Breaking the line

[BloodAsp]

I have terrible problems with piercing enemy lines..
Not winning wars per se (90% of the time my 20 width inf will grind enemy forces), but I would like to be slightly more efficient/creative with wars.

The problem might be that I like early wars, so I am stuck with light tanks (usually desperately trying to produce enough of 1936 variant - I use 20 width) and 20 width mot + towed art- performance of both can be summarized in 1 word: meh.

Maybe I should try heavy tanks (they can be builded in 1936)? Or bump mot to 40 width? Or try to create few "assault" 40 width inf divisions?

 

[el nora]

By towed artillery, do you mean motorized artillery? Because otherwise you're relegating the motorized to 4 km/h, which completely defeats their purpose. Regardless, motorized divisions are not for breakthroughs. They are just infantry on wheels, with all that that entails. Their niche is in holding the breakthrough corridor open behind the tanks and ahead of the slower infantry, not in creating the breakthroughs themselves.

Light tanks lose effectiveness to mediums as soon as you unlock them. Mediums cost approximately 10% more per battalion than lights. But they provide 15-20% more soft attack, over double the hard attack, and 3-4x the armor. Unpierced armor accounts for 64% of armored division effectiveness, so if your lights are getting pierced, they're not worth the ic you payed for them.

How early are you going to war?

 

[BloodAsp]

Hi,

1. Towed art = art towed by truck (ie. Mot Art) - apologies for the confusion
2. 1936. To be fair I always make point of fighting countries which are weaker them me (Austria, Turkey, Romania)

BTW,

I just noticed that light tank 1936 has HIGHER Soft Attack value than Heavy Tank 1936 :/

 

[el nora]

Ok, good. But still, mot art is extremely inefficient. Their attack / production ratio is among the lowest of any arty battalion in the game. Support arty and support r.arty both have insanely high attack/ic ratios, which they only get better with SF right, and they can keep up with motorized.

Whom are you attacking in 1936? As what nation? Why are you declaring wars so early? You don't have any good equipment being produced yet. And you have no doctrine researched. Use the time you have available to build yourself up.

Yes, 1934 heavies (there is no 1936 heavy) are useful in very limited scenarios. Specifically if you want their armor and breakthrough but don't care about attacks. Such as in spacemarines. But later heavy models really shine in tank-on-tank engagements.

 

[davor999]

You need soft attack and breakthrough to break lines.
Tanks are good for breakthrough, but you need soft attack, use either motorized artillery or light sp artillery alongside the tanks.

You still should use Mot mixed with the tank divisions for Org otherwise they won’t stay on the attack long enough

40 width tanks divisions are better on the attack because they focuses their fire on one target: Try something like 7 Light tank, 7 Mot, 4 Lt SpArt.
You only need 3 of these in your whole army, if they are focused on a target they will cut through any early war enemy, and then are fast enough to create an encirclement.

 

[Dalos]

20 width light tanks (probably not obsolete ones though) are more than enough.

Maybe you do not have air superiority or CAS?

 

[Cavalry]

learn the art of cheap tank division: 2 tank (for 20w) + the rest cavalry , make sure your tank divisions don't get pierce by enemy infantry, use more tank if you get pierced.

Save the IC for more tank divisions and CAS. When you have too much tank divisions, like 20-40, then you can invest in some more powerful tank divisions for spearhead.

With so much cheap and high Org tank divisions, you can use some strategy like repeating attack until the province broke, rotate tank division for attack, or multiple attack on every weak provinces, even attack into mountain.

The cheap tank is very strong on defend, so you don't need much other defending divisions.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If you're a minor and you just need a line punch, make some 4/4 or 8/8 inf/arty with support arty. Max planning bonus, hit a spot on AI line with < 80 width, and once the battle starts send cavalry or mot in addition so it will enter the province quickly after your attackers win.

Also pin AI units immediately adjacent to this combat, before it starts shuffling line and pins you after you route target province.

If you execute this properly the cav/mot will be able to move a substantial distance unimpeded, unless AI strategic redeploys. Make use of strategic redeployment to chase your cav/mot...if the AI doesn't it won't get there before you recover some org, and if it does then it won't succeed attacking your units.

Going that heavy on artillery makes your unit vulnerable to bad attacks. You can basically only use spearheads or pure micro. But if you use these you can both melt AI's suicide attacks in much shorter timeframe and/or push breakthrough stat above AI's attack using planning bonus while stacking a lot of soft attack.

Artillery is worse than SPG for soft attacks but it's also a lot less expensive and more readily accessible (even equipment capture gives you a ton). 80-120 width worth of regular XP 8/8 infantry/arty will melt target division quickly if you have planning bonus.

 

[Petite]

early war in 36,
any AI has useful tank or Pak to defend your tanks
so any Player need 20 w light-tank-Div to win

 

[TheMeInTeam]

early war in 36,
any AI has useful tank or Pak to defend your tanks
so any Player need 20 w light-tank-Div to win

You certainly do not need that. You can make a case for it being optimal depending on nation chosen, but "need" is not correct.

