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Sandman25DCSSS

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the rpg aspect of any age of wonder games always was strong. it was always about one leader who level up, clear dungeons and loot items while managing his empire and his army.
and each empires had its own alignement.
I agree. But RPG part is not focus, at least in AoW3 and Planetfall. It was in AoW1, but just because there was no random map generator/city building and you had to play campaigns.
 

Sarmatian

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I agree. But RPG part is not focus, at least in AoW3 and Planetfall. It was in AoW1, but just because there was no random map generator/city building and you had to play campaigns.

I felt the RPG aspect was actually stronger in Planetfall compared to AOW3. Smaller number of cities, smaller number of armies, better city defense and kitting out your armies was more important as well.

Where it failed is in sort of RPG adventure aspect. There was less exploration and adventuring on the map, and hero management was less advanced. They did try to focus on that in later expansions, but it always felt a bit lacking to me.
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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I felt the RPG aspect was actually stronger in Planetfall compared to AOW3. Smaller number of cities, smaller number of armies, better city defense and kitting out your armies was more important as well.

Where it failed is in sort of RPG adventure aspect. There was less exploration and adventuring on the map, and hero management was less advanced. They did try to focus on that in later expansions, but it always felt a bit lacking to me.
I guess you are talking about campaign. Huge random maps with all victory conditions disabled are as close to strategy games as possible IMHO. It is great that players can adapt maps to what they want. I think small maps with colonizers disabled can be close to pure RPG indeed.
 

Sarmatian

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I guess you are talking about campaign. Huge random maps with all victory conditions disabled are as close to strategy games as possible IMHO. It is great that players can adapt maps to what they want. I think small maps with colonizers disabled can be close to pure RPG indeed.

Sort of... I may have expressed myself poorly, though. It's not that I mind strategy aspects. My two favourite game types are strategy and rpg games, so games like AOW or old Heroes of Might and Magic (2 & 3) seem like a match made in heaven.

I found the strategy part a bit lacking. I am speaking about SP, to be precise, I concede that MP might be different. I found that game revolves around decisive battles with limited number of units, and more advanced army tends to win decisively. That in turn promotes putting most of your eggs in one or few baskets, and minimizing casualties. That leads to snowball effect -> more advanced army -> more decisive victory -> fewer casualties which leads to even bigger advantage next time. Your strategic options are kind of limited. You can not delay your opponent properly, let's say by sending a lot of smaller armies for him to deal with because battles don't take time and more advanced army of opponent will defeat them without suffering (almost) any losses.
Since kitting out your army is expensive, you generally win the war if you win the first decisive encounter.

That type of game play is generally associated with party type RPGs. So, it is not that I would mind deeper strategic game. It's just that current game design doesn't do well to promote it, and I ended enjoying RPG aspects more than strategy aspects.

And, yes, campaign was a giant missed opportunity.
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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Sort of... I may have expressed myself poorly, though. It's not that I mind strategy aspects. My two favourite game types are strategy and rpg games, so games like AOW or old Heroes of Might and Magic (2 & 3) seem like a match made in heaven.

I found the strategy part a bit lacking. I am speaking about SP, to be precise, I concede that MP might be different. I found that game revolves around decisive battles with limited number of units, and more advanced army tends to win decisively. That in turn promotes putting most of your eggs in one or few baskets, and minimizing casualties. That leads to snowball effect -> more advanced army -> more decisive victory -> fewer casualties which leads to even bigger advantage next time. Your strategic options are kind of limited. You can not delay your opponent properly, let's say by sending a lot of smaller armies for him to deal with because battles don't take time and more advanced army of opponent will defeat them without suffering (almost) any losses.
Since kitting out your army is expensive, you generally win the war if you win the first decisive encounter.

That type of game play is generally associated with party type RPGs. So, it is not that I would mind deeper strategic game. It's just that current game design doesn't do well to promote it, and I ended enjoying RPG aspects more than strategy aspects.

