Broken: Players are punished for over-educating their citizens

[28rommel]

I purchased the game in late November.
I have the 100% vanilla version of Cities Skylines ; no mods installed and not even the After Dark expansion.

Still playing my first game/city and have reached about 19,000 population.
Notes and hints within the game, and what I have read via the net, indicates that "educating" your citizens seems to reflect positively for various aspects of your game. So I have invested quite a-bit of my resources to education at the elementary, high school and college level.
But it seems that the player is somewhat punished for having an "educated" work force.

The problem is that adults with a higher education level than what is required for the job, seem reluctant and very slow to take a position with the business (location).
For example, I allow just ONE 4x4 size Farm specialized growable to form (which requires 16 UNEDUCATED employees), and then wait A LONG TIME to see (and pray) that I can at least get half the workforce required (8 employees) for the business. Exactly half (at a minimum) is required for the business to run, and for the "Not Enough Workers" warning to disappear. If a player does not reach at least the 50% required within a specific amount of time, then the business goes "Abandoned" and then you need to bulldoze the business and try again. This is obviously very frustrating !

I waste so much time just trying to grow ONE stinking business. I need to grow one at a time, or else then multiple businesses are certain to go "Abandoned" if I try to grow more than one.
This happens in my city with/showing :
* 6% Uneducated, 18% Educated, 17% Well Educated and 59% Highly Educated.
* 24% Unemployment (which is very high)
* The green demand bar level for Residential is zero and non-existent (I currently cant increase the residential in my city, even if I wanted to)
* The orange Industry demand bar is very high, almost to the very top.
* I do have some high density residential (and they are at least at a mid-level upgrade) nearby the farming district.
* I have a zero problem with traffic and roads.

This seems to indicate a "broken" concept/rule within the game mechanics.
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Is this not something that should be repaired/fixed by Colossal Order ?
Or am I missing something ?
I would like to hear ALL your opinions, but I would mostly like to hear from you based on how the game has been designed without the use of a mod to get around this issue.

 

[Promethian]

Just be a bit heavier on Residential zoning. It seems horrible but 15% unemployment is actually about ideal and it ensures all your low skill jobs get filled.

 

[hyno111]

It's game mechanic and quite logical that educated worker will not take unskilled job.
Last time I checked, the broken mechanic here seems to be everyone goes to the college, and become highly educated. Not sure if it's still the case (or that's by design)

 

[28rommel]

Just be a bit heavier on Residential zoning. It seems horrible but 15% unemployment is actually about ideal and it ensures all your low skill jobs get filled.

Promethian,
You must have missed reading this part in my OP. (Sorry, I know it was somewhat lengthy.)

This happens in my city with/showing :
* 24% Unemployment (which is very high)
* The green demand bar level for Residential is zero and non-existent (I currently cant increase the residential in my city, even if I wanted to)
* The orange Industry demand bar is very high, almost to the very top.

 

[metacritical]

this doesn't really fix the problem but your city is probably screaming for office zones which will provide jobs for your highly educated CIMs

what i tend to do is keep my education levels in the middle of the demand rather than provide enough schools for everyone and i only ever build one university.

 

[Promethian]

Promethian,
You must have missed reading this part in my OP. (Sorry, I know it was somewhat lengthy.)

I have a city with the Hadron Collider right now and 96% of my cims are highly educated. In the 15-20% unemployment range I have zero zones seeking workers. This includes my farm settlement way out away from the main portion of my city. At 24% unemployment if your farms aren't being worked it doesn't have to do with education.

 

[lecek]

The problem here is that the feedback always suggests education is the problem. Everyone who plays this game goes through that faze where they are dealing with over educated cities, but it is not and never was the problem. The game feedback just leads one to think it is.

I too always have my CIM's fully educated all the time. The highly educated will happily take the lower jobs, they just take them last and after some delay. YOU DO NOT NEED UNDER EDUCATED SLUMS IN CSL FOR ANY REASON.

You need about 15% +/- unemployment and some time for the jobs to fill. You demand meter will drive you to have too many commercial zones and they take jobs as well. So you want to have fewer of those. If your city doesn't grow for any reason and you think it should build a few more commercial and then keep it at that until the city stagnates again.

You can have a fully educated city and a zot-less* city at the same time.

If you look around the forums you will find threads talking about how cities in CSL are often utopian paradises. Once one gets around the fact the interface effectively lies to you it is easy to build cities that are just too perfect for real life.

