Brainstorm: Courts, factions, nobility, estates?!

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Aethelred

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Brainstorm: Courts, factions, favourites, nobility, estates?!

EDIT: Before you start to read those walls of text, let me point you to the brief summary here.





This wall of text is not supposed to be a rant. I like EU IV. I really like it. However, I don't like it as much as CK and there are some things I'm not too happy with or rather some really paramount aspects of the early modern world that are simply missing in the game.

For example, I miss the characters from CK II. EU has an apersonal feel to it, as you interact with mechanisms and numbers (power, ideas, trade and production efficiency, stability, etc.) rather than with people. And even though the abstract mechanisms might in the end provide a plausible result (which is open for discussion), the workings leading to the results feel a bit strange, and are not really immersive or fun to play.

So, I asked myself what I would really love to see in this game and came up with the following ideas. Please just take them as a kind of brainstorming. I'd love to hear some opinions/feedback on it, or in genreal just hear if you feel the same. Do you miss personal interaction? Do you miss the most characterisic political instituation of early modern Europe – the courts? Also feel free to post your own ideas!

The following is but a suggestion how certain aspects (nobility, estates, factions, court) could be modeled into the game, replacing some of the current mechanisms (stability, war taxes, partly overextension) with less abstract, more immersive and historically plausible models. If they would really work out well or could even be realized (technical restrictions, AI-iusses) I don't know. As I've said, it's nothing but brainstorming that might give everyone an idea what I feel is missing in the EU-series. I also need to point out that I'm not sure that this model could be used to do justice to all the different political structures around the world. I'm positive, however, that with a few tweaks here and there it would make sense in a lot of cases. It's basically meant to represent interaction between the center (the crown) and court- or local elites (nobility, could also represent high bureaucrats). This new aspect of the game should trigger several "internal" conflicts that will curb your ambitions in "external" affairs, without necessarily threatening your existence.

So here is my idea of how court, factions, estates, nobility could be represented in the game (many parts are still missing, lack of time - I will add them a bit later):

1. NOBILITY/ELITES
1.1. Basics

Each province/region on the map has a so called "nobleman". For european monarchies, a nobleman represents the most influential aristocrat in a province, his family and retinue of protegés included. You can conceive a "nobleman" as a single person, but also as a kind of faction, a web of "friendships" or a noble family.

You will be able to access a list of all the noblemen in your realm, providing you the following information for each aristocrat/family (besides the names of the family and the nobleman):

- opinion of you
- age
- modified stats (administration/diplomacy/military)
- rank (1-5)
- current grace
- money
- estates
- confession
- culture
- diplomatic faction
- (for immersion: coat-of-arms of the family, portrait of the nobleman)

Note that this is not really more information than the information associated with CK II characters, who even have fully detailed family relations and opinions of each other in the game. For noblemen in EU, this wouldn't be necessary. Nobleman don't need to have spouses, children, claims, opinions of each other (instead, their relations are abstracted via the factions-concept). Also note that even though EU IV covers the whole world, the amount of characters would still be lower than the amount of characters in CK II, because there would be only one noble per province, not 3-6 (1 per holding).

Some of the variables will be explained in more detail further below. Here are just some short remarks for each variable:

age
Age gives you a rough idea when the nobleman is going to die. He will be replaced by another member of the same noble family. However, there is a (random) chance that a noble family dies out, in which case you might install a new family (or let the estates do that). But in most cases, when a nobleman dies, the coat-of-arms will stay the same, money will stay the same, rank will (in most cases, see "court/graces/promotion" further below) stay the same. The skills and – to a certain degree – the opinion of you will change. So, in game-terms, "family" only functions a means to carry over opinion, rank and money from one generation of noblemen to another in order to prevent the exploitation of generational breaks. Children, spouses, etc. are not represented in the game in any way. We only need "age" in order to randomize the talent available to a monarch, in order to limit ascent, and in order to give the monarch more flexibility by letting certain positions become vacant from time to time. Moreover, in certain situations, a monarch can decide to ban or disempower a family and replace it with a different family.

modified stats
Stats (administration/diplomacy/military) are quite self-explicatory. They determine the talents of the nobles when it comes to "service for the crown" (see further below for details). A nobleman has a "natural" Talent as well as "modified" stats. Shown in the list should be the "modified" stats. Modified stats are natural stats modified by the noblemans' current opinion of you. Hovering over the number shows you the natural stats and explains that modified stats are influenced by opinion. Stats that are affected negatively are shown in red, stats that are affected positively are shown in green.

