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Dec 13, 2003
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Capturing enemy capital destroys economy

I'm playing 1.06 as Finland. The Wehrmacht is driving the Soviets to the Urals so I finally have enough troops available to push those damn Norwegians to the Atlantic ocean.

Everything is fine until I reach Oslo: http://koti.mbnet.fi/tsorl/hoibug1.jpg

This is the situation afterwards: http://koti.mbnet.fi/tsorl/hoibug2.jpg

:confused:

I should get their resources, but instead my coal and oil stockpiles collapse to about 100 and -47000 (!!!), respectively. Of course, my IC's come crumbling down as well. Needless to say, that game is pretty much ruined. :mad:

Maybe Norway's economy runs on antimatter or something. ;)
 
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tsorl said:
I'm playing 1.06 as Finland. The Wehrmacht is driving the Soviets to the Urals so I finally have enough troops available to push those damn Norwegians to the Atlantic ocean.

Everything is fine until I reach Oslo: http://koti.mbnet.fi/tsorl/hoibug1.jpg

This is the situation afterwards: http://koti.mbnet.fi/tsorl/hoibug2.jpg

:confused:

I should get their resources, but instead my coal and oil stockpiles collapse to about 100 and -47000 (!!!), respectively. Of course, my IC's come crumbling down as well. Needless to say, that game is pretty much ruined. :mad:

Maybe Norway's economy runs on antimatter or something. ;)
Hmm, looks like either you stole half the negative resources the AI had, or the game fails to do a bounds check on the resources you gained, resulting in it wrapping around to the negatives.

The resource numbers should be unsigned integers, mr programmers :p
 

Choctaws Coach

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-200K oil in 1.06?

Hey all - bit of a n00b here, first post and all. I've been playing HoI and reading posts in this forum for about six months.

I'm playing newly installed 1.06 (over a clean install) w/ pic pack, playing Germany (started in 1936) ... it's 1943, I'm holding back the Soviets on the Eastern front (barely) and preparing to go after the Brits.

Everything's cool ... then suddenly I go from approx 550 IC to 14 IC? Then I finally noticed Germany's oil reserves ... *negative* 200,000 (or somewhere around that number -- you can't see all the digits) ... I waited, clicked a bunch of different things (hoping it was a hiccup) ... no dice. I assume that this is a bug, right? Anybody know anything about this?

:confused:
 

unmerged(17709)

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It might be a bug. I can't see any reason(unless you have an army of 50,000 divisions)why you go from an oil surplus to -200k. But, in the economic ledger, how much oil is your industry consuming?
 

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Deskjet6734 said:
this aint over!

lol come out with your hands up. ANything you say or do can be held against you in a court of law :)
 

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jmazur said:
It might be a bug. I can't see any reason(unless you have an army of 50,000 divisions)why you go from an oil surplus to -200k. But, in the economic ledger, how much oil is your industry consuming?

Boy, my first post and a freakin troll has to butt in lol ...

Thanks for the quick response jmazur ... so, anyway, to answer your question, I reloaded the game from a month or so before the problem started.

Oil: 1185 in reserve, producing 21, armed forces are using 172. Do industries use oil? I've got a 0.0 in the ledger for that ...

Coal: I've got 93K coal in reserve, producing 2350, industries require 1164 -- so this makes up for the oil problem (w/ coal being converted to oil at a 0.50 ratio).

I've only got < 60 mot/mech/armored divisions. So, yeah, maybe there might be a resource problem of some kind happening, but IMO jumping from these numbers to -200k oil has got to be a bug.

I hadn't saved the game since I reloaded it so it's no more than going back to the save game a month earlier -- but what if this happens again? This game is awesome but requires a ton of time (and we give it our tons of time precisely because it's so awesome) and I'd sure hate to face this bug on a sporadic basis. Maybe it's a once-in-a-blue-moon deal? I've only had four or five CTD since I started playing, so if it's that rare I guess I can live with it ...

Anyone else?
 

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Oh, boy, this is weirder than I thought. I went back in and ramped up to top speed to see if I could catch it again. I did, same time, same circumstances.

Here's more details: at the time this problem hits, the oil surplus drops from approx 1000 to approx -20K (now that I look closer it appears to be -20K rather than -200K but really what's the difference lol) ... at the *same* time, I also drop from a coal surplus of 85K or so down to 1200?

And the IC is 14 now, as I mentioned, so this game is more or less hosed ...

So what triggered this? Only thing I know to tell you is it happened at exactly the same time I finished building 12 new destroyers, even before they were deployed. Maybe this will help ...
 

Maximilian I

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looks like a mean bug...
 

unmerged(12612)

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Maximilian I said:
looks like a mean bug...

In 1.05c, negative stockpiles of resources worked as follows; I'm not sure whether 1.06 has changed it; but it seems that some change was made.

In 1.05c, a country's coal, steel or rubber stockpile could go below zero, but the production of just one unit of these resources during the following day would send the stockpile into positive territory, regardless of how big the deficit. So let's say that Norway had -10,000 steel on day 1. If Norway produces just one unit of steel, Norway will have zero steel on day 2. As long as 24 hours passed before the conquering country took the capital, the conquering country would not get the negative coal, steel or rubber stockpile.

Oil worked differently for some reason. Negative oil stockpiles did not go positive with next-day production. Negative oil stockpiles remained negative until that country produced or imported enough to overcome the deficit. If, for example, Norway had -10,000 oil on day 1, and produced 100 units of oil per day, then on day 2 Norway will have -9,900 units of oil. A country that conquers Norway's capital would acquire the -9,900 oil.

