Brainstorming for Napoleonic Victory Mod

[General_Grant]

Hey, I had almost the same ideas two weeks ago (but never started anything)

Suggestions:

1. Italy:
-Parma should be French, and Lucca eitheir French or a French Satellite (it was ruled by Elisa Bonaparte, not by Etruria.

Even nicer Etrurian flag:

(yeah its labelled as 'monarch' but its the historical one)

2. Quebec: Why are the two south province of Quebec part of the US? I live there and I say that its a very important part of it, its almost fully French speaking. The appalachian mountains are a MUCH GREATER natural border that the St-Lawrence is, as the river have alway been the central axis of communication in New France and Canada prior to industrialisation. I'd sugest giving the two provinces back to Quebec, and maybe even Acadia (New Brunswick+ the northernmost province in Nova Scotia), because it still have an important french-speaking population and was part of New France.

You could compensate those losts of territories to the US by giving away the northernmost provinces of Quebec wich were part of Hudson B. Company and where the Frenchs had little or no interests

Historically the province of Quebec extented as far as the Missisipi and the Ohio rivers so cores or events to gain them would be realistical (only in the case of a Quebec backed by a very dominant France, wich is the case)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_territorial_growth_1775.svg

Don't think I make those claims because its my country, but thats historically plausible (in thie historical setup of course) and would add tensions & interest to the region (and somewhere outside Europe for France to spread its influence.)


--
Switzerland:
-Geneva could stay Swiss (it makes a more interesting border too) (see map under those lines)
-Neuchatel could still be Prussian (add a little bit of interest into the Swiss/French border)

Germany, based on observations on this map:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Rheinbund_1812.png

The Netherlands and the North Sea shore of Germany could be French, as they were in the Napoleonic Era. However Napoleon mostly needed the coastlines to enforce the continental system, now that its over, maybe it would not be needed anymore. you would either:
1. Give all those lands to France
2. Netherlands satellite (important to have a Dutch state, because of its colonies), but French North Sea Coast.
3. A Dutch satellite+ a new state in the north of Germany, that did not exist historically but would make sense. Maybe call it Hanseatic Confederation? (it does include the cities of Lübeck, Hamburg and Bremen after all). Use the Lübeck flag for this state if you accept this sugestion. This state could eventually be annexed by Wesphalia.

Oh and Norway should be Danish (and Denmark have Norwegian culture added) because they lost it at the Congress of Vienna (they were allied with France, they would have close relations)

 

[Taylor]

Yes, maybe restore the Netherlands as a satelite. Except province of Maastricht because historically, everyone considered that province as part of the Southern Netherlands (Belgium), and it was only given to the Netherlands after the Belgian revolution.

 

[unmerged(81390)]

Wow, that civil war in Britain looks interesting!
This entire mod does!

I think many Dutch and Portuguese colonies should be British though. Even if Napoleon could defeat Britain, I doubt he could take full control of it's overseas territories

I like what you've done in America, but should the CSA be independent at start?

 

[Varning]

Feedback! Awesome!

Looks fun! But why is there a CSA? How does Nappy winning his war relate to the US splitting up?

A more successful war of 1812 with US gaining Canadian lands and the lack of a weak Mexico (since the Spanish empire maintained its strength) to expand into resulted in an early slavery crisis, with a peaceful split. The two countries are on relatively good terms, not having to live in the same country as slavery significantly lessened the fiery rhetoric of abolitionists.

(Plus its more interesting than the usual monolithic US which would be even larger thanks to no UK!)

Just to note, the northernmost Chilean province should go to Peru and the second and third northernmost ones should go to La Plata.

Thanks, I didn't know who those should go to and guessed Chile. I'll fix that.

Parma should be French, and Lucca eitheir French or a French Satellite (it was ruled by Elisa Bonaparte, not by Etruria.

Napoleon took away Etruria from the Bourbon-Parma's with the promise of Northern Lusitania (which they get in this timeline), annexing Etruria into France. I'm assuming that after the war, he restored Etruria under Elisa, who assumed the title Queen of Etruria and Grand Duchess of Tuscany.

That flag you posted I have as the one for a possible monarchist revolution if it happens to Etruria.