rank
Rank ranges from 0 (only for commoners) to 5 (very powerfull aristocrat). Rank is an indicator of power as well as claimed honour of the nobleman. The importance of rank will become clear if you read the whole of this suggestion (including the upcoming parts). The most important consequence of rank, however, is that you have to bestow graces on your nobles according to their rank if you don't want to risk to make them unhappy. If the (current) graces you give to a nobleman do not match his rank, his opinion of the crown will decrease and he counts as a "malcontent". If a nobleman receives less grace than his rank demands, the rank is shown in red in order to indicate a "malcontent". Vice versa, your "favourites" who receive more grace than their rank suggests, will have their rank shown in green.

grace
The amount of grace that you're currently bestowing on the family/noble. Grace (royal attention, privileges, presents, favours, promotions, offices) is managed via the court (see court for more details).

opinion of crown

This is pretty self-explicatory as well. The opinion is shown as a number. Hovering over it will give the detailed breakdown.

estates
Either a text or a coat-of-arms will tell you to which estates the noble belongs. This information is important because noblemen – as local elites - exert influence over estates that they're member of (the more so the higher their rank).

culture (faction)
The name of the culture of the family. One could think about implementing some chance that a family changes culture, but I don't think it is really neccessary. Noblemen of the same culture will group up and form a faction in your realm.

confession (faction)
The confession of the family. Noblemen of the same confession will group up and form a faction in your realm. The faction is visualised by the symbol of the respective confession.

diplomatic faction
This tells you whether the nobleman forms part of a certain diplomatical-interest-group. Noblemen who are located in a province adjacent to a "rival" province (a province owned by a country that you've defined as a rival) form such an interest-group. If you got two of these factions in your realm, they will compete with each other. Imagine these factions as "pro" and "anti" groups. Noblemen who are not adjacent to a rival province will be neutral. The faction is visualised by the coat-of-arms of the nation that the nobleman dislikes. Neutral noblemen will show no coat-of-arms.

money
The accumulated money of a family. Depending on the rank, there is a constant drain of money for each family. For example, a level 3 family could lose 0.3 ducats per month. This is offset by money that a family receives via presents, privileges and also offices. So, each family has a kind of balance. If the money of a family reaches 50, it will automatically rise in status by 1.
1.2. Service for the crown
The following system would completely replace the current advisor-system and make some tweaks to diplomats and leaders. Each monarch has two advisory bodies and two kinds of "executive" agents that are recruited among your nobility.

Advisory bodies:
Privy council (for administration and diplomacy)
War council (for military)

Executive agents:
diplomats
leaders (generals/admirals)
The other agents are unaffected as noblemen don't engage as traders, missionaries or colonists.

The advisory bodies

A monarch can nominate up to three noblemen as councilors for his privy council and up to three noblemen for his war council. Who you're going to nominate will be influenced primarily by two questions/aspects:

1. A position in the privy or war council will be perceived as grace by a nobleman (see "court" for more information) and also by the factions that he is part of. This aspect is described in further detail under "factions" and "court".

2. Depending on the quality and opinion of your councilors, you will receive a malus or bonus on your (administration/diplomacy/military) stats. For the privy council, determine the mean of all the modified administration/diplomarcy-stats of the councillors. If the result is higher than the monarchs' administration/diplomacy value, apply a +1 bonus. If the result is at least two times higher than the monarchs' stat, apply a +2 bonus. If the result is lower, apply a -1 malus. Actually, it would be nice if the privy council would also be able to give you a bonus/malus on tax-income.

For the war council, do the same for the military-stat. Actually, it would be nice if the war-council would also be able to give you a bonus/malus on force-limits.

You can of course also leave all seats of an advisory body empty and denying yourself any bonus. If you don't want to fill a position with one of your nobles, you can hire a commoner for a task. This will cost you a little junk of administration power and spawn a randomly generated character of rank 0 who has an automatic opinion of +200 of you. This commoner might cost some money (in contrast for noblemen, who serve for free) and he is not a member of any family or estate. However, surrounding yourself with commoners rather than with those who are traditionally entitled to be your advisors (i.e. the nobility) will upset the nobility of your realm (see court). If you're a small country, you will need to make use of commoners. However, since the number of aristocrats in a small country is also very low, you should be able to keep them happy (with grace) very easily, thereby balancing out the malus (favouritism) you receive for taking advice from commoners. If it doesn't work, one could allow smaller countries (and republics!) a certain amount of free (of favouritism) commoners.

