Brandenburg/Prussia

[Antoine]

I think the difference will not be that the Dutch state won't appear if Spain has a good policy or if dutch provinces are catholic but that it will appear even if Holland is French, English, or even part of a calvinist HRE state.

It can be a specific event or a generic one (a very rich province without a powerful local nobility revolt against a foreign ruler to form a republican state), but the conditions for the Dutch revolt and independance would probably be met by any foreign ruler.

Before being spanish most of dutch provinces have been french and, far before calvinism, revolted a dozen of times against french kings (including support to the english in the beginning of the HYW), then they supported Louis XI against their duke of Burgundy, refusing war taxes, then they asked to be given to the emperor and not France to be part of a less centralized kingdom. They were always against their successive foreign rulers, giving hommage to new powers only to strenghten their independance. If something was written, is the result of a long history and a real national feeling, it's the dutch independance, and calvinism has not be the main trigger.

 

[Bodders]

What I mean with historical event is that certain countries get exclusive events that fire at (or around) some date, provided some conditions are met. I really think such events will be in EU3. Why else would there be country tags? I think the only difference with Eu2 will be that in EU2 the historical events always fired, regardless of the situation. In EU3, it depends on more things. But to say situational events are random is stretching the definition of random too much.

I agree - that gives historical events which fire as long as the situation warrants it. It means the Dutch revolts, Prussia, USA, etc. will be treated differently from 'made up country' secedes.

All that has been said is there will be no events with just date and country as triggers, that seems to have been extrapolated by some to mean there will be no events using either date or country as one of many triggers. Highly unlikely, I would say.

 

[unmerged(9078)]

My example is not a specific example



Why would there be a specific event, just for the Netherlands region ? The forming of the Netherlands wouldn't make much sense if I start in 1453 as Gelre and stay part of the Holy Roman Empire, just as Holland and Frisia

Gelre and the other Dutch provinces stay catholic and the Holy Roman Emperor starts to follow a hard-line against the Protestants in Mecklemburg, taxing them high and depriving them of their privileges. Mecklemburg revolts and the Emperor sends one of his generals the Duke of Lorraine to Mecklemburg to crush the rebellion, but the Mecklemburgers get support from other Protestantsa and stays independent and even conquers Hamburg.

The Mecklemburgers, revive the old Hanseatic League in Northern Germany and a expedition is sent to the East Indies by an explorerer and Mecklemburgs sets up tradingposts on Java and Ambon and starts to control the trade in spices.

Mecklemburg has a very tolerant attitude towards other religions and attracts many artists and scholars to its land, start of the Golden Mecklemburg Century

EDIT
So to follow the subject of this thread.

Why would Brandenburg and Prussia unite ? It might just as well be Saxony and Prussia or Brunswick and Prussia, or Saxony and Pommerania

It might happen, the event triggers and possibilities (Personal Unions) are in the game, but it won't be specific just for those 2 nations I believe

Seconded. I agree to this post. This is how new "dynamic" events should work. And as to the original topic of this thread: Brandenburg Prussia is nothing more than the Hohenzollern, who ruled Brandenburg, inheriting Prussia. Then they pronounce themselves kings in Prussia (in concordance with the emperor). Johan already said that there are dynastic inheritances and that you might rule two sepearate countries through personal union if you did the royal marriages right.

So, in game terms this is only Brandenburg inheriting Prussia and nothing more. I don't know yet if the game will distinguish between counts, dukes and kings as in CK. If it did, then the newly leader Brandenburg-Prussia would create the title of King in Prussia. End of story. There is no great Prussian rebellion or seperation movement or anything that's in any way similar to the Netherlands.

And especially there is no need to hard-code this with an event. Every two countries can get together in personal union. There could also be a Brandenburg-Saxony or anything. And if your National Ideals are militaristic and based on land combat and quality, then your rulers will propably also be good military leaders and your country can become just the same military state as Brandenburg Prussia was

And as far as the Netherlands are concerned, I'll go with Veldmaarschalk here. Any province could revolt against its ruler depending on a number of things. If this is done well, we won't see France, Austria and Poland expanding into Germany, annexing each minor state as they do frequently in EU2.

 

[Registered]

Having general revolt events and systems of inheritance is all fine and well. But that doesn't mean that there cannot be historical events as well. To add flavour to the game. Getting a somewhat random "Province X is demanding it's ancient freedoms back" event just would not be as much fun as an event for the Dutch revolts. IMO that is. Why should we need an event to increase the likelyhood of Brandenburg inheriting Prussia and adopting it's crown? Because the 18th century just is more fun with militarily strong Prussia rampaging the land. Once more IMO.

 

[Bodders]

Yes and to those who have adopted the belief that it will be purely dynamic 'could happen to any country' events, how do you reconcile the oft repeated statements by the devs :-

1) There will be historical events.
2) This is not CK2.

I am sure there will be country specific events (not just tied to date) - without them, it's hard to argue there's any historical events. A few provinces revolting because of similar conditions to the Dutch revolts and creating a new fantasy country wouldn't qualify in my opinion. Neither does a militaristic Mecklenburg forming a 'Prussia-like' state.

