Bug(?): Driven Assimilators cannot use subjugation casus belli

[ChupaNahBrah]

I got the subjugation casus belli after demanding a tribute but the only possible war goal is assimilation. I tried the console command (war 0 4 wg_subjugation) and it said I declared war on the AI but a war didn't actually start.

Given the IMMENSE penalties for going over the administration cap this means robot consciousness (at least assimilators) are a pretty bad choice IMO because you will always have to directly control your territory instead of getting resources from your vassals

 

[Talanic]

I got the subjugation casus belli after demanding a tribute but the only possible war goal is assimilation. I tried the console command (war 0 4 wg_subjugation) and it said I declared war on the AI but a war didn't actually start.

Given the IMMENSE penalties for going over the administration cap this means robot consciousness (at least assimilators) are a pretty bad choice IMO because you will always have to directly control your territory instead of getting resources from your vassals

Well...you could try Borg style? Canonically, they don't keep most worlds they take, they just take the population and go. Nihilistic Acquisition is apparently much stronger than it used to be.

Also, the penalties for going over administrative cap don't seem to count as immense to me. Do Assimilators have it worse?

 

[ChupaNahBrah]

the penalties for going over administrative cap don't seem to count as immense to me.

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic but I'm talking about 600/250 admin capacity which isn't hard to get after 1 or 2 wars. This effectively doubles the cost of technology along with the other downsides.

Not being able to subjugate other empires (and being unwilling to have 1000/300 admin capacity) means that In my current game the fallen empire will win because their score is slightly higher and I can'y get a last second boost in score by having powerful subjects.

 

[Ludek]

Never tried it but maybe you could conquer territory and then release it as vassals?

 

[Badesumofu]

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic but I'm talking about 600/250 admin capacity which isn't hard to get after 1 or 2 wars. This effectively doubles the cost of technology along with the other downsides.

Your empire is 140% bigger than it would be if you had no penalty, but your tech cost is only 105% increased. Sounds like a good deal to me, and the value gets better the further over the cap you go. Increase your empire size by another 350 and you'll increase your tech cost by 50% from what it is now but your empire will be 58% bigger than it is now.

Tech-wise it's always worth getting bigger.

Edit to add that 250 is a really high admin cap, and the maths in favour of getting bigger become even more appealing at more typical admin caps.

 

[ChupaNahBrah]

Tech-wise it's always worth getting bigger.

How is it worth it? I already have more resources than I can use and the only thing keeping the fallen empire ahead of me in score is their technology level. So wouldn’t it be better to abandon a bunch of systems and keep my research rate as high as possible before the endgame?

In case it matters I have a fully built ring world and multiple machine worlds so I don’t need to expand for more planets.

 

[Gratak]

How is it worth it? I already have more resources than I can use and the only thing keeping the fallen empire ahead of me in score is their technology level. So wouldn’t it be better to abandon a bunch of systems and keep my research rate as high as possible before the endgame?

In case it matters I have a fully built ring world and multiple machine worlds so I don’t need to expand for more planets.

Well you can get more tech income from the new planets. Much more extra income than the penalty increases the cost.

Imho, the tech penalty of empire sprawl is quite a bit too low atm.

On the other hand, the extra upkeep of rulers is too high. You really pay insane amounts of money to your governors as a wide empire.

Though I can understand you wanting them as vassals instead: The micro of so many planets is just INSANE. Also the costs during assimilation are pretty high.

 

[Badesumofu]

How is it worth it? I already have more resources than I can use and the only thing keeping the fallen empire ahead of me in score is their technology level. So wouldn’t it be better to abandon a bunch of systems and keep my research rate as high as possible before the endgame?

In case it matters I have a fully built ring world and multiple machine worlds so I don’t need to expand for more planets.

You don't have more resources than you can use. Ever.

The best way to keep your tech level high is to expand and make sure you keep a relatively high proportion of tech-worlds. If you double your empire size you should be able to at least double your research production while your penalty increases by something less than double.