One could even expand on the idea of "common" versus "aristocratic" advisors. Tech and ideas could slowly shift the balance in favour of "commoner-bureaucrats", increasing their quality and/or decreasing your nobles' opinion loss if you use them (which is already modeled via "court" though). It would also offer means to give certain realms a unique feeling. For example, China could rely heavily on bureaucrats.

If there are noblemen with roughly the same rank in the council, expect a precedence quarrel from time to time as en "event". You will need to take action. Depending on your action, you might offend one or the other party, resulting in a temporary opinion change. There might also be quarrels about certain decisions. So, for example, if you go to war with country X, or appoint nobleman Y as a leader, you could be informed that one of your councilors disagress with that and might be asked to reconsider your opinion (and prefer not to upset the noble). This will be described in more detail further below (see "factions", decisions of war could be paramount for members of political/diplomatical factions). So, appointing nobles of a certain faction as advisors should not a good idea if you don't plan to act according to their interests. It will only help to upset them and their faction even more! This would be a quite necessary thing in my eyes: characters have (political interests). After all, they long for offices not solely because of the honour attached to it, but also because of the influence on the monarch (you!).

Executive agents

One important note at the beginning: the calculations for the maximum number of allowed leaders, merchants, missionaries and colonists is not affected. But I would increase the number of available diplomats a bit, given that player will now also have to deal with internal affairs. So one or two additional diplomat-slots would be nice.

Diplomats and leaders still do the same things. However, diplomats have a few more options now. The biggest change is that the quality of their services will be affected by the quality and opinion of the nobles that fill these positions. Therefore, it is necessary to implement a measurement of "quality of service" into the game.

Diplomats

Diplomats still carry out the same tasks as they do now, but there will be a few more tasks (negotiate with estates, see "estates"). However, in order to give the selection of diplomats a meaning (other than just improving relationships with nobles and factions), the characteristics of a nobleman have to have some influence on the quality of his service. How to model in the quality of diplomatic tasks? It's not too difficult, and there isn't even the need to make each and every task be influenced by talent. Here are a few ideas:

Note that I'd actually make all diplomatic treaties take some time. So, if you have but one master-mind-diplomat, he can't be everywhere at the same time. And note that "influence" means that it can go in two directions: good diplomats can give boni, bad diplomats will give mali.

negotiate peace: the agents' diplomatic skill influences the aggressive-expansion-opinion malus, as well as the diplomatic-power-costs for certain items in the negotiation, and perhaps even the likeliness of the opponent to accept. Moreover, it will shorten the time of the negotiations.

offer alliance: the diplomatic skill influences the likeliness of the opponent to accept, and the duration of the negotiations.

improve relations: each point of diplomatic skill of the agent in exces/short of X increases/reduces to the speed of opinion-gain as well as the maximum/cap (100 right now).

royal marriage: diplomatic skill of the agent influences the time the other faction needs to think about it (which should be increased in the first place). Actually, I guess it would make more sense to make a royal marriage cost diplomatic power (perhaps even be a constant drain of diplomatic power?!). The agents' skill could then reduce/increase the diplomatic-power-cost.

proclaim guarantee: skill could reduce the diplomatic power cost, as for royal marriage.

support rebels: diplomatic skill further increase reinforcement-speed, and decreases chance of discovery.

send warning: I think that whenever you send a warning to a non-rival-nation of yours, you should get a small aggressive expansion-opinion malus with other countries. The diplomatic skill of your agent would influence the extent of the malus, representing how he makes up reasons for the warning and fight a war of propaganda. Moreover, a good diplomat will have a slight chance of giving you some prestige, a bad one will cost you some prestige.

send insult: same as "send warning".

fabricate claim: diplomatic skill influences the speed and the chance of discovery, as well as the malus for aggressive expansion?

Two more ideas came to my mind concerning these actions:

1) one could make rank of the nobleman an important factor (apart from the diplomatic skill) as well. So, for example, countries would usually send very high aristocrats to peace negotiations. So, whenever two countries negotiate (i.e. alliances, royal marriages, peace negotiations), it would be awesome if actually both sides had to chose a diplomat, and the side with the higher ranking diplomat would get a bonus. If they're of the same rank, precedence-quarrels could lenghten the duration of the negotiations. If that's too complicated (since you'd always have to keep a diplomat "at home" in order to offer other nations chances to negotiate), one could use the characters in the privy councils as "passive" diplomats as well. For other actions, especially covert actions, it could be better to use low-level noblemen. Using higher ranking men should increase the chance of discovery.