I'd sugest giving the two provinces back to Quebec, and maybe even Acadia (New Brunswick+ the northernmost province in Nova Scotia), because it still have an important french-speaking population and was part of New France.

You're probably right when it comes to the two southernmost provinces of Quebec. As for Acadia, I'm under the impression that many Acadians were expelled or left after the Seven Years' War and the area was settled by both Americans and British. I think the rather expansionist US would be fairly demanding of at least those areas. Adding the cores and possible Quebec expansion is definitely a good idea.

-Geneva could stay Swiss (it makes a more interesting border too) (see map under those lines)
-Neuchatel could still be Prussian (add a little bit of interest into the Swiss/French border)

I had already found that map you posted, and that's where I based my determination of the French-Swiss border. In that map, Geneva is Swiss but its a small peninsula in a sea of France. So I suppose it depends on whether the province Geneva in Vicky represents largely the city or the surrounding countryside. As for Neuchatel, Napoleon took it and I doubt he would give it back, especially to Prussia. But there could be events for France and Switzerland which result in the return of cantons (Neuchatel and Geneva, if kept French) in exchange for French control over Switzerland; similar to how Frederick III tried to control the Swiss by making Neuchatel a canton.

3. A Dutch satellite+ a new state in the north of Germany,

Yes, maybe restore the Netherlands as a satelite.

This is the option I'm going with. Napoleon never completely annexes his brothers Kingdom of Holland, so we have a Dutch dependency with considerable colonial power. As for North Germany, in an attempt to appease Alexander I, Napoleon restores his cousins as the Grand Dukes of an expanded Oldenburg. Hamburg, Bremen, and Lubeck were considered free cities within the Confederation of the Rhine and thus get their autonomy back.

Oh and Norway should be Danish

Yep, Norway and Sweden belong to the Danes, who have reunited the old Scandinavian kingdoms in the face of a powerful France.

I think many Dutch and Portuguese colonies should be British though.

My justification for that is the UK retained many of its colonial possessions after the war, but the increasing unrest and chaos leading up to a civil war are what led to a collapse of colonial power. It's not that their colonies were all taken after the war, but in the twenty or so years between the war and game start, while the UK was mired in social unrest.

I like what you've done in America, but should the CSA be independent at start?

One reason is simple playability. The total number of nations in the world has been reduced and I'd like there to be options so that one doesn't have to start as the US, wait for a secession event, and then switch which country they are playing.

Plus, it doesn't seem that unbelievable to me. Slavery was in some ways the elephant in the room for the US until the Civil War. They will only have broken off shortly before game start (maybe with Calhoun as their first president!) Plus, I have some interesting ideas for events for the CSA, especially if they keep slavery for a long time. Imagine if a slave was allowed to read Marx... Then think of another slow to change, largely agricultural nation which relied on forced labor...

 

[yourworstnightm]

Civil War in Britain is nice, will the United Kingdom become Scotland if they lose England??? What about Wales???


In America the Confederates this early seems kind of weird..... What about total Balkanization when you're on to it. And where is Louisiana???

New Spain, I guess that was what the Viceroyalty was called, I just hope there will be some smart people taking over it who rename it to Mexico.

 

[Taylor]

I just had a thought... During the Victoria timespan there was always a fear from Britain that Russia might try to threaten their Indian empire. Of course, in reality, this never happened because the UK was just too strong, resulting in buffer states Persia and Afghanistan being guaranteed by both. But with Britain out of the picture, Russia has practically a free hand in central asia, and india...

Btw, will there be events for when the Royalists win the UK civil war, to let them try to get some colonial possessions back?

 

[unmerged(81390)]

I just had a thought... During the Victoria timespan there was always a fear from Britain that Russia might try to threaten their Indian empire. Of course, in reality, this never happened because the UK was just too strong, resulting in buffer states Persia and Afghanistan being guaranteed by both. But with Britain out of the picture, Russia has practically a free hand in central asia, and india...

Russia would definatly try, but will Persia be stronger?

Napoleon promised Alexander that they would liberate the Balkans sometime, and Russia would get the Donau principalities.
Perhaps France should have Egypt? Or perhaps an independent Egypt, allied to France?
If the ottomans were weaker, Persia would be stronger. Perhaps re-conquering Mesopotamia after a hundred years?
To do this they'd need to modernize a bit though, and to do that they'd need a European ally...