And, yes, campaign was a giant missed opportunity.
I see the game is too easy for you. I had this ussue too and I fixed it. First I use "more stronger AI" mod so all AIs have lots of tier 3-4 units modded with tier 2-3 mods. Second I disabled diplomacy so everyone is at war with everyone from turn 1. So you just can't expect to deal with enemies one after another. When you capture some colony, your other colonies are poorly protected and AIs invade with superior armies. Third, I don't use factions/techs/npc to generate free armies like Heritor, Xeno or Psi-fish. Finally I don't use tier 3/4 units, even from NPC and rewards. It is really strategy game this way, I spend 10 turns protecting 3 enemy colonies waiting for them to become mine because I can't kill AI and I can't leave the colonies undefended either. I am attacked from all sides so I have powerful armies along all my borders and try to build colonies near edge of the map. No water and disabled victory conditions are very important too.
 

mbuh

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@Sarmatian

What you said so far is interesting.

In regards of a more rpg feels of AoW, i agree with it. But other turn based strategy games is always like that, i mean only in RTS that a unit dead is absolutely acceptable, even a massed of units dead is fine as long as it advances your progress towards vicotory, i never found any turn based strategy games of all genres (TBS, 4x, turn based grand strategy, etc) that can match this feels of RTS in that aspects. From game developer perspective, Real time just have less closed system, which means much more unpredictable possibilities, thus it is in a way more forgiving in some aspect but more punishing in other aspects compared to turn based strategy.

Also, you just made me realize that there is no adventure mode (like in AoW3) in planetfall, that or i miss something. One of my favorite thing about AoW3 is adventure mode with no town but only dwellings in SP game, the early game part is sometimes more boring than non adventure type settings, but it gets interesting at mid to end game.

Other interesting topic you raise is
I felt the RPG aspect was actually stronger in Planetfall compared to AOW3. Smaller number of cities, smaller number of armies, better city defense and kitting out your armies was more important as well.

While this is true. Why there are fewer armies in planetfall compared to AoW3 is because of the side effects of sector based map systems.

If we look at the largest map size in planetfall compared to the largest one in AoW3, in one layer (so no UG), in terms of total hexes, they are roughly equal if not equal, someone has compared long ago when planetfall first released.

What make planetfall has fewer cities total is because city can only be placed in sector and occupy a sector. While a sector is comprised of multiple hexes, this in turn limit the total number of cities in planetfall. I have repeatedly bring back this topic in this forum back then, but only few people seems interested in discussing this.

This is also why strategic spells according to some forum members are weaker in planetfall compared to AoW3, equal tier compared, because the total points to use it is fewer. I mean both AoW3 and planetfall cities can boost this points, each city can have one booster (grand palace in AoW3, i forgot the name in planetfall, but it's in defense sector type), but AoW3 have higher limit of total cities that can be build in equally sized maps results in AoW3 allowing strategic skills to be used more frequently per turn compared to planetfall.

Another side effect of that is, the total number of unit producing sites is higher in AoW3 than in planetfall, due to AoW3 can have more cities. Which means stacks loses are very acceptable, not in the scale of RTS game, but at least in the direction of that.

Short words, the down side of sector system is it make the game scope smaller in a sense

However, good thing is planetfall allows us to mod the size of sectors, making sector's size smaller allow more cities to be build in any map size compared to default sector size, but the drawback is it will be a massive toll on our PC, massive lag, frequent crashes and infinite loops, etc after turn 60. I think that is because the dev never intend it to be that way
 
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johnny54321

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I know the AOW series is highly combat based but it would be nice to have more on the empire building non combat side of things. I love the setting of AOW and it could be awesome to have the option for a more a peaceful game.

The unity beacon while a nice idea and addition feels somewhat out of place without some sort of supporting empire building behind it along with strategic resources and trade/trade routes. Having a reason to build and trade is a reason to establish relationships and not go to war. Right now diplomacy is more like hey lets be friends, but with not a necessarily a lot of reason behind it other than I don’t want to fight you right now. If you had trade with other factions there would be less reason to fight.
 
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o8livion

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With the recent announcement of ‘Master of magic’ remake, I immediately reinstalled AoW3 and playing every time I get the chance, since. I remember it as a great revival of the series and my memory was correct. I’m still having a great time with harder difficulties on a huge map, where I craft my own stories as I play.

With the conclusion of the Planetfall, I believe it’s quite certain to expect a new AoW game for 2 reasons.

  • In the foreseeable future, there are no major titles for high-fantasy turn-based 4X game. Aside from Master of the magic of course but because of the investment limitations, I don’t believe it’s going to be presentable enough for a wide audience, even though it can be quite an entertaining game for the niece audience. Amplitude, Stardock, Mohawk, etc… all making historical or else but not high-fantast setting.

