Brandenburg....has anyone ever got it right?

[unmerged(50584)]

Dear All

tried to play as Brandenburg the last couple of games and have to admit that I found it pretty frustrating to play.

The whole point in playing Brandenburg (IMHO) is to become Prussia around the 1700. Now,

I always failed to diploannex Magdeburg at the beginning of the game (take it into my alliance, pushing relations up to 200 etc...but at 1430'ish they keep rejecting my proposals).
Being patient for the first 210 years makes me ending up as a well developed and independent 4-5 provinces duchy(spelling). But,

Prussia in 4 out of 5 games simply disappears (annexed by Poland or Teutonics) within the first 80 years of the game.

All my german fellows rather enter alliances with Austria and France or England (with the consequence being diploannexed at the end of the very first 10 years of their alliances); leaving me in a theater with

France (very big), Austria (very big) and me. Would be ok if Brandenburg has a chance to stand against those hordes of 120k armies but the truth is o I am forced to use multiple cheats seeking to increase my army with mercenaries. o

I don t like cheating. All tips, experiences&tactics regarding Brandenburg (goal is to become Prussia) are welcomed.

Many thks in advance for your help.

ciaoaoaoaoao

 

[unmerged(58575)]

uh yes
it's just to take north germany by yourself and later release Prussia when the event fires ^^ check my MP I play BB ^^

 

[unmerged(33767)]

I just finished a Brandenburg game, maybe the way I played will give you some ideas. Though I did quit somewhere around 1670 since it got boring, I owned most of german culture lands, had colonies in Americas and a dominating alliance of Denmark, Sweden, Russia and Netherlands and so much cash I didn't know what to do with it Keep in mind that I played AGCEEP, so the starting situation is a bit different, namely Magdeburg is already mine, but Küstrin isn't.

First of all I formed an alliance with both Pommeranias and Saxony to make myself look scary for the AI and have some extra punch at the start. The best way to become the master of North Germany is to vassalize and diploannex, but since you are way to puny at the start to have any decent chances to annex, then I suggest the following: wait atleast 20 years before you try to annex, force annex a few minors at the start so you have a better economic base. The BB at this point isn't problem, since you will have plenty of time to shrug it off as you wait to diploannex.

So my game went

- Force annex 1-2 minors, in vanilla Magdeburg would be an A choice.
- Then start a new round of wars and get as many vassals as your alliance can hold, the best situation would be to have 4 allies who are also your vassals.
- Then wait, annex, vassalize the next minors.

Try to get powerful by the time reformation kicks in, becoming protestand will probably hit you hard. Lots of converting, stability issues and the loss of all merchant income is a huge problem. Afterwards it's smooth sailing though.

As for becoming Prussia, just conquer the lands and release it as a vassal at the time the event should kick in.

 

[unmerged(5165)]

With the AGCEEP you don't even have to release a vassal in order to become Prussia. Simply owning the provinces is enough. And I agree with those who spoke before me: Brandenburg is actually one of the easier countries in the game: You get very good leaders and the opportunity to expand without waging many wars. The only big problem in the early stage of the game is keeping Poland in check in case they decide to expand into the HRE. But even that is managable.

 

[unmerged(33767)]

I've never had any problems with Poland, I don't think I've ever been attacked by them in all the games as Brandenburg, usually a royal marriage is enough. In AGCEEP they become pathethic after their nasty events kick in, most of their provinces become 3 base tax value and they can't support a normal amount of troops, as another effect they loose the tech race really bad since they don't have any income.

I actually think that AGCEEP should tweek these events, they are too radical.

 

[unmerged(5165)]

I've never had any problems with Poland, I don't think I've ever been attacked by them in all the games as Brandenburg, usually a royal marriage is enough. In AGCEEP they become pathethic after their nasty events kick in, most of their provinces become 3 base tax value and they can't support a normal amount of troops, as another effect they loose the tech race really bad since they don't have any income.

I actually think that AGCEEP should tweek these events, they are too radical.

Hmm. Still, in my games, unless I am close to them so that I can curb them, Poland-Lithuania always overperforms, integrating huge chunks of the HRE into their own empire.

