So I'm Britannia, or about to be---I have all the land I need for it. I'm actually going for a Britannia/Frisia/Britanny/ Okay, basically, Britannia, Frisia, and the rest of the modern country of France. My capital is Brugge; I personally hold all of Flanders' counties. Anyways, I want to create some vassal merchant republics, and I've got a bunch of options that I can't decide which to choose from: The Isle of Mann (duchy/county), Brittany (Kingdom), Holland (Duchy), Gelre (Duchy), and, though I don't have it just yet, Navarra (Kingdom). I have all DLC, and my start was 769; it's now 101. I have England and Brittany, most of Wales, much of Ireland, and I'll inherit another chunk of Ireland when my father, the King of Scotland, dies. I've also managed to nab Normandy. I'm currently a King-level vassal of the now-massive Empire of Francia, but this will end within a generation when I make my bid for independence.
I've been told that the Isle of Mann is ideal. The problem is, my younger brother inherited it (our father was King of Scotland). I can change that and give him something else via console, though. The other issue is that it's de jure part of Scotland, rather than England, and I think I'm likely to have Scotland be a vassal Kingdom to keep vassal count low. I can fix that with a mod I've got that will allow me to move duchies between de jure Kingdoms, though.
My real problem with Mann, and with Holland and Gelre, is that merchant republics get a -20 relationship modifier for desiring a Kingdom. This, stacked with the "wrong government" -20 relationship modifier, seems like it would be asking for trouble. But having a King-level vassal, for some reason, doesn't give me a negative relationship modifier (figured this out in testing). So a King-level, namely Brittany and/or Navarra, won't have the additional -20. On the other hand, Mann is also the only one of these options that I won't have to defend from the massive Empire of Francia for about 100 years because they'll have a de jure claim. Seriously, Francia is huge. It's de jure absorbed Barcelona, the Kingdom of Saxony, most of the Empire of Germania, and it has stretched down into the Iberian Peninsula on the western half of the Pyrenees, as well. And it will soon have most of Britannia, since I'm soon a vassal.
Here's my reasoning for the rest of the options, aside from Mann:
Brittany has that Kingdom thing, and I need to give that Duchy away at some point, for vassal count. I currently hold that title personally. In addition, it makes a kingdom non-inheritable for feudal vassals, so I don't have to worry about super-kings later down the line. It's also pretty big, big enough to maintain itself, right? I've never had a vassal MR before. But it might be too close to Mann.
Now, Holland and Gelre are interesting---and, I hope, far enough from Mann that they won't fight. I've got a dynasty member who owns basically all of Holland personally, and he's been an ass and built castles to fill the empty slots, as the AI loves to do. Gelre still has a few slots. I've also taken two of those three Counties, now held by my vassals; I made one a County-level republic and I'm keeping one feudal, to frustrate whoever I give the Duchy to eventually (No matter what, they'll have a -20 modifier). I've done the same in Brittany, by the way; I personally hold one county, three are held by feudal vassals, and two by mayors.
Interesting thing about Gelre----the last County I need is the farthest from my capital, and it's actually in the Danish sea zone, so it's far enough from Mann that I'd hope setting it up there, rather than the closer County I've given to a Mayor (County of Gelre is feudal), would make the MR expand into the sea zones of the Empire of Scandinavia (they formed as a tribal empire!), expanding my control over trade.
Alternately, Holland would be in my capital's sea zone---does that matter? Note that Holland is going to be much more of a pain to grab for myself, I'll have to fabricate a bunch of claims, but if it's a big difference, long-term, I could see myself doing it.
Interesting bit for both of them: I don't have, or plan on creating, the Kingdom of Frisia title. I think this means that until de jure drift brings Holland/Gelre into England (and Britannia, as a result), that I won't have to deal with the "desires Kingdom of" Malus so long as it's not a de jure vassal of a Kingdom I hold, deferring that problem even though it wouldn't really solve it in the end.
Lastly, Navarra. Like Brittany, it's a King-level vassal, so that's a bonus. And it's on the opposite end of what I'll eventually want as my empire. I figure that if I have three MRs, and I make them Mann, Gelre, and Navarra, that'll leave enough space for each of them to grow, right? But naturally, Navarra's gonna be much harder since it's de jure in the Empire of Hispania, though it'll de jure shift to Francia about 15 years from now. Either way, I'll have to protect it.
Side note on Francia's strength: Even though it's massive, I think I can keep it weak. Except for West Francia, which the Emperor holds, all the other Kingdoms have Elective succession, and are or are soon to be out of Karling hands. There aren't many direct Count-or-Duke-level vassals under the Kingdom of West Francia, either, and I'm nibbling away at those now, since I don't have to fight a King for them now, and I'll have to fight the damn Emperor fro them later. But if I take them now, I weaken the Empire a bit, I weaken the Emperor's personal power a lot, and I strengthen myself, as well. I also have an insane 33 Diplomacy----without adding in the bonus of my Chancellor or wife (who has 20 diplomacy). So when I form an Independence faction, I expect that a lot of vassals will join it, effectively shattering the realm.