  • Paradox factor. Paradox has invested quite a large sum over the past 3 years and they are nowhere near what they are hoping to be. Many investments are turned out unsuccessfully. As the CEO has spoken; they expect more profits and I believe they are going to push more DLC and new games for 2021-2023 than their last 3 years.

So, for these reasons, I believe Triumph has already started pre-production after the hiring of (sorry I forgot the name) a developer from Amplitude and I have some feedback I hope Triumph would at hear to… so enough distractions, here are my feedback over the AoW3 and Planetfall.

  • The Tile Question

The third installment was around hexes and it is now the current way of doing things. As for Planetfall, it introduced regions but it isn’t like Endless Legend. More like a bigger filled with filler, smaller hexes. I always found the world at Planetfall boring and I never figured it out why (maybe because I didn’t play that much) but since I reinstalled the AoW3, I finally understood why. Because it doesn't feel organic. It feels too arbitrary as a level design.

In the classic AoW series we get to see the organic rivers, beach, then plains. High mountains covered with forests, snow happening, and each of them has buildings or delves randomly generated. This felt good. I hope you will keep it for the fourth game.

  • Resource Management

Every magic mana should be separated. The game uses only one single mana and it’s not that important with mana nodes you control. The design is already there with a variety of creatures and spells. The only thing left is balancing and reworking on the resources.

The generic mana should stay as it is BUT Air, Earth, Fire, etc… all would offer their own resource and this unique resource should be spent wisely. Every special mana node or a certain type of building should give a single that special mana resource.

Ex.

If you control 2 air mana nodes you will still get +20 to your mana but the player should also be getting +2 air mana. And maybe the player would spend this on a great magical creature or a powerful spell or build a building. This resource shouldn’t accumulate but play as a “hard cap” to do Über-powerful things

  • Population

I believe it’s time for more complicated city management. Rather than having one race for each city. Multiple races could migrate to a city. Having multiple races in a city should give many more options but control would be much harder as the unrest should raise via, terrain features or else.

It shouldn’t be only forced though via action. If a (let's say) dwarfs are unhappy in a human majority city. After certain turns, the dwarfs should migrate to another player, opponents, natural, and lastly create their own city/delve.

With this the game level is going to be more dynamic and create more new stories, even though the player explores every tile; the population should be changing.

Army recruitment should cost population (in question) also.

  • Party management

In the first games, party management was a thing. The player was spending a small time, composing their party because of the morale penalties via mixing a lot of races. If an empire tolerance is high enough the more powerful parties the player can create (because of the strength of every race, meeting a single party) therefore it should be more rewarding to be able to create greater parties. Also, the size should be increased by 2 or more and the reasoning is coming next.

  • Staying true to senses

AoW3 make new graphical changes to the units and now we see the whole regiment fights the same power as a regiment cut in half. This needs to be fixed in the next game. Reminding you that this is the first time I use “fix” word. Because it really messes up the perception of the players.

The simple and most logical fixing would be the design of the Warhammer 40K Gladius. Unit damage was based on the number of units left.

For the singular unit(a great demon or whatever mid-tier-boss-level unit) fix, the HP should host levels of thresholds. With every threshold passes, the singular unit should receive a penalty for something.

That's how the regiments and singular units should be more balanced but most importantly make sense and maybe the hero units shouldn't be affected by these changes to make them slightly more unique.

  • more powerful spells are needed

looking at it now, realizing AoW campaign spells should be more impactful to the world. From blasting volcanos to overflowing rivers damaging units or cities. There really should be more terrain affecting spells. Creating impassable storms, crashing waves changing tiles into the water, earthquakes affecting both underground and top, maybe even creating new “stairs”

Really powerful spells should be in the game I think. Just like Master of Magic.

oh if there would be a 4th part of aow i would be absolutely into it again.

i actually do not really care all too much about balance, i want my units to "feel" fun. so even if i understood why the ranged mechanics and some other units bahaviour as well as cost are as they are, i would have liked things even stronger in their field of specialty, like elves ranged attacks having more range additionally, or the necros resurrect corpses and priests heals with cooldown instead of once per turn.

