adjust, but at least for me it is not fun to play like this. Combined with the "Workers do not need to get to their workplaces"-problem this game becomes for me as a player to whom it is an integral part of a city builder to build and maintain a proper and challenging road network more and more unplayable.

 

[BStyles]

It's not something that's wrong with the game, more along the lines of the Unity Engine handling information by pre-planning routes. Having people cut across two lanes to turn (although widely done lol) would probably lead to more traffic accidents in game, if there were any. It's more of "they've come to terms with it" and I can live with that now. I won't go quietly, but I'll live with it.

However, even if switching lanes is out of the question, based on road congestion, there should be a way for cars/cims to analyze that a road is congested and try an alternative route, in conjunction with the street grid, if the mayor revamps it, and regardless if the route is longer than the initial one. Disappearing helps sometimes, but I'd like to see a few cims take alternate routes, and some sort of domino effect occurs, like they're late to work because of traffic issues creating alternates.

 

[Gibbins]

show me a real city without crossroads...

Milton Keynes, a "new town" in the UK that was planned from scratch, much the the same way as we do in game.

 

[IVIaarten]

@Fyling Ross, CO

nice that this is working, but in real world nobody would use a 6 to 2 splitt to get the traffic using the right lanes

Actually, if you look at large intersections with turning lanes, it's actually used a LOT. I've seen quite a few intersections where a two-lane road gets 2 sets of double turning lanes.

 

[Imgran]

I called your overall road layout a workaround. The fact that they were u-turning was quite a specific problem that no-one else cares about because it's not relevant to them.

By workaround, I mean "proper design" based on a knowledge of the game mechanics and not a knowledge of real life or obvious solutions.

You know what Sparky? This is a game and games have mechanics and rules. You can either whine or you can play the game. I know which one you've been doing and I know which I prefer.

I've been able to solve every single traffic problem I've had in my cities not by exploiting game mechanics, but by simple observation and adjustment.

Take the time to watch your traffic and try to understand why the bottlenecks are happening, and then freaking make an adjustment. It's not hard. And yes, this IS relevant to the discussion of the AI, because the AI can in fact be managed properly. And it doesn't take vast mental gymnastics OR turning your city into Gridville USA to do it. Just understand what you're looking at and learn how to really observe traffic flow. Once you do that it's easy to identify problems and adjust, whether that means more mass transit, more/wider connections, a new highway exchange, or a well placed two lane road to bleed off enough traffic before it even reaches the choke point.

You'd be doing the same thing even if they fine-tuned the traffic AI to have different problems (you're programming a simulation, fine tuning it to have NO problems is unlikely to be an option) so I really don't get why this is such an issue for you.

 

[IVIaarten]

Just understand what you're looking at and learn how to really observe traffic flow. Once you do that it's easy to identify problems and adjust, whether that means more mass transit, more/wider connections, a new highway exchange, or a well placed two lane road to bleed off enough traffic before it even reaches the choke point.

I agree with this. Look at what is causing problems, and fix it. No gridsville needed at all. Here's my current region. I has 0 traffic problems. I haven't needed to use 6 lanes (either 1 or 2 way) anywhere so far. No subways either, and just a single railway track.:

 

[Imgran]

Now that said I use Gridville USA and I like it. Mass spam of 2 lane roads is great for keeping traffic distribution nonlethal for most of your map since they divert traffic and make sure it's not all flowing in vun und precizely vun direction, it's great for mass transit, and of course I liven things up with plenty of parks. The grid has a lot to recommend it.

One thing that helps a lot that no one seems to think of is placing a Cargo Rail Station next to your primary commercial districts. It makes a big difference. Most of my factories went the way of the uneducated dodo, so most of my cargo right now is vanspam but I kept my cargo to support my commercial, so placing cargo terminals near commercial will guarantee that they always have something to sell plus keeping the vanspam off my precious two lane roads.

 

[Agent cooper]

The only thing this tells me is that there is something wrong with the game! And this is because I as the player do have to bend my mind in unnatural ways to understand how the AI in this game handles the road network! This is not intuitive!