Leaders

The tasks (manoeverability and providing boni in battle) stay the same. The quality is hard to represent, since there is not a lot of bandwith when it comes to leader-stats. However, one could simply say that a leader will distribute his military-stat Points (+1) randomly to the fire/shock/manoever/siege-skills.

1.3. Factions (not written down yet)

1.4. Promotion and changing the noble landscape (not written down yet)
2. COURT

2.1. Grace
The main ressource that a court provides you with is "grace". Grace is the ressource that can be used to meet a noble's expecations. Higher ranking nobles will expect more grace, lower nobles are satisfied with less grace. A nobleman expects 10 points of grace per rank. If you don't fulfill his expectations, he will count as a malcontent, which means that his opinion of you will decrease steadily over time. Note that the expectations of grace can only be satisfied via grace, not by any other methods to increase opinion. If, on the other hand, you give (significantly) more grace to a nobleman than he would deserve by rank, he turns into your "favourite". This will make the favourite very happy (so you can fully exploit his talents!), but will give you an opinion malus with other nobles of the rank- or grace-level of the favourite.

There are several ways to permanently or temporarily generate "grace" (favours, presents, privileges, promotion), and you have a base "pool of grace" (royal attention, pomp and ceremony):

1) Royal attention, pomp and ceremony

The court itself and your royal attention is a source of grace. Imagine this as the amount of prestige, pomp and glamour that a court offers, and the capability of your court to create situations in which you can give certain nobles preference, or play off nobles against each other.

If you switch to your court-chart, you will see the amount of grace from royal attention, pomp and ceremony at your disposal. You can use pomp and ceremony by distributing it freely amongst your noblemen. You do that by assigning percentages of your total grace-pool to noblemen. Each point of grace that they receive in this way equals one point of positive opinion. If you take favour away from a noble (which you can do at any time), he will receive a temporary opinion-malus (1/2 of the favour-loss), which will show up as "out of favour with the monarch".

The size of the "royal attention, pomp and ceremony"-grace-pool will gradually increase over time. This will actually portray that in most monarchies, the power of the estates slowly declined while the power of the court-nobility and the court were on the rise (just to be finally replaced by the central power of the monarch and his bureaucrats). So, in phase one, you would be unable to control the estates with your nobles because your court is not capable of binding (strong) noblemen yet. In phase two, starting around 1650, you would be able to control the estates via the court nobility, but you would still struggle to keep court-factions happy. The last phase, probably setting in around 1750, would see you as an almost independent ruler who neither depends on estates nor court nobility. Since your court-grace-pool will be so high, you will have enough grace to satisfy all factions. And even more, you could distribute so much grace that you could make use of common bureaucrats. You don't need the nobility anymore.

The attention, pomp and ceremony-pool of grace should be interlinked with administrative technology, (temporary) national decisions (e.g. court feast +20 pomp for 1 year), prestige, and, last but not least, your court-maintainance (similar to fleet/army/colonial/missionary maintainance).

Apart from that, I could imagine a seperate "national" court-menu where you can decide to build chateaux, residences, a cabinet of wonder, acquire a portrait galery, temporarily hire great artists to increase your pomp, issue certain court reforms (e.g. introuce burgundian/spanish court ceremonial), etc. etc. Actually, the non plus ultra would be if monarchs would actually compete for certain artists or objects to fill their wonder cabinets. That would add great, great flavour to the game. You would have your diplomatical agents negotiate for artists and objects.

2) Offices

Offices grant a certain amount of opinion-bonus that counts as grace. The amount of opinion bonus of positions in advisory bodies depends on the exclusiveness. The amount of opinion bonus gained from executive positions is fixed (+ XX).

Honour gained from council positions by noblemen
The honour that nobles gain for being a councilor at court depends on the exclusivity and their influence in these bodies:

If there is but one noble in your (war or aulic) council, he will receive X grace.
If there are two councillors, each of them will receive X grace
If there are three councillors, each of them will receive X grace

3) Favours

By spending administrative power-points (3 per rank of the nobleman), you will receive a temporary opinion-bonus that counts as favour. The effect will decrease over time. This represents how you do a favour for the nobleman, be it to decide a quarrel/conflict in his favour, arrange a marriage, admit his son at court, etc. etc.