But you are right, of course, regarding their position in the tech-race later on. Still, you might have to confront them in order to support the TO, and that can be hard in the 15th century, due to their sheer size.

 

[Dspencer]

Brandenburg is one of my favourite countries to play as. I found that what works best is to form an alliance which a bunch of minors, and beat on anyone that is threatening or trying to expand. EX: alot of times poland tries to go to war with pruss/teut/pom/etc at the beginning. This is a perfect time to jump in with your minor allies against poland. Basically attack a country when it's down. Bohemia is a good one to kick the crap out of as well early on. Keep an eye on bavaria and Austria. Also, be patient and watch alliances for when they end. By the early 16th century you should have 10-15 provinces, make sure that austria gets nothing in their inheritance, and you'll never have to worry about them again. If you've gained some provinces from poland, and they're defeated, lithuania usually annexes them, so you can take all the catholic provinces in an easy and quick war.
I generally never attack france, and usually ally with them later on in the game, to help clean up the map.

 

[Mr Me]

I just finished a Brandenburg game, maybe the way I played will give you some ideas. Though I did quit somewhere around 1670 since it got boring, I owned most of german culture lands, had colonies in Americas and a dominating alliance of Denmark, Sweden, Russia and Netherlands and so much cash I didn't know what to do with it Keep in mind that I played AGCEEP, so the starting situation is a bit different, namely Magdeburg is already mine, but Küstrin isn't.

First of all I formed an alliance with both Pommeranias and Saxony to make myself look scary for the AI and have some extra punch at the start. The best way to become the master of North Germany is to vassalize and diploannex, but since you are way to puny at the start to have any decent chances to annex, then I suggest the following: wait atleast 20 years before you try to annex, force annex a few minors at the start so you have a better economic base. The BB at this point isn't problem, since you will have plenty of time to shrug it off as you wait to diploannex.

So my game went

- Force annex 1-2 minors, in vanilla Magdeburg would be an A choice.
- Then start a new round of wars and get as many vassals as your alliance can hold, the best situation would be to have 4 allies who are also your vassals.
- Then wait, annex, vassalize the next minors.

Try to get powerful by the time reformation kicks in, becoming protestand will probably hit you hard. Lots of converting, stability issues and the loss of all merchant income is a huge problem. Afterwards it's smooth sailing though.

As for becoming Prussia, just conquer the lands and release it as a vassal at the time the event should kick in.

You should never forceannex as Brandenburg as taking all german culture provinces will take alot of BB even if you get each province for one or two BB. I played a game as Brandenburg some time ago and it was pretty easy, just grow slowly, vassalize in peaces if you can and then diploannex. Sooner or later you will clash with Austria and once you have beaten them there is not much of a challenge left. I would suggest going into France at that point.

 

[unmerged(50584)]

how do you guys manage to go against those armies at the first 40 years with brandenburg.....

Whenever I go with Poland and Lithuania I find approx 65k in Brandenburg (all those mecklenburg, pommerian etc )......Bohemia (normally allied with austria or Poland )comes along with the same sizes.....short; as brandenburg I have the choice between bankrupty and a lost war in the early years or being the minor partner of a bigger alliance.

Going with german minors......Myself, I can form (30% of my games) an alliance between saxony, würzburg and bavaria or another minor. it goes well till (occasionally) one of your allies declares again war against another minor with its 150k army (however they finance it) and knocks out one after the other of yours. Ending it with a biggie (france, austria etc ) joining him and cutting poor Friedrichs into little pieces :rofl: .

So , I openly admit that (IMHO) leaving things to AI (keep brandenburg smallish ) your risk is to stay little brandenburg till 1820 or you force it (conquering the provinces and release prussia at corrisponding time).

The only flavour to play Brandenburg (IMHO) is the chance to get that prussia event. To dominate Germany I'd rather play France and/or Austria o

Questions remains; how do u manage fighting back those big armies with brandenburgs little ressources?

ciaoaoaooaooa

 

[unmerged(33767)]

Attrition and out sieging.

