Brazil conquest of the South Americas?

[Heruure]

So, thinking in case of a MP game with US as a friend supporting me with lend lease and economically, how big of a chance would Brazil have to take all of the South Americas and become a major power?
If so, how long do you guys think it would take? It sounds like an interesting thing to do, making a fortress americas.

 

[kviiri]

I entertained a similar thought. It's not without its problems, especially because the US guarantees all South American countries. I'd think mooching and buttkissing USA enough would allow you to wage war anyway and have them ignore their obligations to a certain degree, but expansionism in South America would probably eventually prompt someone to interfere. But I like the idea and I'm definitely going to try it myself.

 

[Cheesecakeczar]

Wouldn't you have to go fascist since democracies cannot declare war on other democracies?

 

[kviiri]

Wouldn't you have to go fascist since democracies cannot declare war on other democracies?

I don't think Brazil's a democracy in HoI 4. They were ruled by a populist military junta so chances are they're either Fascist or Neutral (Edit: historically, they maintained fairly friendly ties to Germany during the years leading to WWII). One could also stage a communist reaction in the country and create Red South America.

 

[bkuepers]

I thought I had heard that if 2 countries are both guaranteed by the same country and they go to war that there would be no interference. Lots of world tension though.

 

[Aries666]

I did this in HOI3. My approach was to build an army exclusively of 3xMOU+1xENG and 3xMAR+1xENG, this really cuts down on tech required and most of the continent is jungle or mountain. No proper airforce but I did create a 1938 and two 1940 CTF's. Started with 3 IC runs which gave me around 120 usable IC which gave me 3 years to create my forces which was 40 division plus navy. I went to war in 1941 after the Americans were at war with the Japanese. From there it took me a little over a year to conquer south America up to the Mexican border and all of the west Indies. Over the next few years I sank much of the US navy in their rubbish attempts to retake Puerto Rico. I was a very fun game.

In HOI4 a few things will be different, the biggest being that you will be free to declare war without the US intefering (their guarantee no longer applies when it's 2 S.American countries fighting). Based on today's dev diary I get the feeling should be OK, provided too much of the continent doesn't get marked as wasteland. We know that government form is reasonably flexible and in HOI3 they started as paternal autocrat so you mightn't even have to change ideology if they start as fascist.

 

[kviiri]

I thought I had heard that if 2 countries are both guaranteed by the same country and they go to war that there would be no interference. Lots of world tension though.

That could be, but I can imagine the US not being very glad to retain the guarantee if it's so abused :>

 

[LordOfWar16]

I entertained a similar thought. It's not without its problems, especially because the US guarantees all South American countries. I'd think mooching and buttkissing USA enough would allow you to wage war anyway and have them ignore their obligations to a certain degree, but expansionism in South America would probably eventually prompt someone to interfere. But I like the idea and I'm definitely going to try it myself.

They guarantee all of south america and cant intervene in internal conflicts there. They can only protect them from threats from outside. You cant declare war on an guaranteed nation that attacks an guaranteed nation.

 

[Heruure]

I thought I had heard that if 2 countries are both guaranteed by the same country and they go to war that there would be no interference. Lots of world tension though.

Heared the same, this will also be MP in my case with my friend playing US, we have agreed upon a nice split.
I take this and he takes the rest of the americas.

 

[Afganitia]

Heared the same, this will also be MP in my case with my friend playing US, we have agreed upon a nice split.
I take this and he takes the rest of the americas.

Why Yucatán for the USA?

 

[Heruure]

Reason

 

[Denkt]

I would say that you have very good chance to pull it off with US lend leasing you.

 

[nigo]

I don't think Brazil's a democracy in HoI 4. They were ruled by a populist military junta

Wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getúlio_Vargas

 

[Tiaexz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getúlio_Vargas

"dictator, from 1930 to 1945"
"brought to power by political outsiders and the rank and file of the Armed Forces"
"upon the triumph of the Revolution, a provisional military junta ceded power to Vargas, recognized as the leader of the revolutionary movement"

Yup, looks rather fascist. So no democracy issues here.

 

[Heruure]

So, what kinda factory output do you think all of the stuff on my map can pump out? Specially with filled factory slots? Enough to build a US type navy?

 

[Oerdin]

Brazil had pretty low manpower and very low industry while it's techs were a joke. In short, no, it is not likely to do well and would quickly fold the moment a great power stepped in.

 

[Heruure]

Did you notice the part where i said the stuff on the map i posted?
That is all of South America and a bit more...

 

[Oerdin]

Unless they radically rebalanced things in HOI4 compared to HOI3 then even cheating it is hard to do what you propose. I played several Brazilian games in HOI3 and usually the USA AI curb stomps you long before that. I have been able to take all of South America but always got bogged down trying to take the canal zone, got into a bloody stalemate vs USA until they landed on the coast and just cleaned the floor with me because all of their units were better. Brazil just starts off that far behind.

 

[Heruure]

But i did say that USA is my friend...
Also in Hoi4 you can wage war in the South Americas all you want.
If 2 countries are guaranteed by the same country they can wage war between eachother without interuptions.
So its free for all in South America.

 

[Oerdin]

Then you won't get any more manpower from Central America because usually you have to have a land bridge to your capital. I do admit that Central America (rather ahistorically) was an IC gold mine as each tiny country had to have a few IC for game balance reasons.

If you want to pretend the USA doesn't go to war with you, ok, unrealistic, but if it happened then yes you would live and might even be able to build up a decent sized but badly out of date navy by end game.