*I don't know if they are called zots in CSL but just in case I am talking about the little icons that tell you when a building needs attention. (No power, high crime, ETC...)

 

[28rommel]

I have a city with the Hadron Collider right now and 96% of my cims are highly educated. In the 15-20% unemployment range I have zero zones seeking workers. This includes my farm settlement way out away from the main portion of my city. At 24% unemployment if your farms aren't being worked it doesn't have to do with education.

.... The highly educated will happily take the lower jobs, they just take them last and after some delay.
.... You need about 15% +/- unemployment and some time for the jobs to fill.
.... You can have a fully educated city and a zot-less* city at the same time.
*I don't know if they are called zots in CSL but just in case I am talking about the little icons that tell you when a building needs attention. (No power, high crime, ETC...)

I agree with most of what is being said here.
But I want to make it clear that I am not saying that the Highly Educated will not take a lower required job at all. They will, but the process of getting the business up-and-running is long, frustrating and requires a lot of babysitting.

If I can (eventually) reach the 50% employment mark for each business, then the business is usually/always fine as the game continues to run forward ; the business will continue to slowly acquire more Highly Educated workers, and will be at-near or maxed-out with total employees allowable for that business. The majority of the employees will then stay working at this location, and I never experience additional problems with this business (no more "Not Enough Workers" or "Abandoned" warnings).

So .... I can EVENTUALLY develop a farming district. The farms will be worked (by the Highly Educated), but again the process (game mechanic) is very slow.
Getting my Offices filled with employees is not a problem. It's just trying to get those businesses which require little-to-no Highly Educated employees that are an issue. I intentionally try to develop (grow) the lower-education required businesses (like farming) when I have a very high unemployment period in my game, in the hopes I can "force" this larger pool of unemployed people (increasing my chances) to work there, but even then the process is frustrating (sorry to sound like a broken record).

Also, my city is usually "zot-less," with the occasional small icons telling me of a minor issue (a random crime, a fire, etc).

 

[Promethian]

I don't understand this concept of babysitting. Do you seriously believe staring at the zones as they gradually fill up will somehow influence it?

 

[28rommel]

I don't understand this concept of babysitting. Do you seriously believe staring at the zones as they gradually fill up will somehow influence it?

LOL.
Your statement is very true.
I guess what I mean from "babysitting" is building ONE farm, waiting and waiting and waiting for the number of employees to increase, hoping and praying for it to have enough people so the property doesn't go from "Not enough workers" to "Abandoned."
I cant do very much more while I'm waiting, because my intention is to try to grow another farm immediately after the current one is "safe" from going abandoned. I usually monitor other things while I'm waiting, but ...
I admit, I do sometimes sit there are "stare" at the property info window (by clicking on the business), when it is in the red/alert "Not enough workers" status. I watch to see if I can meet the 50% mark in time, and when it doesn't and goes abandoned, I go bonkers (which includes me screaming colorful words).

Thanks for all your input Promethian !

 

[Promethian]

The thing is the low education zones are going to swing a lot with workers. As you expand you will inevitably add higher ed jobs and the farmers will move away. My farms get abandoned and rebuilt all the time as I grow my cities. Its ok. Just continue on and remember to always end by zoning some R so your employment gets back to the right %.

 

[28rommel]

The thing is the low education zones are going to swing a lot with workers. As you expand you will inevitably add higher ed jobs and the farmers will move away. My farms get abandoned and rebuilt all the time as I grow my cities. Its ok. Just continue on and remember to always end by zoning some R so your employment gets back to the right %.

Really ?
I figured that once the Highly Educated took a job at the farm, that they would basically stay there as an employee until they retire (become old).
Great !
Gives me something to look forward to ..... ie : more frustration.
Oh well. I will carry on, as you advise.

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

I figured that once the Highly Educated took a job at the farm, that they would basically stay there as an employee until they retire (become old).

I think the CIMs have a 6 year life span, so working the job to retirement age probably won't take that long anyway.

 

[MarkJohnson]

The problem is that adults with a higher education level than what is required for the job, seem reluctant and very slow to take a position with the business (location).
For example, I allow just ONE 4x4 size Farm specialized growable to form (which requires 16 UNEDUCATED employees), and then wait A LONG TIME to see (and pray) that I can at least get half the workforce required (8 employees) for the business. Exactly half (at a minimum) is required for the business to run, and for the "Not Enough Workers" warning to disappear. If a player does not reach at least the 50% required within a specific amount of time, then the business goes "Abandoned" and then you need to bulldoze the business and try again. This is obviously very frustrating !