It's kind of luck dependant at first, while he sieges you, you go and siege his capital. Since most minors have one province and you have two, then you will get a 100% warscore before the AI manages to conquer both of your provinces. Then ayou can demand anything.

Never fight those huge stack!

 

[Minarchist]

As Brandenburg-Prussia, just as in history, diplomacy is the name of the game. Bismarck and Frederick the Great both said they had nightmares of coalitions. You simply must strike a good balance and make sure you dont get cornered. And, if you do, you have to recognize that early and make concessions. About 2 years ago in a game as Brandenburg, I somehow got into a war with Bohemia and its allies, and they had a huge stack and all of that, and I refused to accept defeat, and my good-sized empire soon disintegrated. IMHO, Brandenburg is certainly one of the most fun countries to play because just when you're on cloud 9, with a half a dozen vassals waiting to be annexed, and then you're DOWed by all of your neighbors and your dreams of empire are over--unless you can reforge your empire. You walk a fine line as Brandenburg, but it is a lot of fun.

 

[unmerged(53580)]

If you manage to become Prussia, you'll have fun from 1690 and out, when Dessau comes along, after that you will always have a leader that has at least 4/4/4, 1740-1780 you'll have old Fritz (6/6/6) and from 1760 and out you have Blücher (5/5/5), in addition to several 4/4/4 or similar.

 

[unmerged(47118)]

Branderburg is great. I played it in AGCEEP and I found it easy. At first the only thing you gotta do is force annex some of your neighbours while you find a strong alliance. Beware with Poland and Bohemia although this last one will desintagrate in Romanist an Hussites so they will be busy for a long time.
I had also a great event which gave me cores in Bohemia so after some years I had a pretty good empire owning all North Germany and Bavaria + many provinces in Netherlands and Polonia. I quitted when I forcevassalized France and Austria, things started to get boring as I had nothing better than expanding east through Poland poor provinces and waiting to DA my vassals...

 

[unmerged(31425)]

Dear All

tried to play as Brandenburg the last couple of games and have to admit that I found it pretty frustrating to play.

The whole point in playing Brandenburg (IMHO) is to become Prussia around the 1700. Now,

I always failed to diploannex Magdeburg at the beginning of the game (take it into my alliance, pushing relations up to 200 etc...but at 1430'ish they keep rejecting my proposals).
Being patient for the first 210 years makes me ending up as a well developed and independent 4-5 provinces duchy(spelling). But,

Prussia in 4 out of 5 games simply disappears (annexed by Poland or Teutonics) within the first 80 years of the game.

All my german fellows rather enter alliances with Austria and France or England (with the consequence being diploannexed at the end of the very first 10 years of their alliances); leaving me in a theater with

France (very big), Austria (very big) and me. Would be ok if Brandenburg has a chance to stand against those hordes of 120k armies but the truth is o I am forced to use multiple cheats seeking to increase my army with mercenaries. o

I don t like cheating. All tips, experiences&tactics regarding Brandenburg (goal is to become Prussia) are welcomed.

Many thks in advance for your help.

ciaoaoaoaoao

Ever tried playing Brandenburg-->Prussia in EP? I did a good deal of work on them in EP. I do believe I can correctly claim to have the most detailed and thorough Brandenburg-->Prussia out of all the mods. I used an old AGCEEP version as a base, added more leaders, more historical events, and reworked and rebalanced existing events. Much like the Netherlands, I view them as one of the gems of EP.

Also, once again, I believe I can claim the most successful Brandenburg-->Prussia AI. Since I did the work on them, I cannot recall them being small or weak in a single playtest, nor even in regular games. That AI is not just successful in EP, it is consistently dominant in central Europe, late game included. The Brandenburg-->Prussia AI is often the land tech leader in EP games, including over the human player.

 

[unmerged(50584)]

1.09 vanilla is my version.

And it s not easy to force annex neighbours; not even diploannex them is easy. o

Forceannexing costs me faaaar toooo much money and lives and stab; Magdeburg and saxony are the only ones not in an alliance from the beginning.
Magdeburg is your vassal (so a no-no); saxony I lost always (as they are not willing to leave you a province unless you conquered both of them). I see no point in vassalizing them by war when there is a high prob to get allied with them from the beginning.