I'm sorry but the traffic AI is very simple and completely logical. Since all cars have the same speed it does make no sense for them to change lanes unnecessaryly. They won't be one millisecond faster at their destination, on the contrary: they would have to switch back in the right lane and to achieve that they either have to stop and wait for a gap or the other lane would have to stop and let it in. Both would make your traffic worse. The cims decide for their perfect lane. You just have to give it to them by providing the right type of road.

 

[trigorin]

I'm sorry but the traffic AI is very simple and completely logical. Since all cars have the same speed it does make no sense for them to change lanes unnecessaryly. They won't be one millisecond faster at their destination, on the contrary: they would have to switch back in the right lane and to achieve that they either have to stop and wait for a gap or the other lane would have to stop and let it in. Both would make your traffic worse. The cims decide for their perfect lane. You just have to give it to them by providing the right type of road.

I see a lot of cases that cars who will turn to right at the second junction change already to the most right lane getting stucked by cars who intend to turn right as well but in the first junction. However there's an empty lane next to them that drives easily to the second junction. Hardly would say it logical

 

[Agent cooper]

According to this, a tool to specify the direction of single lanes on a road may be really powerful dealing with the issues caused by the AI lane preferences and may be easier to implement, what do you think?

You don't need that tool because you can already do it by using the right type of road. For example: If you have a 6 lane road and you want to have all lanes be used, you either have to have three roads going off in three different directions that have for themselves roads going off at at least two different directions. Or you have to have two 3 lane roads going off in two different directions that have for themselves going off three roads at three different directions.
Sounds more complicated than it is. In the first example the far left lane would be used by cars that turn left and then left again. The second left lane would be used by cars that go left and next right, the left middle lane would be used by cars that go straight and next left, the right middle lane would be used by cars that go straight and right next, the second right lane would be used by cars that go right and next left and the far right lane would be used by cars that go right and right again.
The cims try to avoid changing lanes as much as possible because that is what keeps the traffic flowing.

 

[Agent cooper]

I see a lot of cases that cars who will turn to right at the second junction change already to the most right lane getting stucked by cars who intend to turn right as well but in the first junction. However there's an empty lane next to them that drives easily to the second junction. Hardly would say it logical

Then you built the wrong road. They shouldn't have to get into the right lane. They either should be in the right lane from beginning or they shouldn't be "allowed" to use it until the second junction. Both is possible by using the right roads and junctions.

 

[lightrail]

Look at the arrows in the lanes. They are all in the only lane you have to go straight. Nothing wrong with the traffic AI, you just have a design bottleneck. Try a 2 or 6 lane one-way road, or a three-lane highway piece after the intersection so that you have more lanes for going straight. Or open up a new route.

 

[trigorin]

You don't need that tool because you can already do it by using the right type of road. For example: If you have a 6 lane road and you want to have all lanes be used, you either have to have three roads going off in three different directions that have for themselves roads going off at at least two different directions. Or you have to have two 3 lane roads going off in two different directions that have for themselves going off three roads at three different directions.
Sounds more complicated than it is. In the first example the far left lane would be used by cars that turn left and then left again. The second left lane would be used by cars that go left and next right, the left middle lane would be used by cars that go straight and next left, the right middle lane would be used by cars that go straight and right next, the second right lane would be used by cars that go right and next left and the far right lane would be used by cars that go right and right again.
The cims try to avoid changing lanes as much as possible because that is what keeps the traffic flowing.

While that makes sense, unfortunately I experience the opposite thing with two-lane one-way roundabouts. See my previous post.

 

[Wakeupcall]

Its not buggy - you have to be mindful of where your people are going... if they all need to go the same direction then you need to figure out how to disperse them in other ways. Its one of the best parts of the simulation for me

 

[Sotrax]

I can't say it often enough .. if we could decide which lane turns in which direction, we could control the traffic flow even without building huge amount of one-way roads or changes in the core AI.