4) Presents

By spendig some money (3 money per 20 grace?), you will receive a temporary opinion-bonus that counts as grace. The effect will decrease over time, so you might be better off with privileges.

5) Privileges

By granting privileges to the nobleman, you will receive a permanent (as long as the privileges are active) opinion-bonus that counts as favour. A privilege is a permanent flow of money to the nobleman, 0.1 per month for 10 grace. Note that this actually resembles a weak crown. If you have to satisfy many noblemen via privileges, this means that either there is a very strong nobility in your realm (higher ranking aristocrats need more grace), and/or that you didn't manage to tame the nobility via your court. So, if you have to allow a lot of privileges to your nobleman, this actually represents a low stability.

6) Promotion

By raising the rank of a noble-family, the family will be gratefull to you for two generations. However, raising a family without a reason will anger families of similar rank (via the favouritism-mechanic). Also note that even though promoting a family might be very handy and cheap now, you will have to struggle with higher expectations of the family in the following generations.
2.2. Malcontents and favourites

Each rank corresponds to -10 opinion of "rank expectation". If the rank-expectations of a nobleman are not met by bestowing the respective amount of grace (royal attention and pomp, privileges, presents, favours, prmotion) to the nobleman, then the nobleman counts as a "malcontent" and his opinion of you will (in addition to the static malus) further decline over time.

So, for example let's say there is a noble with a rank of 3 that holds but a court office that equals 10 grace. This will make him a malcontent:

rank expectation: -30 (for rank 3)
grace (office): +10
result: -20

Not only will this translate into a -20 opinion malus, but also the noblemans' opinion of you will further decline for him being a malcontent.

If, on the other hand, the favours you give to a nobleman exceed his rank (at least by 5 points?), then he counts as a "favourite", which will upset all the other noblemen a little bit, the more so, the closer they are to the rank of the favourite.

malus for nobles of the rank-level of the favourite -10 ("He doesn't deserve being treated better than us! With his ill advice, he has too much influence on the monarch! He is a crawler!")
malus for nobles of the grace-level of the favourite - 10 ("A lousy social climber that does not deserve the same honours as we do!")

The court-chart will show you the opinion-malus due to rank and the favours given to each nobleman. Favourites will have these numbers marked in green, malcontents in red, giving you a direct visual feedback where your "troubles" are.
3. ESTATES
(refers to the "political" estates, the representatives of the broader nobility of a region, which was the main partner/opponent monarchs had to negotiate with if they wanted to collect taxes. Many big conflicts in early modern Euorpe (especially prior to ca. 1650, after which the estates were gradually dispowered by "absolutist" monarchs) were conflicts between the crown and estates. For example: the crisis of 1619 in Bohemia that triggered the series of wars later known as the 30 years war was a conflict between the Habsburg rulers as kings of Bohemia and the estates/nobility of Bohemia. Not written down yet)

4. CONFLICTS
(between crown - estates - nobles; not written down yet)
 
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rhaak

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I think you got your Crusader Kings in my Europa Universalis ;)
 

WeissRaben

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While this system might be a tad too thorough, it's true that, yet again, peacetime gameplay is almost nonexistent in EU4. Something is needed - be it a more complex building system, more involvement in trade or internal factions.
 

Aethelred

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I think you got your Crusader Kings in my Europa Universalis

Well, I'd try to combine the best of two worlds. ;) Being very interested in history myself, I feel that some of the most important and most immersive aspects of the early modern world are simply missing in this game. Playing a blobbing "nation-state" with state-financed research feels wrong. It should be a world of dynasties, courts, composite monarchies (hence the estates), obsessed with rank and status.

And yes, what I'm describing here might be too detailed, although it would offer so much depth imho: Everything would be interlinked: groups of nobles (factions), estates and nobles (nobles have influence over their estates according to their rank). And you'd constantly have to make sure that you've got a decent "workforce" (agents and advisors) without upsetting certain noble factions. There are hundreds of variables that would give us hundreds of different scenarios (weak nobles/strong nobles, domination of court aristocracy versus domination of estates, domination of nobility versus domination of commoners, etc. etc. ) and conflicts (crown versus noblemen but not estates, crown versus faction, crown versus estates but not noblemen, crown versus nobles but not estates, crown versus nobles and estates, estates versus noblemen, etc.). But yes, I'd be happy about any DLC/Expansion in the described direction. :D
 
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Zarine

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Considering how the states get centralized in the EU4 period, I don't think having a lot of character to play with is a good idea.
I think that most of your ideas might suit events and modifiers.

