BUG #2670 : Cannot invade US colonies in Africa in a colonial war

[The Yogi]

Cannot invade US colonies in Africa in a colonial war

I think there might be a problem with Colonial wars and US claimed colonies.

In my current game, I have seen them work as they should (USA just took Santa Fe, Albuquerque and Roswell from CSA in a colonial war, 1887) but I myself (Germany) have been unable to invade any US colonies in Africa in a colonial war. I do have many colonies myself, mostly in Africa, and I also annexed Oman early in the game (as Prussia) in a Colonial War.

I have no problem with invading the Colonies of France, Britain or Portugal in Colonial Wars. It's just USA that I cannot invade.

America holds colonies in Congo, Nigeria, Djibouti and West Africa.

I can provide a saved game if desired.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Are they colonies or states? USA has African minor culture and could have granted them all statehood

 

[The Yogi]

That would explain it then!

Checking the saved game file, I noticed that these colonies were all set to colony = no, meaning that they were states, not colonies. I wasn't aware of the possibility of a colony becoming a state, only a dominion.

So I guess this is WaD then, but, in all fairness, giving african_minor culture to USA doesn't seem appropiate, and not only because of this kind of strangeness.

 

[Derek Pullem]

In general I agree with you but in the USA's case we have the real life example of Liberia as the very thing you are complaining about. So actually I like it as it is.

 

[The Yogi]

Well, Liberia is a special case, and it was never a State of the Union, was it? The thing with Liberia was that it was founded by African-American emigrants, which could hardly be the case with all and any African Minor state.

 

[Derek Pullem]

In game terms it was founded by African Minor POPs returning to Africa. In the occupied African states the same POPs exist. If the uSA had colonised Africa it would presumably have been with the same goal in mind i.e. eventual satellite status and independence as per Liberia.

Giving them statehood is the closest we can get in the game. Simulates a protective USA - attack outr colonies and you attack us. I'll check but I think this is working as designed

 

[The Yogi]

Liberia was created as a haven for American ex-slaves. I doubt the same goal could have been applicable to the rest of Africa, it is after all a damn big piece of land. Normal colonisation and eventual dominion status seems perfectly adequate.

 

[IEX Totalview]

Originally posted by Derek Pullem
In game terms it was founded by African Minor POPs returning to Africa. In the occupied African states the same POPs exist. If the uSA had colonised Africa it would presumably have been with the same goal in mind i.e. eventual satellite status and independence as per Liberia.

Giving them statehood is the closest we can get in the game. Simulates a protective USA - attack outr colonies and you attack us. I'll check but I think this is working as designed

I disagree completely. Liberia was not a "colony" in Anglo-French terms, but it was nowhere near a state either.

But let's look at it in gameplay terms:

The U.S. using its African Minor culture to create states in Africa means:

1) It can make it's African colonies immune from colonial wars

2) It can industrialize the area - huge advantage, and ahistorical

3) If it ever did social reforms, African states would see full benefits of those reforms - bloody unlikely IRL

4) Even if the manpower from colonies/manpower from foriegn cultures making home culture units exploits were removed, the U.S. could still use its state granting ability and African Minor culture to use West Africa as a nice manpower pool, something no other Western power could do.

All of the above put the U.S. in an ahistorically good position just because it had a large slave population and was thus granted African Minor culture.

The solution, IMO, is to remove U.S. African Minor culture or make it seperate from the culture in West Africa. The U.S. treated its "African Minors" fairly horribly throughout the era, and doesn't deserve African Minor culture any more than Great Britain deserves Irish culture.

 

[ptan54]

Totally agree.

"Let's expand our haven for slaves in Africa!"

"OK lets colonise the entire continent and attack anyone who gets in our way!"

"Damn Brits are stopping us from expanding our haven in South Africa! Declare war on Britain immediately!"

Add also the lynching, Jim Crow laws and how marginalised the blacks were, and I cannot see how you can possibly justify the USA getting African minor as a state culture when clearly the authorities thought less of them than whites.

As for US eventually giving independence to their "colonies", no, because

1 - They would not have founded these African colonies in the first place, so any "what if they colonised Africa" comments make no sense.

2 - Ignoring 1 for the moment, what is the rationale for this colonisation if you are going to give them independence?

3 - The US in the game clearly colonises to ASSIMILATE Africa into the Union, not to grant it satellite status.

If you are going to give USA the advantage of ASSIMILATING Africa into itself, this is total madness and must be altered.

 

[unmerged(23158)]

I realize this is completely restricting for alternate reality stuff, but why not place a restriction on USA's ability to colonize? After all, historically the US did not claim lands in Africa, Asia or elsewhere and was substantially different than most colonial powers when it comes to the Phillipines and Cuba. Those would be 'vassal states', rather than colonial holdings.
Somehow, the USA (or CSA) or any South American state holding colonial lands in Africa and Asia just seems wrong, and against the typically accepted cultural outlooks in those countries, who were against imperialism and colonialism given their colonial pasts.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I raised a bug on this - agianst my better judgement

 

[IEX Totalview]

Originally posted by Derek Pullem
I raised a bug on this - agianst my better judgement

And I thank you.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Maybe a middle way could be found.What about a set of events for the U.S that fire when they have control of a given colony ,and sets that colony free as independant state or domminion for ex. ?

 

[IEX Totalview]

Maybe a middle way could be found.What about a set of events for the U.S that fire when they have control of a given colony ,and sets that colony free as independant state or domminion for ex. ?

Any solution involving new events for the official patch is no good.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I disagree completely. Liberia was not a "colony" in Anglo-French terms, but it was nowhere near a state either.

But let's look at it in gameplay terms:

The U.S. using its African Minor culture to create states in Africa means:

1) It can make it's African colonies immune from colonial wars

2) It can industrialize the area - huge advantage, and ahistorical

3) If it ever did social reforms, African states would see full benefits of those reforms - bloody unlikely IRL

4) Even if the manpower from colonies/manpower from foriegn cultures making home culture units exploits were removed, the U.S. could still use its state granting ability and African Minor culture to use West Africa as a nice manpower pool, something no other Western power could do.

All of the above put the U.S. in an ahistorically good position just because it had a large slave population and was thus granted African Minor culture.

The solution, IMO, is to remove U.S. African Minor culture or make it seperate from the culture in West Africa. The U.S. treated its "African Minors" fairly horribly throughout the era, and doesn't deserve African Minor culture any more than Great Britain deserves Irish culture.

Paradox agrees with you. Changed in 1.02