I got distracted. My question is this: What combination of MRs will provide the best coverage, the most coverage, that is, while still being very profitable and not too hard to put down(/easy to keep pliable), and without them being, you know, fighting each other all the time? Sorry this post is so dang long!
I've been told that the Isle of Mann is ideal. The problem is, my younger brother inherited it (our father was King of Scotland). I can change that and give him something else via console, though. The other issue is that it's de jure part of Scotland, rather than England, and I think I'm likely to have Scotland be a vassal Kingdom to keep vassal count low. I can fix that with a mod I've got that will allow me to move duchies between de jure Kingdoms, though.
My real problem with Mann, and with Holland and Gelre, is that merchant republics get a -20 relationship modifier for desiring a Kingdom. This, stacked with the "wrong government" -20 relationship modifier, seems like it would be asking for trouble. But having a King-level vassal, for some reason, doesn't give me a negative relationship modifier (figured this out in testing). So a King-level, namely Brittany and/or Navarra, won't have the additional -20. On the other hand, Mann is also the only one of these options that I won't have to defend from the massive Empire of Francia for about 100 years because they'll have a de jure claim. Seriously, Francia is huge. It's de jure absorbed Barcelona, the Kingdom of Saxony, most of the Empire of Germania, and it has stretched down into the Iberian Peninsula on the western half of the Pyrenees, as well. And it will soon have most of Britannia, since I'm soon a vassal.
Here's my reasoning for the rest of the options, aside from Mann:
Brittany has that Kingdom thing, and I need to give that Duchy away at some point, for vassal count. I currently hold that title personally. In addition, it makes a kingdom non-inheritable for feudal vassals, so I don't have to worry about super-kings later down the line. It's also pretty big, big enough to maintain itself, right? I've never had a vassal MR before. But it might be too close to Mann.
Now, Holland and Gelre are interesting---and, I hope, far enough from Mann that they won't fight. I've got a dynasty member who owns basically all of Holland personally, and he's been an ass and built castles to fill the empty slots, as the AI loves to do. Gelre still has a few slots. I've also taken two of those three Counties, now held by my vassals; I made one a County-level republic and I'm keeping one feudal, to frustrate whoever I give the Duchy to eventually (No matter what, they'll have a -20 modifier). I've done the same in Brittany, by the way; I personally hold one county, three are held by feudal vassals, and two by mayors.
Interesting thing about Gelre----the last County I need is the farthest from my capital, and it's actually in the Danish sea zone, so it's far enough from Mann that I'd hope setting it up there, rather than the closer County I've given to a Mayor (County of Gelre is feudal), would make the MR expand into the sea zones of the Empire of Scandinavia (they formed as a tribal empire!), expanding my control over trade.
Alternately, Holland would be in my capital's sea zone---does that matter? Note that Holland is going to be much more of a pain to grab for myself, I'll have to fabricate a bunch of claims, but if it's a big difference, long-term, I could see myself doing it.
Interesting bit for both of them: I don't have, or plan on creating, the Kingdom of Frisia title. I think this means that until de jure drift brings Holland/Gelre into England (and Britannia, as a result), that I won't have to deal with the "desires Kingdom of" Malus so long as it's not a de jure vassal of a Kingdom I hold, deferring that problem even though it wouldn't really solve it in the end.
Lastly, Navarra. Like Brittany, it's a King-level vassal, so that's a bonus. And it's on the opposite end of what I'll eventually want as my empire. I figure that if I have three MRs, and I make them Mann, Gelre, and Navarra, that'll leave enough space for each of them to grow, right? But naturally, Navarra's gonna be much harder since it's de jure in the Empire of Hispania, though it'll de jure shift to Francia about 15 years from now. Either way, I'll have to protect it.
Side note on Francia's strength: Even though it's massive, I think I can keep it weak. Except for West Francia, which the Emperor holds, all the other Kingdoms have Elective succession, and are or are soon to be out of Karling hands. There aren't many direct Count-or-Duke-level vassals under the Kingdom of West Francia, either, and I'm nibbling away at those now, since I don't have to fight a King for them now, and I'll have to fight the damn Emperor fro them later. But if I take them now, I weaken the Empire a bit, I weaken the Emperor's personal power a lot, and I strengthen myself, as well. I also have an insane 33 Diplomacy----without adding in the bonus of my Chancellor or wife (who has 20 diplomacy). So when I form an Independence faction, I expect that a lot of vassals will join it, effectively shattering the realm.
I got distracted. My question is this: What combination of MRs will provide the best coverage, the most coverage, that is, while still being very profitable and not too hard to put down(/easy to keep pliable), and without them being, you know, fighting each other all the time? Sorry this post is so dang long!