Now I hardly see the use of the character in game. In EU4, I don't want to care about the fact that X is married with Y.
I could do with few things around my monarch like having a portrait of him, having some option to teach him things (but loosing others...)
 

Aethelred

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Zarine, if you read the suggestion, you would see that in contrast to CK II, where characters are really a "personal" matter, I would opt for "political" characters in EU. And yes, the estates got disempowered in the time that EU is set in (if that's what you mean by centralisation?), and that's exactly why they should be in the game! The conflict "crown versus estates" was probably the most important line of conflict in the 16th century (especially since it was connected to the confessional divide; e.g. see Hugenot wars, see outbreak of 30 years war, see english civil war, see fronde). Without estates/parliaments, you can't understand any major conflict during that time. And then you also have to see how estates got disempowered. I'd see the rise of a court aristocracy as a main aspect here.

In fact the suggested system could portray "centralisation" in serveral steps quite well:

1. Stage 1: The estates have lots of power. Why? Because the nobles in your realm have a low rank (so they can't influence the estates) and you can't affort to promote them (not enough court power, fear of the anger of those who are not promoted). Estates and taxes are your biggest concern at this stage.

2. Stage 2: The court nobility has lots of power. Why? Because you manage to keep a few high ranking nobles (keep them happy via increased court power) who, in turn, exert influence over/dominate the estates. However, you have to watch out for factions. You don't have enough court-power yet to keep "all" nobles happy. Promoting only a few to higher ranks (in order to increase your influence on the estates) will upset the other nobles. So court factions and favourites (quarrels amongst noblemen tend to decrease your personell-pool, so you might be forced to stick to some favourites?) are your main concern at this stage. This is the age of "grey eminences" or very important courtiers - Olivares, Mazarini, Richileu, Prince Eugen, etc.

3. Stage 3: The monarch himself holds most power. Why? Bcause your court-power is sufficient to keep all nobles happy and at high rank (so they control the estates for you). You can even have enough power to afford talented commoners as advisors, without having to fear for the relations with your nobles.

So, for me the lack of "political" characters and the institutions to deal with them and manage them (courts) is a big, big, big neglect that does not only render the game far less "realistic", but also less immersive. The ease with which you can do a lot of things in EU IV is insane if you compare it to the problems that early modern monarchs were confronted with ("internally", in their composite monarchies). Turning major conflicts into "events" only demonstrates that the current mechanics are not able to portray the inner workings of early modern Europe. Moreover, by making internal affairs more interesting, we wouldn't need to focus so much on conquest, blobbing, overextending.
 
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Zarine

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What I mean is that, you put a political character. Then what with him?

You're lucky and he likes you, then you don't even have to care about him.
You're unlucky and he hates you, you will have an internal turmoil.
You're so so and you can affect his judgment, you do it and then nothing.

I see no fun in that and I see no reason why not having this luck part of events.
Now maybe the events are not correctly made but having a chain "The last duke of our country doesn't want to see its duchy disappear..." then you have X choices. Each with a different effects and chances to trigger something else... could do it better
From a modder point of view, this can only be better as you can create and modify the events while any interaction is not available to modders.


Currently, you can have pretender rising, you can have Hugenot rebellion... ok, the event might be too direct with no option to see it coming or to calm it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.
By adding characters/factions, I have a feeling that half the time you won't care at all and the other half you will have to micro-manage them, a bit like in CK2 when your king is old enough to have very good relation with everyone and you don't care at all about your vassal and then he dies and you have a stupid son and you have to micro-manage every character bringing little fun.

From my point of view, what you are looking for is in the game and is called the revolt risk and events.
And I don't think we need to add a new layer on top of that. Now I might be missing a point...
 

Aethelred

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Well, that's the difference I would make between "personal" characters (as in CK II) and "political" characters. There is hardly any luck involved in relations to political characters. I've not written this piece yet, but the opinion of a nobleman would depend a lot on the question whether your actions correspond with the interest of the faction(s) that the nobleman is part of or not. So, confession, diplomatic factions (rivalries to countries) and culture are very important. Add to this the important factor of grace, which is: how much do you value this person in relation to others? So, by no means would the relation be random. And you would have lots of means to influence opinion - means, however, that are interrelated with other aspects. So, you could not increase someone's opinion for free (by marrying him to someone, etc.). If you want to increase his opinion, you need to do something for it that might - depending on the constellation - anger another person or faction. Making it a zero-sum-game (unless you're very skilled, can create favourable situations) makes it interesting! And that's exactly why I would put factions (give A = take from B) and grace (give A = make B angry) in the game. (Random) traits wouldn't even be in the game!

