Like make Flak 88 available in B phase,Give stuh 42 for A phase and pak 38
Than i think this division would be good
Than i think this division would be good
Buff Luftlande
- Thread starter TomasM15
- Start date
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This division is evil in built up areas and almost as evil in areas of the point du hoc map where everything is covered in hedgerows and any vehicle will be hit by a panzerfaust.
I've had good success in just choosing the right location to fight. I think that's what's holding a lot of people back.
I've had good success in just choosing the right location to fight. I think that's what's holding a lot of people back.
I have no problem in getting corrected now by better players, but your statement, while being true is also the problem.
Correct: 91st is strong in those situations but unfortunately it needs at least a small ability to fight also outside of its specialized areas.
12th-SS and 3rd armored got good infantry and Firesupport APCs to fight in towns, the Scots get Churchills and 17Pdrs to survive on open ground and even being able to push it.
91st seems to be lackluster here.
IMO: It would be better to get rid of the HS in Phase A for 91st and instead giving it access to the Flak36 in Phase A already with increasing availability and maybe Veterancy in Phase B and C.
At the same time the HS, which is only available then from Phase B onward could be allowed to get a price-drop to maybe 180.
It is my favourite division and the only things that i would like to change is to get panzer 3s at phase B that are not command variants. Also for mainly being an infantry division it is strongly lacking in the support tab, meaning i always find myself missing units that could support my infantry in towns. My simple fix for that would be to give 2x stuhs per card at phase B, because 1 per card at phase b is simply not enough especially when the americans get 2x 105mm shermans at B and the brits get 2xavres at phase b (and some in phase a)
Whit this division is good only on defense in A phase and i just steamroll always luftlande whit AVRE 
and no panzerfoust will rech my avre bacause i stay in 150m from any inf whit panzerfoust and i use recon,so i would only lose my avre if i would make mistake
and no panzerfoust will rech my avre bacause i stay in 150m from any inf whit panzerfoust and i use recon,so i would only lose my avre if i would make mistake
I'd actually disagree.
The dinky French tanks are the unit's ability to fight in open areas (pitiful as they are).
If the division is forced to fight in open area then somebody's screwed up. Probably your team allocated you wrong. The 12th SS lives and breaths on fighting in wide open spaces, let them have their fun.
You're the dude who suffers in towns and does the dirty work as the 91. I personally find that cool.
The buffs 91. need are buffs that apply to all forces. Personally I think that crewed weapons (specifically AT guns) need to be less easily destroyed by arty and airpower. If their survivability is increased then its a buff to the 91.
I'd also recommend people having trouble avoid using the ersatztruppen in their decks. Those guys are just useless except as filler for quiet sectors and as a pretty terrible back up. Fusiliers, pioneers, grenadiers as well as fallschirjagers, in fact, anything with a faust or a MG42 is what you're looking for. With those two weapons you can face down any allied infantry unit and destroy any allied tank from cover.
Oh and with cover, please use it.
And don't forget to use your tube arty. Ignore the IG-18s, don't ignore your arty tab. A tank is useless if its falling back and it's not hard to do if you focus fire with arty.
Edit: If we're dealing in 1v1s, then I'd agree, just don't use it. I personally despise 1v1s tbh. I honestly don't think they're what wargame is all about.
24xErsatztruppen + 6xPak36 + 1xMortar can be a very strong starting force for taking lots of land in phase A.
It's what I like about Luftlande. There's a lot of options.
Your results may vary. I found as I perfected my style and deck for the Luftlande that the ersatztruppen were phased out into the type of units I've just described.
That deck I'd be eager to try my hand against in an urban situation. 15th Scottish or similar with the full suite of AVRE, Crocs etc. The sheer number of Paks could make it a tough nut to crack in the factory map. No recce though? There's some good recce options in the Luftlande.
That deck I'd be eager to try my hand against in an urban situation. 15th Scottish or similar with the full suite of AVRE, Crocs etc. The sheer number of Paks could make it a tough nut to crack in the factory map. No recce though? There's some good recce options in the Luftlande.
Its only real problem is dealing with heavy armour, although to be fair that is quite a big problem on some areas of the map(s)
That's just the starting composition. I find recce to be most useful when the game bogs down a little. The point of this start is to push the front as far as possible across the whole front and get AT traps nice and forward to hurt counter attacks.
Swapping stuff out for another mortar (smoke) or some AA guns is an option. Depends who you're up against.
Ok, 1vs1 would have been my counter-argument but on the other hand I understand your point.
Nevertheless regarding my proposed changes for the 91st I got another point:
There will be a dedicated FschJg-Division (the 3rd) probably with air-support as their "heavy-mainstay" as I would imagine.
Thus shifting this layout in 91st a bit might help the deck slightly in 1on1 without helping it too much in team games and on the other hand would allow a stronger differentation between the 3rd and the 91st.
The only real issue I tend to find with the 91. is their "low numbers" in Phase A. As MarcoRossolini said, Ersatztruppen is pretty weak and lacks the ability to properly fight against any Infantry push. Since you have so little Fallschirmjägers, pushing the line gets really hard and even holding it can get difficult since reinforcing the attacked line gets difficult as casualties start piling due to AVREs, Half-tracks and fire support.
