Brigade Arrangements

[Syntalynder]

Hello guys, simple questions:

1. Will it be possible to detach Brigades from Division A and attach them to Division B?

2. Will it be possible to attach extra brigades to Divisions at a later date (after they are built) and also detach those Brigades).

Thanks,
-S

 

[Alex_brunius]

That my friend, is the million dollar question.

 

[PIT_AMERO]

Yeah, it would be cool.
What I want is a tool for reorganizing your division, something like that:
"Reorganize my armor divisions from 2arm+1mec to 1arm+2mec+1spart"
That order will start slowly converting all your armor divisions. The AI will build everything necessary, but will put all unnecessary brigades in a pool.
Something like that

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I'm pretty sure that we will be able to reorganize our division on the brigade level. I feel that has been hinted several times.

My big question is whether we will be able to finally upgrade an infantry brigade into motorized and then to mechanized. Light armor into medium and finally into heavy armor brigade.
In the previous games we always had to rush mechanized tech so we could stop building motorized and begin build mechanized. I would rather that we could upgrade lesser mobile and armored units into motorized and/or mechanized.

 

[Markusw7]

in the latest dev diary Johan said some stuff that left open the possibility that brigades could be transferred between divisions but he didn't actually say it was possible. He could just be being cruel to those who really really want the option.

 

[unmerged(131221)]

I said Note the division is still the smallest tactical unit and the land unit and its brigades are indivisible, but for technology purposes the brigades are distinct.

A division fights as one indivisible entity. They move as one indivisible entity.

What has that to do with how you reorganise them?

Well brigades upgrade separately and have their stats (and equipement) separately upgraded. I suppose its possible.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

I personally doubt it if individual brigades can be upgraded from foot to motorized and in turn to mechanized. I may be wrong and if so will be very glad to be proven so.
My sense this is the case, is because, in the view of the division building screen in the DD about that topic, the brigades for foot, motor and mech infantry are differentiated. This is making me think that they are hard-coded by the game system for one of the three major types.
IMHO This is a limitation of the system and there may be a way to mod around it - if so, I'm sure someone will try to mod it in.

 

[Porkman]

I personally doubt it if individual brigades can be upgraded from foot to motorized and in turn to mechanized. I may be wrong and if so will be very glad to be proven so.
My sense this is the case, is because, in the view of the division building screen in the DD about that topic, the brigades for foot, motor and mech infantry are differentiated. This is making me think that they are hard-coded by the game system for one of the three major types.
IMHO This is a limitation of the system and there may be a way to mod around it - if so, I'm sure someone will try to mod it in.

There is a militia to infantry conversion on the first tech DD, so it's possible that brigades could change between types (Inf to Mot inf) within the same division.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

There is a militia to infantry conversion on the first tech DD, so it's possible that brigades could change between types (Inf to Mot inf) within the same division.

I assume you are speaking of the "Militia Conversion" button in the 2nd Tech DD?

So we can research this and convert all of our militia to infantry? And then do a tech to convert all our infantry to mechanized or motorized. All at once with a magic wand? I sure hope not, since that would be unrealistic as heck.

The only way I would buy into such a scheme is if each conversion was separate for each brigade, and it involved significant time, resources and money, as well as an experience loss. Also, I would limit it to being doable only in the national interior.

If the latter were true, then it would be OK and actually cool. That I would indeed buy into.

 

[unmerged(131221)]

I assume you are speaking of the "Militia Conversion" button in the 2nd Tech DD?

So we can research this and convert all of our militia to infantry? And then do a tech to convert all our infantry to mechanized or motorized. All at once with a magic wand? I sure hope not, since that would be unrealistic as heck.

The only way I would buy into such a scheme is if each conversion was separate for each brigade, and it involved significant time, resources and money, as well as an experience loss. Also, I would limit it to being doable only in the national interior.

If the latter were true, then it would be OK and actually cool. That I would indeed buy into.

What experience loss?
When you change trucks to halftracks you loose experience? Or a foot soldier using truck? He doesnt fight on truck but moves with it - it shortens the arrival on frontline and near the enemy positions. What that has to do with experience?

I agree that units should be convereted separately.
OTOH i do not see any special effort into adding trucks to Inf Div. It should work as an upgrade. Another equipement/element is added - its not that the whole brigade is changing.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

What experience loss?
When you change trucks to halftracks you loose experience? Or a foot soldier using truck? He doesnt fight on truck but moves with it - it shortens the arrival on frontline and near the enemy positions. What that has to do with experience?

