British plans for northern Ireland before the Troubles

[RedRalphWiggum]

There's a general consensus that the Catholic community of NI was disadvantaged in many ways in the years leading up to the Troubles.

How did London imagine that situation was going to progress in, say, the early 60s? Did they expect things to always stay this way, or did some see that it was inevitable Catholics would demand equal treatment at some point?

 

[Eusebio]

I don't think anyone in Whitehall really cared. They left Northern Ireland to Stormont to deal with.

 

[Lord Tim]

There's some indication that the British government supported Terrence O'Neill becoming PM of NI, and he was certainly interested in improving relations between the communities. There's evidence that British civil servants were among those trying to get Brookeborough out of office. And I doubt if they were acting without minsiterial approval, or were unaware of the likely consequences.

 

[StephenT]

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/"northern+ireland"+catholics?decade=1960s

Enjoy!

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/"northern+ireland"+catholics?decade=1960s

Enjoy!

Summarise, if you will, the salient points

 

[StephenT]

Summarise, if you will, the salient points

But that would require me to actually read the Hansard minutes I linked to, and I'm not the one who's interested in the subject.

 

[Gordy]

There's a general consensus that the Catholic community of NI was disadvantaged in many ways in the years leading up to the Troubles.

How did London imagine that situation was going to progress in, say, the early 60s? Did they expect things to always stay this way, or did some see that it was inevitable Catholics would demand equal treatment at some point?

NI constitutes about 2-3% of the UK population. It got a proportional amount of attention from the Westminster government.

 

[stug111]

churchill in 1940 considered offering to unite ireland in return for the free state joining the war on britains side .. primarily for basing rights for the battle of the atlantic

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

churchill in 1940 considered offering to unite ireland in return for the free state joining the war on britains side .. primarily for basing rights for the battle of the atlantic

It's often considered to be unclear if it was a serious offer

 

[Major Sharpe]

There's a general consensus that the Catholic community of NI was disadvantaged in many ways in the years leading up to the Troubles.

How did London imagine that situation was going to progress in, say, the early 60s? Did they expect things to always stay this way, or did some see that it was inevitable Catholics would demand equal treatment at some point?

I don't know. But I'm of the opinion that few in Westminster had any desire to actually retain Northern Ireland (without the rest) but they were coerced by the loyalist community and general British public reaction to not abandon those who wished to remain British and thus retained the six counties. This simplistic image created a view whereby those of the North were all loyal Brits and there were no republicans in Northern Ireland, until the troubles started I doubt Westminster was aware, let alone cared for the Catholic community, and for the most part they were content to let Stormont manage things

 

[stug111]

It's often considered to be unclear if it was a serious offer

In 1940 Churchill was desperate, desperate enough to risk an eternal stain on anglo french relations for the foreseeable future by attacking the french fleet sinking french ships and killing french sailors. He had two great fears .. an actual invasion and failing that to lose the battle of the atlantic and be forced to capitulate .. Churchill would have given the six counties to the devil himself in 1940

 

[Allenby]

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/"northern+ireland"+catholics?decade=1960s

Enjoy!

As Reginald Maudling said, 'bring me a large scotch - what a bloody awful country!'

 

[Allenby]

There's a general consensus that the Catholic community of NI was disadvantaged in many ways in the years leading up to the Troubles.

How did London imagine that situation was going to progress in, say, the early 60s? Did they expect things to always stay this way, or did some see that it was inevitable Catholics would demand equal treatment at some point?

Essentially, nobody in Whitehall cared. Nobody in mainland Britain did either. Northern Ireland and all the Catholic population's disadvantages never made the news. And as it had its own parliament at Stormont, most thought it best for Northern Ireland to leave it to its own devices.

As Uncle Jim Callaghan said in the mid-1960s 'most Members of Parliament knew less about [Northern Ireland] than we knew about our distant colonies on the far side of the earth'.

 

[KINGBEN]

Allenby is alive!

 

[cacra]

As Uncle Jim Callaghan said in the mid-1960s 'most Members of Parliament knew less about [Northern Ireland] than we knew about our distant colonies on the far side of the earth'.

That is not true! Anyone can work out Northern Ireland is in the North of Ireland, ‎Akrotiri on the other hand...

 

[jamhaw]

In 1940 Churchill was desperate, desperate enough to risk an eternal stain on anglo french relations for the foreseeable future by attacking the french fleet sinking french ships and killing french sailors. He had two great fears .. an actual invasion and failing that to lose the battle of the atlantic and be forced to capitulate .. Churchill would have given the six counties to the devil himself in 1940

It's worth keeping in mind that southern Ireland was still under the crown and hence nominally part of the Empire at the time.

Still if he had actually handed the north over I don't any reason why his father's declaration that Ulster would fight and Ulster would be right would not be true in 1940. And Northern Ireland could be counted on to contribute more to the war effort.

 

[Major Sharpe]

It's worth keeping in mind that southern Ireland was still under the crown and hence nominally part of the Empire at the time.

I thought the Irish Free state proclaimed itself a republic in 1937, following the abdication crisis (All parliaments of the empire had to pass a law making George VI king, Eire instead proclaimed a republic)

 

[marty99]

I thought the Irish Free state proclaimed itself a republic in 1937, following the abdication crisis (All parliaments of the empire had to pass a law making George VI king, Eire instead proclaimed a republic)

Arguably it was more a less a republic in practice, but it wasn't a real, official Republic until 1949.

 

[Wagonlitz]

That is not true! Anyone can work out Northern Ireland is in the North of Ireland, ‎Akrotiri on the other hand...

is also really easy.

 

[jamhaw]

is also really easy.

Go out on the streets of London asking people where Akrotiri is and what its relationship with Britain is. I doubt most people will answer "Cyprus."