 

[BloodAsp]

I just tested heavy tanks
I expected enemy divisions to just melt in front of my heavy tanks.
Guess what, thy melted, but only because of my trusted 7/2 inf divisions :/
3 divisions of 6 X Heavy tank, 4 mot, best support I could get, also I made a point of filling all regiments with tanks (IE I really produced those damn metal coffins).

From them mountains of Turkey (I get it, mountains + HT == BAD), to the plains of Romania, to French Rivera my "Steel Behemoths" were:
1. Not winning ANY fights
2. Were defeated on defense of the breach
3. Even got overruned by some Spaniards on Donkeys :/

I microed, positioned them, gave them best commander - literally nothing:/

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If you want to melt stuff with heavy tanks use SPG and xp boost the guns. The soft attack is very high. Also don't use '34 heavy tanks because their stats are bad.

 

[Cavalry]

I just tested heavy tanks
I expected enemy divisions to just melt in front of my heavy tanks.
Guess what, thy melted, but only because of my trusted 7/2 inf divisions :/
3 divisions of 6 X Heavy tank, 4 mot, best support I could get, also I made a point of filling all regiments with tanks (IE I really produced those damn metal coffins).

From them mountains of Turkey (I get it, mountains + HT == BAD), to the plains of Romania, to French Rivera my "Steel Behemoths" were:
1. Not winning ANY fights
2. Were defeated on defense of the breach
3. Even got overruned by some Spaniards on Donkeys :/

I microed, positioned them, gave them best commander - literally nothing:/

Looks like they have shortage of fuel?

To be OK defender you will need to have more Infantry in tank template, to boost defense stats and Org.

 

[davor999]

Heavy tanks are completely wrong for early war aggression. At most you need 1 unit of HT in your division purely for the armor boost.

For the same cost as your Six! HT you could get 40 width LT + SpArt. Your soft attack would be about 3 times higher.

Based on what you are looking for, you need to learn to fall in love with soft attack.
Artillery is your friend.
Test it out, I promise you will be happy,

 

[davor999]

If you really want armor early game then do something like 6 inf, 2 art + 1 HT.
It’s basically an armored version of the 7/2 template that you already know works.
It’s better than your 6/4 division in nearly every way, and much cheaper.

Majority of your division’s armor rating is based only on the single highest armored unit, so just 1 HT gives you enough armor to be shielded against most AI divisions.

 

[Whoman69]

Light armor needs to act in groups of 4 to be effective for breakthrough while medium can get by with 2 or 3. Try to pick weak spots in the enemy defenses. They are not the best to try to cross rivers or in mountain territory. I have had very good luck using them to take the home island of Japan and in breakout in Northern France. You might also be running into fortifications. Use your armor to breakout and then encircle your enemy with pincer movements.

 

[Eisscrat]

All my Wars befor Barbarossa are won in weeks or even days by 20w light tank divisions with 4 tanks 3 mot 2spgs.

So there is no need for heavy tanks at all.
Concentrate your forces and foght the war manually.

 

[BloodAsp]

I tried few times yesturday, and here is what I learned:
For early wars I need something what looks cool and moves fast.
HT looks coll, but it is slow - no dice
MOT moves fast, but is not cool enough
20width light tanks look cool and move very fast - winner. So 20 width 7LT-4mot divisions with all the bling you can afford (art, eng, tank recon, LOG)
I just need to resist the urge to use them in combat, as a matter of fact they should be protected by infantry all the time (tanks don't grow on trees ). Just breach line with inf, and race tanks across with some MOT escort.

Combined arms: INF fights and wins, tanks take all the glory

 

[Simon_9732495]

I just need to resist the urge to use them in combat, as a matter of fact they should be protected by infantry all the time (tanks don't grow on trees ). Just breach line with inf, and race tanks across with some MOT escort.

Combined arms: INF fights and wins, tanks take all the glory

You are missing the point of Tanks. They are best at attacking because of Armor, Hardness and Breakthrough.

If you are attacking with INF and only need something fast to spread out, then use 2width Motorized or 2width Cav. (Or any other smallish width)
You don't need Tanks then.

But you shouldn't. It's way better to use Tanks for attack.
Attack at a spot with good terrain for tanks (plains or hills and not over a river) and have more armor then your enemy has piercing to get the "Armor Bonus" (=+40% Damage)
Also try to have higher Breakthrough than the defender has Soft Attack. Here Hardness helps, because it reduces Soft Attack dealt. Terrain is important because bad terrain reduces your Breathrough value.
You don't need CAS when attacking with Tanks against Infantry that can't pierce you in good terrain. The battle will be over too fast in your favor for CAS to play a decisive roll. However, if you have them use them.
But Air superiority is very important, because if the enemy has it, your breakthrough is reduced end enemy CAS will shred your Tanks.

And read this: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_battle 2 or 3 times a day...


Almost forgot :Have soft attack higher than enemy defense. Air superiority is helpful here as well because it reduces enemy damage.