If your view is that it doesn't matter whether you optimise or not because you're powerful enough already then why are we even having this conversation? Just take the space and don't concern yourself with whether or how much it strengthens you.

 

[ChupaNahBrah]

Just take the space and don't concern yourself with whether or how much it strengthens you.

My concern was that the tech penalties were hurting me more than the extra building spaces were helping but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

One thing that was hurting me is that I went very tall and probably don’t have enough total research buildings.

Back to the main topic: is being unable to use the subjugate war goal a known bug? Any ideas for a workaround other than assimilating (huge energy/food cost) and then releasing as vassals (not sure if I can even do that since I haven’t tried yet)

 

[Gratak]

My concern was that the tech penalties were hurting me more than the extra building spaces were helping but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

One thing that was hurting me is that I went very tall and probably don’t have enough total research buildings.

Back to the main topic: is being unable to use the subjugate war goal a known bug? Any ideas for a workaround other than assimilating (huge energy/food cost) and then releasing as vassals (not sure if I can even do that since I haven’t tried yet)

I think that total war CBs always disable all other CBs. Reason being, that the total war mechanic makes all other CBs useless and your enemy could simply choose total war even if you had declared with another CB.

 

[Mastikator]

How is it worth it? I already have more resources than I can use and the only thing keeping the fallen empire ahead of me in score is their technology level. So wouldn’t it be better to abandon a bunch of systems and keep my research rate as high as possible before the endgame?

In case it matters I have a fully built ring world and multiple machine worlds so I don’t need to expand for more planets.

It costs +.3% tech and +.5% unity for every 1 point of admin cap.

So assuming worst case scenario you have 0 admin cap if you double your size you double your tech and unity but only increase cost by 30% and 50% respectively. And this only becomes MORE generous if you have higher cap and more sprawl.

The way it works now is that the wider the base of the pyramid the taller the peak.

 

[Duuk]

Driven assimiliators shouldn't be able to use subjugation CB. Subjugation is futile, they must be assimilated.

 

[IIWBIIMars]

Driven Assimilators should not be able to just subjugate other species.

Assimilating other species is the main reason for their existence, it´s what drives them to continue forward.

Therefore Driven Assimilators.

 

[Duuk]

Side note:

I'm not being snarky. The bonuses to conquest, build speed, growth, etc that Driven Assimilators get in-game is based on their inspirational basis. Their trope is from the sci-fi setting of things like the Borg from Star Trek.

"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated."

Driven assimilators don't subjugate, vassalize, ally with, cuddle, or acknowledge other empires.

 

[TheTam]

Given the IMMENSE penalties for going over the administration cap

Just ignore admin cap

 

[ChupaNahBrah]

Thanks for the help everyone. It seems like I just need to make sure I keep building research buildings as my cap increases and I should be fine.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

On the topic of the original question, Driven Assimilators do not get any war goal except for the Assimilation war goal for the same reason Fanatical Purifiers do not get any war goal except the Purification war goal, the entire philosophy of these empires revolves around Total War. This is not a bug. It is working as designed. The actual bug seems to be that you can demand tribute in the first place.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

On the topic of the original question, Driven Assimilators do not get any war goal except for the Assimilation war goal for the same reason Fanatical Purifiers do not get any war goal except the Purification war goal, the entire philosophy of these empires revolves around Total War. This is not a bug. It is working as designed. The actual bug seems to be that you can demand tribute in the first place.

Could it be that vassalisation/tribute just applies to other machine intelligences ?

 

[Badesumofu]

I think it's intended that you can ask other empires to be your vassal as DA, but you shouldn't really get the CB. Or the UI shouldn't mistakenly tell you that you got the CB.

 

[makaramus]

it is to prevent weird "total war vs other cb" problem
in total war cb terrority you occupy instantly transfered to you
but how should it work with other cbs? yea thats problem
when you have access to total war CB others have same cb aganist you
because of this game not allowing you to use any other cb when you can use Total war.

not sure but... are you able to create vassals? if so you may want to do that
also going wide is allways better
not sure if you are megacorp but it is allways better as long as you can use things you have
if you got too much mats then replace your buildings with labs