That could be Russia of course, but they might be more interested in directly conquering Iran. it could be France too, but if Egypt is independent/French occupied France would focus on Egypt instead.

Perhaps the Dutch/the UK/East India/British Republic?

 

[Taylor]

I think a plausible European ally for Persia would be France, because Russia is probably the strongest nation after France. If the Russians would conquer Persia and/or India, there's a danger that Russia becomes stronger than France, and they can't allow that of course.

In the Napoleonic time, France might have been able to buy Russia's neutrality (as is the alternate history line in this scenario), but this can't last forever (Russia and France would both be ambitious and automatically become each other's rivals).

Perhaps Persia should be guaranteed by France, and there should be a Franco-Russian war over the area at some point.

A French-protected Egypt sounds very plausible. Even IRL they tried to protect it, just imagine what they would have done if they were more powerful.

 

[Vesimir]

If Napoleon would win the war with Britain (assuming that he didn't attack Russia) he would gather his armies on the eastern border and change the Duchy of Warsaw to the Kingdom (or duchy) of Poland. (The main reason it was called duchy of Warsaw was not to anger Russia, Austria and Prussia which promised that Poland will never again be a free state. With Napoleon winning the war against Britain he would focus on destroying Austria, making Prussia his vassal and showing Russia he's the new boss in Europe.)

Poland would probably gain a lot of it's former lands and turn into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as it was before. (Poland was Napoleon's biggest ally. Actually they were the only people allied with Napoleon out of their free will, the rest was conquered and made fight for Napoleon.)

Gdansk (Danzig) and the areas around it, Lithuania as we see it in EUIII would be brough under the polish rule.

Now something else so you won't think i'm just an angry nationalist.

East Indies under the rule of nobles and wealthy bussiness people would be a good idea. They would of course try to take over India and Indochina and establish themselves as the biggest trade power in Asia. Some nobles would of course want to take back Britain but they would be opposed by the rich guys because they would lose much of the land they had to the crown.

How about a pic of the middle east? Napoleon would probably want to go back and finish his Egyptian campaign.

Another nice thing would be a new royal line of England. Either a revolution in England or the nobles of East indies coming back and taking Great Britain for themselves. But that would need the democrats in England killing the king and his family. (Something like what the Soviets did to the Romanov family.)

Bernadotte hated Napoleon but he would stay quiet if Napoleon won the war.

That's all I can think of right now but you need anything just ask cause the idea is very interesting and I would like to help.

 

[yourworstnightm]

What about a Metis Confederacy???

 

[unmerged(81390)]

If Napoleon would win the war with Britain (assuming that he didn't attack Russia) he would gather his armies on the eastern border and change the Duchy of Warsaw to the Kingdom (or duchy) of Poland. (The main reason it was called duchy of Warsaw was not to anger Russia, Austria and Prussia which promised that Poland will never again be a free state. With Napoleon winning the war against Britain he would focus on destroying Austria, making Prussia his vassal and showing Russia he's the new boss in Europe.)

Poland would probably gain a lot of it's former lands and turn into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as it was before. (Poland was Napoleon's biggest ally. Actually they were the only people allied with Napoleon out of their free will, the rest was conquered and made fight for Napoleon.)

Gdansk (Danzig) and the areas around it, Lithuania as we see it in EUIII would be brough under the polish rule.

Now something else so you won't think i'm just an angry nationalist.

I don't think Poland/Warsaw (It would be called Poland just like Ottoman Empire was called Turkey) should take any land from Russia. Napoleon will be busy controlling the rest of Europe and making his voice heard across the seas...

Regarding the name, I think it should be called Warsaw, if only because it sounds so much cooler then Poland!


The french will be very interested in Egypt, but just to add yet another interesting nation, I think it should be independent/a satelite of France. The Suez Canal event could be tied to France.
The northen Balkans would be dominated by Russia. Southern and western could be owned by independent republics or french marshals' kingdoms. In Anatolia we might have a revolutionary turkish republic, but more likely just a weakened Ottoman Sultanate.

 

[Taylor]

The french will be very interested in Egypt, but just to add yet another interesting nation, I think it should be independent/a satelite of France. The Suez Canal event could be tied to France.
The northen Balkans would be dominated by Russia. Southern and western could be owned by independent republics or french marshals' kingdoms. In Anatolia we might have a revolutionary turkish republic, but more likely just a weakened Ottoman Sultanate.