Would giving them maybe 1 more card of 3 be too much to remedy that? I don't know about the 88 shift from C to B though, while it would make the 91. more unique from 12. SS, I don't think they lack AT or AA in Phase B. They have plenty of options once they hit B.
Most problems I tend to find when it comes to these divisions is either something that is caused by game mechanics. Lethality of Artillery against Weapon Teams for example or the insane suppression ability of Half-tracks. It's that or people might not realise that the division they are saying is not "good" is because the division is not meant for them. Just because it is a division of the same type than another you used/saw being used and was good doesn't meant the division you are using is bad. While I want to avoid using the infamous "L2P" comment, in this situation it is partially acceptable.
An example. At first I thought that 12. SS was a bad division when I was playing it. First I tried it and then I played 3rd Armoured and loved the 3rd. I thought that the 12. SS was just a bad division and should get buffed. The real problem was me. 3rd fits my playstyle more. 3rd uses more armour than 12. or at least it works better. I pushed way harder with my 3rd than I ever did with my 12. SS.
This might be the third topic I see posted about the "weakness" of the 91. Division. Saying that they're bad isn't exactly true. I am sure that in the hands of a player that is both comfortable with their style and skilled with them, they are very good. Of course, I am sure that there are some real weaknesses that aren't intentional. I would personally wait for Eugen to improve the game mechanic problems first, like the lethality of Artillery and the effectiveness of Half-tracks, before I'd post topics like these.
Would giving them maybe 1 more card of 3 be too much to remedy that? I don't know about the 88 shift from C to B though, while it would make the 91. more unique from 12. SS, I don't think they lack AT or AA in Phase B. They have plenty of options once they hit B.
Most problems I tend to find when it comes to these divisions is either something that is caused by game mechanics. Lethality of Artillery against Weapon Teams for example or the insane suppression ability of Half-tracks. It's that or people might not realise that the division they are saying is not "good" is because the division is not meant for them. Just because it is a division of the same type than another you used/saw being used and was good doesn't meant the division you are using is bad. While I want to avoid using the infamous "L2P" comment, in this situation it is partially acceptable.
An example. At first I thought that 12. SS was a bad division when I was playing it. First I tried it and then I played 3rd Armoured and loved the 3rd. I thought that the 12. SS was just a bad division and should get buffed. The real problem was me. 3rd fits my playstyle more. 3rd uses more armour than 12. or at least it works better. I pushed way harder with my 3rd than I ever did with my 12. SS.
This might be the third topic I see posted about the "weakness" of the 91. Division. Saying that they're bad isn't exactly true. I am sure that in the hands of a player that is both comfortable with their style and skilled with them, they are very good. Of course, I am sure that there are some real weaknesses that aren't intentional. I would personally wait for Eugen to improve the game mechanic problems first, like the lethality of Artillery and the effectiveness of Half-tracks, before I'd post topics like these.
A small buff to the LL wouldn't hurt the balance, their Phase A is very weak compared to the Scots. Fallschirmjager are too expensive to make a difference in the field in Phase A. It's true than in hedgerows the LL excels greatly, because you can rely in short numbers to hold the line but the moment you stumble across an open field all your momentum is lost because there is not enough meat to throw.
Nevertheless their airpower is insane, every 10 v 10 I end up with over 3K kills and in smaller games if you manage to resist the early push and save points you can push them off with airstrikes but I feel it is quite risky. The allied battlegroups are always guaranteed to have an easy early and mid-game.
Nevertheless their airpower is insane, every 10 v 10 I end up with over 3K kills and in smaller games if you manage to resist the early push and save points you can push them off with airstrikes but I feel it is quite risky. The allied battlegroups are always guaranteed to have an easy early and mid-game.
It's an absolute dog shit division in open areas. But a murderers row in built up ones. I fought 2 x Scots and 1 X 3rd Armored supporting on the flank against the big factory. Held them in check the entire game. Was I pushing the map? No, but I was making them bleed like crazy. The only buildings I lost in the factory complex were the ones they bombed to dust. While I was pinning 2.5 players in a 3v3, my two buddies using 12th SS were just slowly rolling up the rest of the map.
Only suggestion I'd make and I wouldn't allow it if it wasn't historical is maybe a better TD. Stug's are a tad weak and if I'd been fighting 1 x Scot and the entire 3rd Armored deck instead of half of it, I would have probably lost to a couple Jumbos and 76's cutting off my reinforcement route. But man, as long as you can throw Ersatz and a few FSJ's into urban areas, you're gonna be tough to take out. Then there's the artillery, sweet tits the artillery!
Only suggestion I'd make and I wouldn't allow it if it wasn't historical is maybe a better TD. Stug's are a tad weak and if I'd been fighting 1 x Scot and the entire 3rd Armored deck instead of half of it, I would have probably lost to a couple Jumbos and 76's cutting off my reinforcement route. But man, as long as you can throw Ersatz and a few FSJ's into urban areas, you're gonna be tough to take out. Then there's the artillery, sweet tits the artillery!
I completely agree with you. I have noticed that they are getting wiped out really easily with a simple shot, where infantry are not harmed by the same shot. I have started going for quantity over quality because of the ease that they are destroyed.
My only real issue with the 91 is that I found the Marders to be lacking in firepower. I thought they were glass cannons, but I found myself completely outmatched by shermans (not jumbos) even when I caught them in an ambush. Alas I am new so perhaps my strategy was wrong.