Cims will work wherever they can. If you have lack of workers it is one of two things. not enough unemplyment (lack of workers), or they are too far away and cims won't drive that far. Add buses, trains and whatever mass-transit options to get them their. Or just build residential nearby.

Never bulldoze abandon buildings. They will reoccupy as soon as possible. Bulldozing will slow things down.

I waste so much time just trying to grow ONE stinking business. I need to grow one at a time, or else then multiple businesses are certain to go "Abandoned" if I try to grow more than one.
This happens in my city with/showing :
* 6% Uneducated, 18% Educated, 17% Well Educated and 59% Highly Educated.

This is way too low for your buildings to level up.

* 24% Unemployment (which is very high)

If your unemployment is this high, then you are too far away from work. Move them closer, mass transit, etc.

* The green demand bar level for Residential is zero and non-existent (I currently cant increase the residential in my city, even if I wanted to)
* The orange Industry demand bar is very high, almost to the very top.
* I do have some high density residential (and they are at least at a mid-level upgrade) nearby the farming district.
* I have a zero problem with traffic and roads.
This seems to indicate a "broken" concept/rule within the game mechanics.
Has anyone else experienced this ?

Is this not something that should be repaired/fixed by Colossal Order ?
Or am I missing something ?
I would like to hear ALL your opinions, but I would mostly like to hear from you based on how the game has been designed without the use of a mod to get around this issue.

This is normal. High unemployment means you don't need more worker, you need more jobs to lower unemployment. i.e. high industry demand.

This is exactly as it should be. I'm not sure why you think it is broken.

First, you should build education before anything. It takes a long time to educate cims. Adults won't go to school and you have to wait for them to turn into seniors and die and replaced by kids who go to school. life span is roughy 5-years average, but modders say 4-6 years and some random death occurs.

Cims will take the best job they can, like in real life. If your farm is lacking workers it is because you don't have enough workers, not that they are over educated. Minimum unemployment is 5% but higher creates more demand and faster growth.

If you need more help, please post your save so we can look at it in action and be better able to offer advice.

 

[ristosal]

Adults won't go to school

Save for university where adults seem to be allowed, despite the game claiming "only young adults can attend the university".

 

[Promethian]

Never bulldoze abandoned buildings. They will reoccupy as soon as possible. Bulldozing will slow things down.

Incorrect. The opposite is true. The zone must be rebuilt from scratch and the presence of the abandoned building discourages replacement and reduces local land value. The only reason to keep abandoned buildings is if you've had a mass abandonment for some reason, the abandoned buildings will conduct power for you.

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

Never bulldoze abandon buildings. They will reoccupy as soon as possible. Bulldozing will slow things down.

If you bulldoze an abandoned building, it can restart building a new building immediately if the demand for it is there. If you don't, I am pretty sure there is a minimum time before it can be reoccupied, at which point it rebuilds from scratch anyway. As Promethian mentioned, leaving them up to conduct power is sometimes desirable.

Abandoned buildings being bulldozed often makes nearby CIMs happy.

 

[MarkJohnson]

It is true abandoned buildings decrease land values minimally, unless on a massive scale. But cims will move in immediately when there is demand. plus it gives you time to figure out why they went abandoned, otherwise It makes it harder to see where the issues are if you bulldoze them. If you bulldoze an abandoned building and it grows back immediately, you'll notice it stays empty for a long time and usually gives not enough workers if a business.

Same with mass abandonment. If you leave them up, it makes it harder to track down the issue in most cases. All of those abandoned buildings are cause gigantic land value loss and affect the rest of the nearby building masking your real problems.

If you need power from mass abandonment then run a power line and turn off all service buildings until you figure out why you lost such a huge section of your city.

but the bigger the abandonment, the more harmful the effect. Losing a dmall amount usually doesn't affect it significantly. You can safely ignore them in most cases while you figure out why they went abandoned in the first place. Usually low unemployment. i.e. lack of workers (lack of residential)

EDIT

But this is all moot to the OP as he has other issues.

 

[cRAGGLE]

That's the vanilla base game for you. I started off with the automatic bulldoze mod to alleviate the issue you're having and it just snow balled with more mods from there to become playable. The base game is IMO flawed and could use a lot more polish on the underlying mechanics involved.

 

[reedrosa]

I agree with the original post. Where are the low income neighborhoods? Every real city has them, but not my CS cities.