Diploannex (regarding the first 20 years); only magdeburg comes to my mind and they (in 12 games) never accepted my offers.

In 12 games I lost a terrible amount of battles (even against rebels); I don t mind too much about it but I'd like to arise the question wheter the amount of lost battles makes a difference in the AI's path of decisions?

I make something like 20-22 ducates a year; I cannot afford going on war. o

Or might it help to leave vanilla and play one of those mods?

Next attempt for me and brandenburg scheduled for today.

many thks for all your support.

ciaoaoaoaoao

 

[unmerged(52468)]

Having just tried playing as Brandenburg I have some suggestions.

Short term: Create an alliance with Madgeburg and Saxony ASAP. Maybe Bavaria too. Then, when Bohemia goes protestant in August, declare war. Don't engage the Bohemian armies unless they're very small and/or just built. Instead start sieging empty Bohemian provinces. If their armies go for Brandenburg or one of your allies then so much the better - that way they'll be out of the way while you lay waste to the Bohemian countryside. Keep the war going until your alliance owns the entire country, then grab every available province for yourself and your allies. This will give you added income and much needed depth.

(Variant: Keep the war going for as long as you can even after you've taken everything. A small force in every province will bring in loot for your treasury or tech advancement, depending on economy slider settings.)

Long term: Avoid force-annexing countries, with the possible exception of Mecklemburg. That's for your patsies, eh, I mean allies. The various German minors almost inevitably start gobbling each other up, not to mention interference from larger powers. This lets you take provinces with less BB.

Get royal marriages and military access from your big neighbors (Poland, Lithuania, Hungary and Austria). That should keep them out of the way for a while, and if they do attack the military access will give you an advantage.

 

[unmerged(50584)]

Done!!!!!!!!!

Kept Magdeburg vassal till well into the second half of the 15th century; alliance with Saxony; Würzburg, Bavaria and sometimes Hannover (was the biggest German the whole game thru); Prussia didn t get annexed by anybody despite the fact being vassalized several times.

Diploannexed Magdeburg somewhere in 1485'ish, kept going on by doing nothing. Poland got annexed by Lithuania; Austria took some provinces from Lithuania (cutting off Poznan from the mainbody). The event (getting prussia) fired in the early 17th century; and a sponsored rebelsum provided me with poznan. With my techs, manufactories and trading a lot of money was made.

In 1740 - 1763 (waited for dessauer and friends) I was able (without allies; except a russian bear entering and leaving sporadic ones) to take Schlesien from Austria/France; Hinterpommern and Kurland from Sweden/ England/ Netherlands; Vorderpommern and Mecklenburg from England/Sweden/Netherlands/Lithuania.

Those wars were repaying more than I expected for the calm and sometimes boring approach the 200 years before.

Incredible what one can reach with good leaders, good techs (4-6 steps ahead of most of the others).

Prussia made it against Napoleon/Sweden/Hannover too, getting back the provinces around the Rhine and vassalizing the rest of german territories.
Won my first EUll game ever.

Many thks for all your assistance, tips and hints.

ciaoaoaoaoao

 

[JakopDalunde]

Great success!

 

[TheMantis]

This topic inspired me to play an AGCEEP Brandenburg game and man, it's gone crazy. Poland diploannexed Bohemia, then Hungary, then (by event) a Lithuania that had diploannexed a 6 province Livonian Order. I did the smart thing and allied them, and now they have Moscow surrounded on all sides by Polish provinces. It's looking ugly for the planned Ricky conversion :|

 

[unmerged(18712)]

Once I played Brandy and the Poles got crazy there too. Around 1670 we fought an epic war for Saxony and Bavaria. By that time I had the Northern German provinces till the Holland border and the Poles even annexed Milan.
By the help of the French we broke the giant and the Wars of Liberations came, liberating the opressed German brethren from under the Polish yoke.

It was my best game so far.