Buff Espionage

[Haccoude]

Two complaints I commonly hear about EU4 is that events are pure RNG and don't reflect what's going in your nation, and that no one picks Espionage. One example of the first, is when you get hit by "Nobles Demand Recompensation" while having the Noble Loyalty Act active. Why should your nobility be just as restless and unhelpful when your country has taken measures to ensure their loyalty?

Combine that with being inspired by the threads about unique mechanics for NIs, and I have come up with this idea:

Remove the "Espionage" idea from the Espionage idea group, make infiltrate administration one the spy actions enabled by dip tech level instead of ideas, and replace the "Espionage" idea with "Secret Police: Have additional options in all random events involving internal stability".

Basically, if you finish off the Espionage idea group, you get better options in all events involving scheming, coups, plots, corruption, smugglers and other people trying to subtly undermine your nation for their own benefit. Also you get an additional option for Comet Sighted, namely "Why can't my spies help me?", giving -1 stability.

 

[Santoes]

Espionage is good, it's just a hard idea to pick for some. To see into a huge country and detect all of there movement is a hugely a great benefit. You can easily take advantage of the support rebel CB to totally bring down a country from with in. Nobles create autonomy, peasants lower taxes, nationalists create a new kingdom, patriots defect land, and religious will change the religion.

It will help you win trade justification wars by blockading. Privateering can be worth it on rich nodes. Reputation debuff will break up ai alliances, making easier targets.

Another thing is the Nobles Demand Recompensation is a generic event not limited to espionage. The Noble Loyalty Act is just a policy that is meant to add a bonus options for your country. Event wise espionage isn't to hurtful, and the worst event will only cost you 60 diplomacy points.

Event wise you get

Good
Adds the modifier "Enhanced Spies" for 5 years: +10% spy offense
Lift fog of war event on rival.
-50% relations impact from covert actions discovered for 5 years.
Adds the modifier "Efficient Dealings with Rebels" for 5 years: +50% rebel support efficiency
Womanizer Event
+25 MP

Bad
Spy Detection- Cost's money, or Offensive Spy %
Changes prestige by -25
-1 diplomatic relations limit

 

[Haccoude]

Espionage is good, it's just a hard idea to pick for some. To see into a huge country and detect all of there movement is a hugely a great benefit. You can easily take advantage of the support rebel CB to totally bring down a country from with in. Nobles create autonomy, peasants lower taxes, nationalists create a new kingdom, patriots defect land, and religious will change the religion.

It will help you win trade justification wars by blockading. Privateering can be worth it on rich nodes. Reputation debuff will break up ai alliances, making easier targets.

I'm not myself saying it's bad, merely that I ave heard there a lot of people that don't think it's worth taking, and therefore I voiced an idea for how to make it worth taking.

Another thing is the Nobles Demand Recompensation is a generic event not limited to espionage. The Noble Loyalty Act is just a policy that is meant to add a bonus options for your country. Event wise espionage isn't to hurtful, and the worst event will only cost you 60 diplomacy points.

I know that Nobles Demand Recompensation is a generic event, that's what I'm pointing out. That currently a lot of events are pure RNG and don't take what your country is like into account. I've have heard people complain about their immersion suffering because of events sayign that something is happening in their country which doesn't make sense. And I can understand and agree with them. Currently events are far too much "Here's a random penalty or bonus because the RNG says so, and here's some random text that nominally explains why, but doesn't really because it makes no sense from an immersion standoint".

If Infiltrate Administration is too powerful for everyone to have access to it, then let be some other idea that get replaced by Secret Police. The main point is to give back to the player some amount of control over what happens to their country.