My suggestion to Paradox for a fix is to prohibit conquering countries from obtaining ANY resources from a captured capital. Firstly, capitals that give large resource stockpiles to conquering nations are easily exploited by players. Germany needs steel? Just conquer little Luxembourg and get 99,999 units! Second, the notion that a country's entire resource stockpile would be located in one location is far fetched. Lastly, it would be very easy for modders to create events that grant resources to conquering nations once the capital is captured. This is superior to the current system because it allows us to more easily control what quantities a conquering country gets.
 

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DogRed said:
In 1.05c, negative stockpiles of resources worked as follows; I'm not sure whether 1.06 has changed it; but it seems that some change was made.

In 1.05c, a country's coal, steel or rubber stockpile could go below zero, but the production of just one unit of these resources during the following day would send the stockpile into positive territory, regardless of how big the deficit. So let's say that Norway had -10,000 steel on day 1. If Norway produces just one unit of steel, Norway will have zero steel on day 2. As long as 24 hours passed before the conquering country took the capital, the conquering country would not get the negative coal, steel or rubber stockpile.

Oil worked differently for some reason. Negative oil stockpiles did not go positive with next-day production. Negative oil stockpiles remained negative until that country produced or imported enough to overcome the deficit. If, for example, Norway had -10,000 oil on day 1, and produced 100 units of oil per day, then on day 2 Norway will have -9,900 units of oil. A country that conquers Norway's capital would acquire the -9,900 oil.

Okay, I'll go you one better. This may or may not be the same bug but the results, sadly, were very similar.

I'm playing newly installed 1.06 (over a clean install) w/ pic pack, playing Germany (started in 1936) ... it's 1943, I'm holding back the Soviets on the Eastern front (barely) and preparing to go after the Brits.

Everything's cool ...

Oil: 1185 in reserve, producing 21, armed forces are using 172.

Coal: I've got 93K coal in reserve, producing 2350, industries require 1164 -- so this makes up for the oil problem (w/ coal being converted to oil at a 0.50 ratio).

I've only got < 60 mot/mech/armored divisions.

... then suddenly I go from approx 550 IC to 14 IC? Then I finally noticed Germany's oil reserves ... *negative* 250,000 (or somewhere around that number -- you can't see all the digits) ... I waited for several game days/weeks, clicked a bunch of different things (hoping it was a hiccup) ... no dice.

So I reloaded and ramped up to top speed to see if I could catch it again. I did, same time, same circumstances.

Here's more details: at the time this problem hits, the oil surplus drops from approx 1000 to approx -250K ... at the very *same* time, I also drop from a coal surplus of 85K or so down to 1200?

And the IC is again 14 now, as I mentioned, so this game is more or less hosed ...

So what triggered this? I did NOT take an enemy capital ... the only thing I know to tell you is this bizzaro deal happened at exactly the same time I finished building 12 new destroyers (even before they were deployed). Maybe this will help ...
 

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YokoZar said:
Did you seize a capital by any chance? There's a thread about this in the bug forum.

No I didn't YokoZar but thank you for mentioning this. I checked that thread in the bug forum and have added to it, because even tho that bug's trigger is apparently very different -- capturing a capital vs. building destroyers -- the results were very, very similar: lost coal resources and seriously negative oil resources.
 

unmerged(27608)

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Apr 6, 2004
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I had the exact same problem as Germany in 36 scenario around 41 or so. Wasn't doing too well on building up the ecomony and once my oil hit zero, it dropped to negative 25,000 or so. Tried reloading from the autosave and every time I hit 0, it dropped negative, but the amount was different every time. Guess I need to work on the economy a bit more, but would love to hear there is an easy fix out there someplace. I played the 1.05 patches for a long time and never had the problem- just showed up with 1.06.
 

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coal-rubber conversion...

550 IC ~ 275 rubber per day... what was your conversion? i.e col was .5, if rubber was .25, then for every rubber, you'd need... 8 coal... so 8*275=2200 coal a day... in addition to running industry, AND your tanks/planes/whatever... THEN when the coal is out, -500 oil a day... did you watch the days that closely on very fast? I remember when I first started playing and that happened to me... didn't realize about all conversions and what industry needed.

or it could be a bug... I'll check out the bug forum.
 

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Mar 21, 2003
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Choctaws Coach said:
Hey all - bit of a n00b here, first post and all. I've been playing HoI and reading posts in this forum for about six months.

I'm playing newly installed 1.06 (over a clean install) w/ pic pack, playing Germany (started in 1936) ... it's 1943, I'm holding back the Soviets on the Eastern front (barely) and preparing to go after the Brits.

Everything's cool ... then suddenly I go from approx 550 IC to 14 IC? Then I finally noticed Germany's oil reserves ... *negative* 200,000 (or somewhere around that number -- you can't see all the digits) ... I waited, clicked a bunch of different things (hoping it was a hiccup) ... no dice. I assume that this is a bug, right? Anybody know anything about this?
The same thing happend to me as Japan. Reload solved it though.
 

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It happened to me too : playing as Germany, I invaded England and set up a convoy to bring oil and supply there. Soon after, my oil went to -200k. I decided to ignore it for a while, hoping it would fix itself, and eventually (about two month later) it did. Then the next day it went back to -200k, and a few weeks later to -400k. I also noticed that my convoy was conveying -200k oil per day... I took London, then the new English capital in Edinburgh, hoping British stocks might solve the problem, to no avail. On the plus side, my out-of-oil tanks (improved medium 70mm) were still defeating the English in every battle :)

In the end, I ordered my convoy to stop carrying oil (just in case), saved, and edited the save file to give myself a positive amount of oil, and have had no trouble since...
 

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Capturing London also gives a big hit on your resouces.
Definately seems like a bug, or is it constructed that way so the player should not want to take London?