PLANETFALL:
for planetfall, i somehow understand your opinion, it has by far not the cool flair of the fantasy setting, and the regions can be bothersome when u have too cross a region of anotther faction to reach your target, they dont even feel right, but there is one point i really love about it: "my empire", where i conquered these and those planets and with the so found artifacts, advantages in tech and racial opinion. what great improvement. i can even imagine advancing that part to an interactive campaign. imagine the possibilities... a world map, full of continents and kingdomes inhabitet by the different races, where u expand your territory as well as the others do and u can invade them and so do they with u, diplomatic alliances, maybe even spying, stealing info aboutt cities characters, wuests to assassinate heroes, or influencing via spies... might be aow on a whole new level, and i donno if it would destroy the feeling aow has, but as an additional option, an endlessplaying mode there could nothing be wrong, right?

STRONGER MAGIC AND STRONGER TERRAIN EFFECTS:
yes, creating volcanoes sounds awesome, as long as there would be a real influence by that, like they actually spit lava, create lavarivers, damage armies by hitting them with lava or because of the toxic stuff they throw out... i would iove to see strong magic indeed. iceage, reducing foodincome and production to a point of negation, depending on how suited the race is for that climate. expanders could get a trait that reduces the effects of climate on units and cities for higher upkeep costs for example.

THE TILE QUESTION:
hexes without regions.

POPULATION:
multiple races in one city? okay, sounds interesting. but, since that city would be able to produce dwarven firstborns, elven archers, dark elf repeater ballistas anddrakonian flyers, there should be some kind of restriction. like, when cities grow, they add an additional tile they use on the worldmap. in some way like it was in aow1, except for cities can grow. every tile can be populated with a race. and the max tier you can produce from that race would be the number of tiles they inhabit in that city. for each race some unrest, resulting in less income/production, okay, and peacekeepers could negate the negatives effects. i was a fan of racial alignments, which would mean that its way easier to manage an elven-dwarven than a goblin-dwarven city. reimplementing undead and archons would mean that even peacekeepers might be always oont the verge of revolt in ccities with that combination. which brings me to my next point...

RACES:
humans, draconians, orcs, goblins, elves, dwarves, DARKELVES, UNDEAD, ARCHONS, SHADOWDEAMONS, ...
tbh, i never played humans in part 3. but they are essential. goblins... well, i guess they are too. but not implementing darkelves? thanks to arnout we got a template mod for that. i like the necro mechanic, but i honestly wouldnt miss it if there would be undead as a faction again. i liked the reaper, the vampire, the resurrecting zombie, the style... and for shadowdeamons, the harvester was soooo cool... i would be happy to see them again, maybe as INSECTA, leaving DEAMONS for diablo-like or warhammers deamon-like badass fear-infusing monsters, i mean, come on, angels are already there, they could be high tier acrchon units. and, how about SKAVEN?

PARTY MANAGEMENT:
how about the max size of units within a party depends on the leadership skills of the partyleader? like there is no limit to spots a party can have, but every unit needs some leadership points and your partyleader only has a certain amount of? would not even necessarily havr to be heroes, for example dark elven spider queens or the shadowdeamons brains could have a lot of leadership points. supporting units may have that too. goblins simply do not need lots of leadership points because they are simpleminded enough and easy to control. some races should reflect that they are only strong in masses, so individual units can have lower stats compared to other races. goblins as prime example could therefore produce 2 units at the same time, like starcraft zerglings.
and why is having multiple models per units a thing since civ? it never had a real impact anyways, it was just not logical that the last survivor dealt the same damage as when it was a squat. how about an upkeep per model? i pledge for back to the single figurine, with more details on the model.

RESOURCE MANAGEMENT:
what u sugguest is basically an addition to the system fallen enchantress uses. im not against it, quite contrary, the more complex the better, but i think, as i specialize in one magic, there should be a way to convert the nodes then. OR you start with spells from your specialization researchable, and unlock the research of other magic types by reaching node threshholds...? you could even develop noddes from the type of your specialization... anyways, summons and spells of a certain magic type should then also need that specific mana, but with only one income of that? how about the magic the gathering-like cost, meaning that spell needs all in all 5 mana, but at least 2 of them have to be red mana, same could go for upkeep. i somehow always return to the thought that some kind of converting has to exist.
another aspect of ressources are the structures in your domain, and it always bothered me to not get the max out of my units (until the league of extraordinary builders mod came out) because this or that structure wasnt there or didnt even exist on the whole map. with the "my empire" mode form planetfall, where u get longterm benefits from racial things and research tech, this could be a solution. how about the builders you produce can create structures on the worldmap, taking more than one turn? and that each city can only have/use a certain number of structures in its domain (converting rulz again). expanders (or builders if that specialization exists) could have technologies that gives them additional boni somehow.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:
normal units developing to (minor?) heroes on some rank after gold, keeping their skills.
shadow world as layer again -kind of the astral plane in shadowrun, with shadow shift again
multiple underground layers (fist more earthen, can create tunnels, second almost only stone, only dwarves may build tunnels)
heaven and hell as layers
a more comfortable editor and paket manager (even tho it really is not bad at all as it is in part 3, it is powerful, provides lot of possibilities, but both feel clunky)

