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Attalus

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Hey everybody !
Thinking about the new Britonnic update of VIET, I realized that Britanny is not really good modeled in the Old Gods bookmark. Let me explain :

1) In 867 Salomon instead of being a duke should be king of Brittany.
I know that he was in a sort king-vassal of the Franks but well he is the closest character ( with Alan the Great ) to the title of King of Britanny.

2) To avoid Charles to attack him in the year after the game starts both should have a truce with each other. To really model the situation we'd need a system to model the treaty of Compiègne like the Aqba in Ethiopia to avoid Muslims, Jewish and Christians to fight unless someone breaks the agreement.

3) Brittany was a relatively strong state in the period and crumbled only because of the Vikings. Look at the Battle of Ballon, the battle of Jengland and the numerous raids the Bretons led against Franks, in which the light Breton cavalry proved efficient. But with Haefstein next door and Charles who wants the Cotentin, I see Brittany fall in 3/4 of my games. Maybe giving them some free retinues, like Haefstein has, could help them. It was only 60 years after the beginning of the game that Brittany crumbled under the Vikings.

4) ( for SWMH ) I don't really see why you divided Britanny in two duchies. It's true that there is a distinction between High-Britanny ( Hautt-Bertayn ) which is more frankish and Low-Britanny ( Breizh Izel ) that is more celtic. But for all the period there was no division of the two areas under two different rulers. The only case being in the Breton Succession War between the Monfort and the Blois and even there it is tedious.
I would advise to make only one title of Duke which would cover the whole peninsula ( like in vanilla in gross )

Well that's all and I hope my message don't look too much "Britanny should be able to do a WC on his own !" :D
 

zijistark

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If it started out as a kingdom, that wouldn't be much of a problem would it?
It wasn't a kingdom in the proper sense at the start, so it wouldn't make much sense to start it as one, esp. given even its de facto state at start. It was a 'petty kingdom,' and represented as such appropriately. Hence, proper control of both duchies can lead to a de jure kingdom (which means taking care of that nasty Viking and the bald guy).

Regarding #4 as well: duchies do not map to political rulers. They map to politically- or historically-relevant groupings of smaller de jure titles, counties, which is a bit more broad criteria. There are plenty of de jure titles that have almost always had only the same holder at any given time. [Don't ask me for a list right now, though.]
 

Attalus

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It wasn't a kingdom in the proper sense at the start, so it wouldn't make much sense to start it as one, esp. given even its de facto state at start. It was a 'petty kingdom,' and represented as such appropriately. Hence, proper control of both duchies can lead to a de jure kingdom (which means taking care of that nasty Viking and the bald guy).

Regarding #4 as well: duchies do not map to political rulers. They map to politically- or historically-relevant groupings of smaller de jure titles, counties, which is a bit more broad criteria. There are plenty of de jure titles that have almost always had only the same holder at any given time. [Don't ask me for a list right now, though.]

But the problem is that for 600 years the peninsula has been controlled entirely by the dukes of Brittany and none of them could declare himself king.
It is too easy for a person in the game to form the kingdom whereas it should be a sort of achievement.
 

zijistark

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But the problem is that for 600 years the peninsula has been controlled entirely by the dukes of Brittany and none of them could declare himself king.
It is too easy for a person in the game to form the kingdom whereas it should be a sort of achievement.
I see what you're saying. Unfortunately, I can think of no reasonable way to actually implement that sort of creation requirement short of having major, new modding features added to the language (not going to happen). The normal sorts of kingdom creation requirements don't quite apply.

I suppose also this sort of thing can be approximated by a condition such as: additionally controlling Anjou and Poitou and maybe even Normandy (or specifically some contiguous eastern counties in Normandy-- maybe don't require Eu or Vexin, in vanilla terms), because controlling all of the duchies of Normandy, Anjou, and Poitou in addition to Brittany actually implies achieving quite a regional military/political power, pretty much splitting the territory of modern day France into 3 parts-- super-brittany, occitania, and a remaining france, which probably would have had a lot more dutch influence politically, and not the small peninsular enclave 'kingdom' that it is. Maybe even just, on an SWMH map, a couple of the duchies which would make the most sense being held in addition to the 2 of brittany itself could be the requirement.
 

Attalus

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If both duchies are kept, an easy way to avoid the formation of Breizh Izel could be not to hold the other duchy in order to create it. Like Aquitaine with France
 

SBolshevik

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Or a simple "hold any duchy title that is not the duchy of Haute-Bertayn and the duchy of Breizh Izel" construction.
Which, by the way, already exists (with different titles) for the empire of Francia.
 

zijistark

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Or a simple "hold any duchy title that is not the duchy of Haute-Bertayn and the duchy of Breizh Izel" construction.
Which, by the way, already exists (with different titles) for the empire of Francia.
Right, that's what I suggested at the end of my list of possible options. Probably that.

Someone pitch it to an SWMH dev in the SWMH thread. Not my flag to fly. :D