BUG: NEW: FIXED: Knights should get core on Malta

[Hypnotoad]

Knights ---> Malta

I have seen lots of talk about the order moves to Malta event on the forums but a thing that certainly should be altered, or added rather to the event is to add a core at Malta for the Knights when they get it.

The Maltese weren't overjoyed with having the order at Malta at first but they joined forces against their common enemy, the Turks. The Turkish pirates and corsairs raided the islands of Malta many times during the 16th century and even kidnapped and enslaved entire villages before the Knights moved there.

 

[AndrewT]

Fair enough, done. Do you think they should lose the core on Rhodes at the same time? Did they ever try to recover it once lost?

 

[Hypnotoad]

No they never recovered it, but they initially planned it.

The event in the game isn't exactly historical either since the knights had lost Rhodes some 8 years before they were offered Malta by the Spanish king.
With Malta they also received the Seaport of Tripoli in North Africa. Tripoli was a christian outpost in the middle of moslem North Africa at this time. (Be cool if this could also be worked into the event but Spain would have to own Tripoli in the game for it to work).

When they first came to Malta they didn't like what they saw at all, no fertile land to farm and mostly rock. Only a few springs of fresh water in the middle of the island existed, water had to be stored in cisterns. Wood was hard to come by, cow dung and thistles was used as fuel for cooking.
But the knights had not much choice since they desperately seeked a new home. They longed back to the fertile and fruitful Rhodes, "one of the lovliest islands in the Mediterranian". They abandoned all these plans after the great siege of Malta 1635. They were there to stay.

Back to the event, since it isn't really historical it's hard to say. But they should probably lose the core on Rhodes in the "accept Malta and become vassal of Spain" option and keep it in the "accept Malta but do not become vassal" option since they do keep Greek as culture in that one. Maybe Spanish culture should be added to them when they accept to become vassals, most of the soldiers that defended in the great siege of 1635 were Spanish and it was the Spanish that came to help them end the siege. The Viceroy of Sicily (vassal of Spain) was in charge of the relief force and is consisted of almost Spanish regulars from Spain's Italian provinces.

Hope that helps

 

[DPS]

I agree, they should only keep the core on Rhodes if they don't become a Spanish vassal. However, I don't think becoming a Spanish vassal should give them Spanish culture.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I agree with the suggestion they should become Spanish vassals since this will help stop them entering utterly weird alliances with Lithuania or Scotland or someone, as they often seem to do.
I also think though, that the event should trigger only if the Knights currently don't exist - if they're not homeless, why would the Spanish king suddenly offer them Malta when they don't need it?

 

[Hive]

I also think though, that the event should trigger only if the Knights currently don't exist - if they're not homeless, why would the Spanish king suddenly offer them Malta when they don't need it?

That's my major problem with the event too...

Now people will probably say "but then they will get Spanish maps, if created from Spain"... but so what, really?

 

[DPS]

I agree with the suggestion they should become Spanish vassals since this will help stop them entering utterly weird alliances with Lithuania or Scotland or someone, as they often seem to do.

That's already in the game. When the event triggers, they have the option of either accept Malta and become a Spanish vassal, or to accept Malta without becoming a vassal. If they become a vassal (and it's the A or historical choice, BTW) they lose Greek culture, but get improved relations with Spain and the Papacy, a gain in stability, and IIRC, some money. If they don't become vassals, they keep Greek culture, but take a hit to their relations with Spain and the Papacy, get a stability hit, and get a revolt on Malta itself.

 

[AndrewT]

I agree, they should only keep the core on Rhodes if they don't become a Spanish vassal

OK, that's implemented too. Thanks folks!

 

[Hypnotoad]

One other thing that sometimes bothers me when playing as the Knights is that they are so very poor. Its quite hard to wage any kind of war without going bankrupt. The Knights owned huge estates around Europe and like half of the orders members very always away handling these. They also recived funds from the Pope and other catholic countrys. There are some events in the game that adds cash for them but it isn't much. Maybe the tax income on Rhodes and Malta should be upped slightly to compensate.

What i was thinking about when i wrote that maybe they should get iberian culture when becomming vassals of Spain is that 2 of the orders 8 Langues, chapters, were in fact Spanish (The Langues of Castile and Aragon). The French had 3 (France, Provance, Auvergne) and had by far the biggest number of knights, Italy had one Langue but had more members then the Spanish together. But still a big number of knights came from Spain and as i see it they should have iberian culture from the beginning since they get french and italian. The other 2 Langues were the German and English. The English that had converted to protestant were forbidden by Queen Elisabeth to join the Knights and by the siege of 1565 that Langue only had one member left. The Germans had also very few members.
Since they don't get iberian from the start i thought that they probably should at least get it from the becomming vassals of Spain event.

 

[BiB]

The Knights should not get the ability to rule all of France, Italy and Spain without much problems just because they had some members who spoke those languages.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Well have you ever seen them even own lands in ither of those areas? No that never happens, except maybe for a province in italy now and then. Having the capital on an island isn't very helpful when trying to conquer anything.

However that wasn't the point, historically they should have iberian as much as they have french and italian. That what was i was thinking about not if they could rule Spain or not.

 

[BiB]

So for the ai it doesn't change much but it does enable the player to build exactly such an empire so overall there's only a drawback.

They shouldn't exactly have French or Italian either anyway.