AGE OF WONDERS 4:
well, the truth is that turnbased 4x games are not that popular compared to fps or even rts.
so, realistically, if a company decides to make a project as big as some here... well at least me, would hope for, it would cost probably more than it would return, at least in the first months, maybe even years. too bad money is always an and mostly the issue why things are not even started or dumped pretty fast.
knowing paradox, i bet a 100€ straight that it would be released unfinished with lots of dlc to cashcow and probably only implement things to a certain degree, whereas we could only hope for triumph to implement at least tools again to mod the rest into it. i do not necessarily hate the concept of dlc, but looking at cities skylines it feels like "okay forget it, i wanna have one game not 100 packages".
so what would be a justifyable price for a game like that? looking to starcraft 2 with its 40-60€ at the beginning and f2p now, the expansions... and thinking about inflation and everything gets more and more expensive, i guess a 100€? considering there has to be years of developent (or is the engine good enough still to just make new models etc?)... i cant tell. it seems at least that aow3 was no flop, at least not enough to make triumph bankrupt, so there seems to be a large enough group of tbs 4x still. so, will it be developed, ...? i hope. i think there could be a survey for this to check if there would be enough buyers. what is personal advertisement and datacollection good for if not that? =)
 
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o8livion

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I don't necessarily agree with reverting back to the old system. I think that the sector system just needs a few "tweaks" to improve it rather than it needing to be scrapped entirely. Really, the big issue is the general lack of interactive components on the strategic map. There need to be more "widgets" that interact with army movement and resource generation in each sector, and then the sector system will likely feel more meaningful.

To its credit, the sector system elegantly solved several major issues with previous iterations of the series (and some ongoing problems with HoMM):
  • City spamming
  • Single unit resource generator claiming
  • Micro-scale terraforming
  • Random map generation "stamp" placement.
I strongly think that you can make sectors feel more "organic" with more content and improved algorithms.

okay. maybe u sectorfans are right on this one. it has its upsides, even tho optical ones imo. it looks better when the terrain isnt so abruptly changing.
after all i just dont miss sectors since i reinstalled aow:sm and aow3.


Finally, I really liked strategic enchantment spells on units in past AoW games. It felt great to specialize as an enchantment-based caster over a summon-based caster in some instances. I know that mana upkeep often was tedious to manage, so perhaps enchantments could be permanent without upkeep costs? It would make tactical and strategic dispelling more useful, and enchantments could perhaps be a "mod-spot" on unit cards in the future.

agreed to some degree. unit enchantments should not be permanent, but have an upkeep, but under circumstances there could be a reduction in costs, for example, casting unholy champion on an evil aligned unit...


I really like the unit mod system in Planetfall. The implementation was fantastic, and the unit mods more often than not provided interesting unit features in addition to general unit improvements to damage or durability. If there is an AoW4, I hope that this system returns as an "equipment" system using a similar philosophy. If there could be a way to "cast" spells as permanent enchantments on units as well, this would be fantastic. Finally, if the unit champion leveling system could return as well, it would be very welcome!

hm. i think equipment doesnt necessarily exclude racial modifications. like you could equip armor, weapon, helm, boots, belt, amulet rings on units, but why cant some form of evolution occur (magical rituals, medical treatments, or just because they specialized as a tribe)?
 

o8livion

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but if they dont return to normal hexes and keep the sectors, there should be more flexibility. in aow2 and sm the townportal was huge nice endgame stuff. if i have to use a sector just for that, i want to be able to rearrange cities and these production/food/research-thingies into other sectors too.
 