I agree that units should be convereted separately.
OTOH i do not see any special effort into adding trucks to Inf Div. It should work as an upgrade. Another equipement/element is added - its not that the whole brigade is changing.

Experience loss because one has to learn to work with the vehicles, learn their limitations, learn the tactics associated with optimizing their use, their weak points and vulnerabilities. Drivers have to be trained, mechanics familiarized. New tactics learned and practiced. Procedures solidified and agreed upon. Commanders need to learn how to best use the new equipment and how to avoid problematic situations. There is a learning curve for everything - especially in wartime. It has been said that there is nothing that a good soldier cannot break. Murphy's law applies: anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. Expect a learning curve because that's how things are in real life. Even with simple trucks. Let alone half-tracks.

But then again, if you just want to play a game instead of simulating real history, by all means, allow for instant anything.

 

[unmerged(131221)]

Experience loss because one has to learn to work with the vehicles, learn their limitations, learn the tactics associated with optimizing their use, their weak points and vulnerabilities. Drivers have to be trained, mechanics familiarized. New tactics learned and practiced. Procedures solidified and agreed upon. Commanders need to learn how to best use the new equipment and how to avoid problematic situations. There is a learning curve for everything - especially in wartime. It has been said that there is nothing that a good soldier cannot break. Murphy's law applies: anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. Expect a learning curve because that's how things are in real life. Even with simple trucks. Let alone half-tracks.

But then again, if you just want to play a game instead of simulating real history, by all means, allow for instant anything.

So... Truck driving isnt such a complicatd thing (Im a Truck driver ). Mechanics? Ok thats 1 point for you But its mostly non combat troops. Tactics? Jump of the truck and start what you was learned before. Logistics and support units are mostly involved. Combat troops remain combat troops. They will for sure perform better due to its manoeuvrability. Off course they need some time to get used to it. If there should be some experience loss then a minimal one.
OK - converting Militia into Regulars is something more difficult.
Trucks to halftracks - the other way cause you already have trained men - they just need to change to a slightly different ones.
Ask those who changed their tanks from PzKfw IV to Tigers. Its a change from medium to heavy tank.
I agree there is some time needed but I dont like that experience loss.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

(snip)
I agree there is some time needed but I dont like that experience loss.

Fine - you mod it out, I'll mod it in. Don't you love mods?

 

[unmerged(131221)]

Fine - you mod it out, I'll mod it in. Don't you love mods?

They are my life vanilla is lost when mods are ready.

 

[MontanaPrussian]

I assume you are speaking of the "Militia Conversion" button in the 2nd Tech DD?

So we can research this and convert all of our militia to infantry? And then do a tech to convert all our infantry to mechanized or motorized. All at once with a magic wand? I sure hope not, since that would be unrealistic as heck.

The only way I would buy into such a scheme is if each conversion was separate for each brigade, and it involved significant time, resources and money, as well as an experience loss. Also, I would limit it to being doable only in the national interior.

If the latter were true, then it would be OK and actually cool. That I would indeed buy into.

I agree. This would have to require,I beleive,that the unit/s in question be returned to the 'homeland' in order for this to happen.

 

[unmerged(110317)]

Fine - you mod it out, I'll mod it in. Don't you love mods?

Classic

 

[oribiasi]

I think Experience loss for new reinforcements is crucial to this game. They simply cannot have the same skill or expertise. I hope this element is still a part of HoI3.

 

[Neomann]

I think Experience loss for new reinforcements is crucial to this game. They simply cannot have the same skill or expertise. I hope this element is still a part of HoI3.

I hope too

 

[Peekee]

Interesting I had not noticed that tech on the DD it was very alpha though...

I hope you can reorg divisions splitting them up into brigades and reforming them into new divisions. Yeah, it should not happen in the middle of battle, possible only from cores and them the wait at capital to be reformed? Perhaps doing this would allow you to create new divisions at reduced time and cost? Will have to wait and hope for more details.

Converting MIL -> INF, INF -> MOT, ... idea could be cool as well. It is annoying that motorized units either get out of date or you have to upgrade two tech trees. There have been times as smaller nations where I have considered disbanding INF units to get manpower to build something with a bit more bite.

 

[semaphore]

I would love to be able to disband a division, and then put its brigades together at a capital to form a new one