BUG: 0 Org troops

[swilhelm73]

0 Org troops

Version 1.02 US

I'm playing as Japan starting from 1936.

Its now 1940, and after saving the game, I was surveying the map, looking at how the Axis was doing overall.

I looked at my puppet, Manchunko, and noticed that all their troops seemed to be at 0 org. They weren't in low infrastructure provinces, or recently produced.

Wondering about that, I noticed Slovakia had a large army, so I choose to assume control - to again see all their troops at 0 Org.

I tried saving and loading, and they are still at 0 org, so I guess I'll see if there is an answer for this here...

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1150654#post1150654

 

[Castellon]

I don't think this is a harware specific question so lets move you over to the bug forum.
*Moved

 

[Vulture]

Anyone has an idea for the reason of this? Can't log it without an assumption

 

[unmerged(12783)]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
Anyone has an idea for the reason of this? Can't log it without an assumption

Officers and troops are all drunk?

 

[Vulture]

Naaah... I assume not There is no beer in Manchukwo

 

[Mithel]

Do the involved countries have any supplies produced? Maybe all the troops are "starving"?

- Mithel

 

[swilhelm73]

Well, I took a look at manchuko in the save file and they had...100% dissent! So I edited that to 0...but they still are at 0 org, so that isn't it, but it is a question as to how that came to be...I notice looking at a slightly later save game their dissent is at 3.6% already.

Looking at the save they have 0 supplies stored, but if they have no supplies at all their troops should eventually die, right?

 

[unmerged(378)]

100 dissent is your problem here. No supplies being produced. and org goes to 0. you will never lose strength for being out of supply, which is why it is useless to build supply as the US for the first 3 years or so. As to why Manchukou and Slovakia has 100 dissent? dunno...

 

[Vulture]

Found that out Brought to some ppl's attention

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
Found that out Brought to some ppl's attention

So, is the AI for these countries at a loss because it can't figure out how to make enough consumer good and supplies at the same time, and ends up in a dissent loop?

 

[Derek Pullem]

Not quite - puppets send their resources to their masters. Both of these nations have relatively large armies requiring supplies. Their ability to trade appears compromised by the lack of resources (they are all going to master if >100). So they don't produce much / enough IC to meet supply requirement and hence no IC to prevent dissent.

Other puppets survive if they have oil and /or rubber as they can generate enough IC.

It's an interaction between trade rules, puppet rules and AI economy. Johan has been informed

PS any examples of player generated puppets exhibiting same behaviour would be good.

 

[unmerged(7022)]

Not sure, if this is related, but I have a save file, where AI US troops are stuck at 0% org. They are marked as 'in supply', dissents are at 3%, supplys are plentyful, USA is at war.

Edit:
looked at the save game again, all the units in question have a weird pattern:

location = 1009
task = 1
taskprov = 1009

If I understand it right - and that is a big if - this means, a load task, but not in a sea zone as taskprov but the orginating province. Cause loading troops loose org (do they?), org is 0%.
One guess is, the transport was destroyed, moved away, and the load task not canceled.
But cleary not related to swilhelms issue.

 

[unmerged(10750)]

As US, I set up convoys taking resources out of the Philippines (I couldn't do that in 1.01, but in 1.02 I could. I wanted the rubber, but for some reason they made me take steel, oil and coal in the convoy as well. After a few months realized that I was pretty much destroying the Philippines' economy. I cancelled the convoys out of the Philippines (as a matter of fact, I set up one TO Manila) and that seemed to fix the problem after a few weeks.

I also noticed that I stopped getting normal puppet resources in 1.02 from Philippines, I had to set up the convoys to get them.

I don't know if this has any bearing on the Manchukuo/Slovakia situation, but there you go...

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Loaded up a save game as Manchukuo (May 1938) - Manchukuo seems to be sending ALL of its resources (not just half) to Japan. It has a stockpile of 100 Coal, 100 Steel, and 100 Oil (no Rubber) but it's not doing anything with them. As a result, it's at 0 ic. I don't see any way around this.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Yep that is pretty much it. It doesn't happen for all puppets but for some the combination of high support costs for troops, low resources and requirement to kep the master fed with coal etc. causes real problems.

Good side - I think it's an easy fix. Bad side - it'll need a new patch (not even one in beta yet). You might try giving one Manchuko province a small amount of rubber and oil to see if that keeps them alive - say 5 of each. But it's an unsatisfactory workaround.

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Nope - giving them more resources isn't the answer - they still give it all to their overlords. I guess their leadership is just very generous.

Temporary workaround - give Manchukuo/Slovakia (not sure if there are any others) a huge Supply stockpile (99999, why not?) and every few months edit their dissent back down to zero. Huge hassle, and they still don't build any troops or research any techs, but it does solve the troops with 0 org problem. I tried it, and it does seem to work.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by czolgosz
Nope - giving them more resources isn't the answer - they still give it all to their overlords. I guess their leadership is just very generous.

Temporary workaround - give Manchukuo/Slovakia (not sure if there are any others) a huge Supply stockpile (99999, why not?) and every few months edit their dissent back down to zero. Huge hassle, and they still don't build any troops or research any techs, but it does solve the troops with 0 org problem. I tried it, and it does seem to work.

Well, anyone tried just making them NOT puppets? I might try that the next time I get a chance...

 

[unmerged(12117)]

Having the same problem with Slovakia. Thought it was a supply issue and it's good to know it's a bug so I should not bother.

The units still have some use as "shadow" divisions to intimidate the enemy . . .

To test for puppets and allies both, I think a simple formula comparing consumer goods/military supply requirements against support requirements for initial forces would indicate those with a problem.

SL