 

[Gobi]

I think people are underestimating AI tags and national ideals. A AI Austria will be hard coded to go after a certain victory condition in this case the prestige victory which would mean they would try to become the big white blob through diplomacy. I never thought events made EU2 countries follow history. AI tags did, it said Spain will colonize X spot and England will colonize Y spot. Also national ideas would make AI countries play a certain way I.E. historically. As a player I could diverge from history and change my national ideas and go around messing around the map. I've said it once I'll say it again I don't care if there is a France as long as there is someone to be there to fill the power vacuum. I think how a country like Prussia and Austria will work is that HRE countries will intermarry and will eventually form crazy blob like states in the HRE. Besides following events historically is just weird because it leaves a lot of wait for the event to fire moments.

 

[Bodders]

That's fair enough Gobi but what historical events do you think will be included and how would you implement them?

There are some in EU3, we know that much

 

[Gobi]

I really have no idea what events will be included but here is how I would have the Treaty of Tordesillas.

Triggers

2 countries have the national idea of Conquest of the New world.
X country gets what was traditionally Portugal's core providences.
Y country gets what was traditionally Spain's core providences.
And both get the special Treaty of Tordesillas rules.

So how I would have the event fire is when two counties get the conquest of the New World ideal. So for example Portugal follows the traditional route and gets the National ideal at the start date of 1454. Now 30 years later my country Poland (yeah I have an obsession) gets the Conquest of the New world ideal. Since now two countries have the Conquest of the New world ideal the event fires. Portugal gets it's cores and the special rules of the east side, while Poland gets the west cores that Spain would have gotten in EU2.

So there I just made an event with no country tag or date tag. I'm not a huge fan of that particular event but it was the best example of what I hope the new event system will be. In my system countires race towards certain events kinda adds some more depth to the game. Poland is not the best example because I don't think they will be able to get that national ideal the fastest but hey you never know...

 

[unmerged(60670)]

An interesting idea, but I hope, Portugal and Spain will be the two first countries able to get a national idea of conquest of new world and the Treaty of Tordesillas will fire correctly

 

[Merik]

I'd like to see Brandenburg getting the Prussian leaders even though they did not inherit East Prussia, and that this should apply for other countries as well. Wasn't George Washington in british service at first? Maybe if the english had run better policies concerning North America, the US might never have been formed, and Washington would have remained a british officer.

Bad examples, maybe, but I think you get my point.

 

[Registered]

I'd like to see Brandenburg getting the Prussian leaders even though they did not inherit East Prussia,

Why? If a leader was born in Eastern Prussia and eastern Prussia is a part of Poland then surely the leader should go to Poland? I wonder though whether leaders will have their birthplace defined somehwere like advisors do.

 

[unmerged(19042)]

Why? If a leader was born in Eastern Prussia and eastern Prussia is a part of Poland then surely the leader should go to Poland? I wonder though whether leaders will have their birthplace defined somehwere like advisors do.

Whoah! Whoah! Whats this? Leaders will be tied to provinces of birth? Ho hum someone tell me where Gonzalo de Cordoba (Cordoba?), Pierre Bayard (Savoy?), Farnese (Parma?), Turenne etc were born, so I cna conquer the provinces! Bosnia and Albania would suddenly see there values shoot up then given so many Ottoman commanders came from those two places.

 

[Registered]

Whoah! Whoah! Whats this? Leaders will be tied to provinces of birth? Ho hum someone tell me where Gonzalo de Cordoba (Cordoba?), Pierre Bayard (Savoy?), Farnese (Parma?), Turenne etc were born, so I cna conquer the provinces! Bosnia and Albania would suddenly see there values shoot up then given so many Ottoman commanders came from those two places.

No, i was wondering whether or not that would be the case. Advisors will be tied to a province, giving the province owner the first chance of hiring them. They can go elsewhere if he does not hire them.

 

[Bodders]

So there I just made an event with no country tag or date tag. I'm not a huge fan of that particular event but it was the best example of what I hope the new event system will be. In my system countires race towards certain events kinda adds some more depth to the game. Poland is not the best example because I don't think they will be able to get that national ideal the fastest but hey you never know...

That wasn't unreasonable but as I've said - country and date tags still exist, they're just not the SOLE determinant of events. Why would you have the tags if you never used them? Certainly I could see the Treaty of Tordesillas working that way but let's take a more 'country specific' example - the English Civil War.

Now, presumably, I can start just before it began and become embroiled in the Civil War, with Roundheads, Cavaliers, Cromwell etc. So, events firing for this would, it seems to me, have to be country specific and dependant on the conditions in England at the start. So, if you began in the Grand Campaign and 'mismanaged' in the same way you could have an English Civil War. Some kind of generic 'civil war' events would seem very soul-less, particularly if I deliberately started at a date to experience the ECW.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I'm not sure leaders will work that way. According to screenshots we've seen before (as well as what Johan has said in diaries), you just recruit a general or admiral by using a set amount of land or naval tradition respectively. Presumably, the more tradition you have, the greater the leader will be - so, you could create a couple of above average leaders, or a single uber-one.

Still, don't quote me on that

However, going by the stuff we've all read on the massive historical database that's being compiled, historical generals, admirals, explorers, conquistadors and court advisors should be present in the game for their correct nations. So, if you load up the correct date, England will have Marlborough as a general and Newton as an advisor, but if you were to play from a previous date, England could well have a super general called Peterson, and Voltaire as an advisor