Sarmatian

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but if they dont return to normal hexes and keep the sectors, there should be more flexibility. in aow2 and sm the townportal was huge nice endgame stuff. if i have to use a sector just for that, i want to be able to rearrange cities and these production/food/research-thingies into other sectors too.

I'm not sure I understand - you want to be able move cities from sector to sector?
 

o8livion

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yes. u see, when i cant spam cities, i wanna get at least the max out of those i have.

edit:
to be more precise: when the sector functions as a limitation against city spamming, i want to be able to transfer my cities not only to other sectors, but also the hexes i choose, and if i have to build a settler for it- okay. then i want to reconnect sectors to it, being the same or different ones. plus, i want to be able to do that with the facilities that make sectors to lvl 5 research/production too, but not necessarily. or, 1 city per sector, with the growth mechanic i posted above. at the end of the day its triumphs decision. but after all, i still dont count that sector mechanic as part of aow, since aow3 is the last i really count to it. planetfall, where sectors were introduced, is something different for me. and i wouldnt miss it if its not included in part 4. looking at how big the aow:sm community still is, i guess the sectors are not needed. if there would be a way to make them optional, i would say go for it. but many games have that, and none is quite a stunner imho.
 
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BloodyBattleBrain

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I wanna be Nagash, Sauron, Malekith or Sigmar
:)

This is an interesting thread.

For my money, on a meta (as in overview) level, I want an AoW game that is dynamic.

By dynamic, I mean:
  • changes over the course of your playthrough, AoW games kinda had this with unlocking new spells and units via magic book and cities, so more of this please)
  • feels alive (especially want things like independent cities to be doing their own thing instead of existing just for like they did in AoW1, 2, SM and arguably AoW3.

Ofcourse, many mechanics, but we could talk all day about this or that mechanic and implementation...
 

Liberty_Valance

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If its an aow4 here would be my wish list
- Update the morale system a huge space of improvements, have races have morale eg, goblines 60, humans 80 dwalves 100 etc Routing mechanics if killed enough enemies, debuffed enough. Hope to move away from just the fumble and crit chance to something more fitting like panic, cowering, retreating.
- Terrain tactics, if one party on plains overay is attacking another party on mountains/hills on the strategic map let each keep thier benefits on tactical eg party on hill could have a higher ground bonus, plains could have a movement bonus. Each tile have benefits and negs eg, river, forest etc.
- 3 way fights (not allied) or more, doesnt matter if the ai is a little funky i think spice up a battle if a nearby indie can join in and attack either party.
- Make tactical maps more interesting with pick ups, strategic point captures, random npc's.
- Have items that are non combat focused, eg a diplomats sash giving bonuses to certain races, a prospecting pick or golem kit able to build golems in a nearby city. Also have item and mount resitrictions for certain races. We could finally get a monster hero!
- have a day and night system, weather system and continue with an event system
- make races more unique with thier own race mechanics, eg dwalves build forges and make items, humans can have elect a king a volunteer vassal system etc.
- have unit statistics, attacks made, kills, hits taken, heroes killed and have them gain unique traits when reaching benchmarks
- if just two players in multi have one be able to control enemy AI and or an intuition system having turns depending on how quick a unit is instead of moving a whole side (it gives too much of an advantage and makes combat more stale)
- A more far fect but would love to be able to play as mercenary system where you can play as a warband and be hired by factions having an adventuing system, you cant capture cities unless your hired and when you do you give the city to the payer whom your working for.
- Have a loot sytems (could be built into empire mode) where you could have a stash of items and units from previous fights join you in the next battle (could use empire credits to unlock these)
- and if all the others above not possible please have race city layouts individualised!

Things from previous games
- No more fixed tech trees - aow3 had a better research system allowing for branching and refreshing gameplay
- No fixed sectors aow3 had better system of carving out yout own kingdom than the preset fixed locations of planetfall. Being able to create choke points and making roads that were useful.
- move away from classed systems (or be able to duel select) better to be able to be a hybrid class allowing for more theory crafting such as dreadnaught necromancer or a sneaky wizard.
- Mods, Empire mode, hazard and Object markers, othabound city mechanics are the best thing from planetfall empire mode if better fleshed out and able to use in multiplayer would be a major interest.
- aow3 had a better melee system able to play aggresive defence planetfalls never made much sense. Aow3 channel resistance was easier to understand planetfalls was unclear what was going on.

I think that pretty much covers most of my personal wants
 
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