Yes, an Egyptian satellite sounds great. Turkish revolution could happen, just not yet in 1836. Something for later on?

 

[Vesimir]

Napoleon was a power hungry man and after Europe would be under his rule with no real threats of war or revolts he would turn his eyes towards Russia and a delicate thing like Warsaw/Poland would be a good thing to start the war over. Just what I think.

 

[Taylor]

Napoleon was a power hungry man and after Europe would be under his rule with no real threats of war or revolts he would turn his eyes towards Russia and a delicate thing like Warsaw/Poland would be a good thing to start the war over. Just what I think.

I think you're right, but this is supposed to be a scenario in which Napoleon won. Attacking Russia would ensure Napoleon's defeat (even if he first defeated Britain), so I guess we have to assume from the start that he didn't.

edit: But that doesn't mean Poland can't play a role in this scenario. For example Warsaw could form Poland somewhere in the time period, with French (or someone else's?) help.

 

[Andrelvis]

I think you're right, but this is supposed to be a scenario in which Napoleon won. Attacking Russia would ensure Napoleon's defeat (even if he first defeated Britain), so I guess we have to assume from the start that he didn't.

edit: But that doesn't mean Poland can't play a role in this scenario. For example Warsaw could form Poland somewhere in the time period, with French (or someone else's?) help.

Yeah, that would be good, having Warsaw not exist at scenario start (owned by Russia), but be creatable by event should Russia become weaker.

 

[Gunneroid]

Cool beans, but I really don't think the CSA is appropriate. If you are going to cut something out of the USA, you could maybe think of a scenario where New England secessionists act, or maybe a seminole Florida state or something. Just anything but the CSA. Just my two cents.

 

[Vesimir]

OK, I have to make sure we're thinking along the same lines so this ahistorical line starts after? Victory in Waterloo? Victory in Trafalgar? Victory somewhere?

Duchy of Warsaw was established after the treaty of Tilsit and was made out of mainly/only prussian land. The treaty also established an alliance between Russia and France.( It was broken soon cause of anti-napoleon nobles and the economy being destroyed because of the continental blockade.)

 

[Taylor]

Yeah, that would be good, having Warsaw not exist at scenario start (owned by Russia), but be creatable by event should Russia become weaker.

I was actually thinking of having Warsaw exist in the beginning, (but smaller than on the opening screenshot) and make some sort of story line in which Warsaw can gain back Polish provinces and eventually form a Polish state (a bit like Serbia in VIP). Having Warsaw in the beginning has the advantage of the player not having to wait until it breaks from Russia and then save&reload as Warsaw. And it's also quite plausible: Napoleon formed Warsaw even without attacking Russia.

OK, I have to make sure we're thinking along the same lines so this ahistorical line starts after? Victory in Waterloo? Victory in Trafalgar? Victory somewhere?

I thought victory at Trafalgar & buying of Russian neutrality with Austrian and Ottoman (northern balkan) lands?

 

[Vesimir]

Don't think that's possible. Poland was under direct control of Napoleon. He didn't give a sh** about it but still. French nobles ran everything in the duchy.
A nationalist Poland trying to take back ALL of their former lands would only be possible thanks to a british sponsored revolution. (And it still would have a lot of problems as almost all of polish soldiers were serving under Napoleon's banner and wouldn't help the revolution because as I mentioned earlier they were Napoleon's biggest allies.)

 

[Taylor]

Don't think that's possible. Poland was under direct control of Napoleon. He didn't give a sh** about it but still. French nobles ran everything in the duchy.
A nationalist Poland trying to take back ALL of their former lands would only be possible thanks to a british sponsored revolution. (And it still would have a lot of problems as almost all of polish soldiers were serving under Napoleon's banner and wouldn't help the revolution because as I mentioned earlier they were Napoleon's biggest allies.)

Hmm. Didn't know that. So in fact the DoW (Duchy of Warsaw) should begin as a monarchist French puppet with only French as accepted culture?

Maybe then (after 1836) have something happen in DoW, for example Poland breaking away from it and some sort of civil war happening? Various powers backing various factions of course? Just ventilating some ideas here.