EDIT: Paradox could also just keep Espionage as is, but have idea groups affect generic events in addition to unlocking their own. So having either Offensive or Defensive ideas means that if you get the generic event "Opposing Military Schools", you have an additional option named "We have already made our choice" which gives you the benefit of your choosing your idea groups normal option, but without the downside. Generic events related to religion have additional options unlocked with Humanist and Religious. Humanist and Innovative give options with less downsides in events where your ruler is challenged by advisors or can gain benefits by choosing an unconventional choice, while Religious also gives additional options gives you the options of using religiosu minorities as scape goats in matters of internal stability.

 

[Vistariel]

I think espionage would be buffed if it incorporated additional options, all of which would have costs, of course. I would envision espionage to be the perfect policy for nations that tend to become very wealthy, but not terribly militaristic (such as the Hansa, for example) and thus would impose high costs for these actions that only wealthy nations could afford to pay for extended periods. They would also by necessity require relations malus for discovered activities with the targeted nation in question. For example:

1) Corruption: An option to decrease national tax modifier and/or production and/or trade efficiencies (say 10% or something), cost gold proportional to income levels in those respective areas.
2) Patronize Court Intrigue: an option that will encourage the probability of "early retirement" of heirs and rulers (that just so happen to not be of your preferred dynasty).
3) Bribery: increase upkeep costs for military, missionaries, and colonists.

If there were options like these I assure you that espionage would become a much more regular selection, if even for the defensive purposes.

 

[Empreorpoef]

i would love an execute general feature if it was worked out good

 

[saegoto]

I w2ould suggest to add more spy actions. Something like this:

Privateers
Allows Colonial Pesimism
+33% Privateer efficiency

Vetting
Allows Spy Ring Infiltration
+25% National spy defense

Rumourmongering
Allows Sabotage Reputation
+1 Diplomats

Counterfeit Currency
Allows Counterfeit Currency
+25% Embargo efficiency

Shady Recruitment
Allows Incite Troop Desertion
-33% Covert action relation impact

Destabilizing Efforts
Allows Sow Discontent
+25% Spy offence

Espionage
Allows Infiltrate Administration
-20% Rebel support cost

Bonus:
+50% Rebel support efficiency






Fabricate Claim - Chance of discovery is lower but discovery removes fabricating process and impacts relations . Spy defence counts from the province. (It improves importance of spy ofence, deffence modifiers)

Colonial Pesimism - a chance to lose some settlers for an enemy colony or increace liberty disire of a colonial nation. Spy defence counts from the nearest cored port or CN capital.

Spy Ring Infiltration - -20% enemy spy defence, -20% enemy defesivness. It works on a single province. Discovery reduces relations and disables diplomat for a year.

Sabotage Reputation - minus to yearly relations to all (max -100 relation) (works similar to improve relations), -1 yearly prestige, -2 diplomatic reputation. Spy defence counts from capital. Discovery gives -3 diplomatic reputation and disables diplomat for a year and impacts relation.

Counterfeit Currency - you can send a diplomat to a trade node if you have merchant there. While he is present he produces inflation for all who are collecting inside. Countries split the inflation according to trade power in node. Spy inflation scale directly with two things: the trade value in node and the % trade power you possess there (exclusing privateers). The discovery chance is based on the highest spy defense of any nation trade capital or 'important center of trade' in the trade node. Discovery kicks your merchant out of the node, reduces relations with all nations whose collect there and gives you -10% trade power in this node for one year.

Incite Troop Desertion - +0,03 yearly enemy War Exhausting. Only during the enemy war. Spy defence counts from the capital. Discovery gives casus belli and impacts aggresive expantion.

Sow Discontent - -1 yearly legitimicy/-0,5 republican tradition, stab cost +50%, +1 revolt risk. Spy defence count from the capital. Discovery gives casus belli for a year and reduces relations.

Infiltrate Administration - you can see enemies territory. Spy defence counts from the capital. Discovery gives casus belli for a year, disable diplomat for a year and gives impact aggresive expantion.


Spies actions have double diplomat travel time.


So Espionage is useful in peace time and during the war. It may weaken trade, colonization and diplomacy of an enemy.