Sorry but events are but a poor abstraction of historical developments. I'd like to have a deeper game. I don't want to trigger "events", I'd rather influence situations myself, and navigate through different constellations and problems! I'd like to feel a bit more attached to some nobles, I would like to see the power of this or that faction rise or decline, I'd like to receive a message "The estates of X are assembling without your consent, they seem to prepare a rebellion. They prepare gravamina complaining about the violation of religious freedom that you've granted them 5 years ago. They seem to get some sympathy of the estates of X as well." And then I would send my best diplomat to negotiate with them to buy time, while at the same time preparing my forces to crush them! :D And I'd like to be able to say: "So be it! I will not give in to your demands, estates of/faction of Y! I'm strong enough now! You want confrontation, you get confrontation!" Or I'd like to be able to deny a promotion to a noble and say: "Ha, so what are you going to do now! I don't need you anyways! I can replace you easily!"

By adding characters/factions, I have a feeling that half the time you won't care at all and the other half you will have to micro-manage them, a bit like in CK2 when your king is old enough to have very good relation with everyone and you don't care at all about your vassal and then he dies and you have a stupid son and you have to micro-manage every character bringing little fun.

Well playing a game can always be interpreted in various ways. In the same vein you could say: phew, why do I even have to micromanage and care about trade, about technology, etc. I for one would prefer to manage court factions rather than technology. And indeed, the amount of complexity/micromanagement is a factor - 1 nobleman per province is okay, I'd say. The larger your realm, the more nobles, the more difficult it will be to keep them all happy, and the more micromanagement will be necessary. Well, that's just the way it is! :D Philipp II was called the "paper king" (rey papelero) for a reason! He was micromanaging quite a lot. You see, this is a natural/deeper/more concrete and less abstract (and less luck-based!) way to model "overextension" in the game. There will be so many nobles and factions that it will be impossible to keep everyone happy. But "generic" rebellions will not simply pop up randomly due to some increased revolt-risk. They will have a face (or several faces, actually) and you will be able to see them coming, and you will understand why they pop up. And instead of just ending a rebellion by defeating the army, you'd end it by disempowering/banning the respective leaders/noblemen and replacing them with other noble families.

And just think of all the flavour it would add to the game. Not only Immersion-wise, but also in terms of portraying different "countries" by letting them start with a concrete constellation of power (ranks of noblemen, preset factions, starting court-power). For example, the polish szlachta could be represented by very strong estates (i.e. influential lower nobility) and very low court-power - strong estates are represented by low rank "noblemen"/high aristocracy. Damn, you could even go as far as to make certain trooptypes depend on the power-realtion between estates/lower nobility and higher nobility. The same goes for most republics. The proposed system let's you simulate:

- very influential high aristocracy, weak crown (low court power, lots of high ranking nobles) - basically the nobles are independent, you need to give them lots of privileges (reducing your own power) to prevent a break-up
- very influential lower aristocracy, weak crown (low court power, lots of low ranking nobles) - since the nobles don't have a lot of influence over the estates (because of their low rank), you need to deal with the estates directly
- very influential high aristocracy, strong crown (high court power, lots of high ranking nobles) - you use your courtpower to keep the high aristocracy happy, which in turn dominates the lower nobility (because of the high rank)
- very influential lower aristocracy, strong crown (high court power, lots of low ranking nobles) - well that doesn't make a lot of sense, as you can't use court power to influence the estates. You need noblemen as intermediaries between your court and the estates. So, your aim would be to create a caste of loyal noblemen and increase their influence (against the opposition of the estates/lower nobility). That might be tricky.
 
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Zarine

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Ok, I understand it a little bit better... even thought I still don't see why you can't just stick with the RR.
It seems to me like just putting a face of a character stating that he is Spanish (culture) Catholic Spaniard. And then you're France -> +5 RR / -20 "relation" because he's Spaniard, you're Catholic -> -3 RR / +12 "relation" and you only accept Spanish culture -> -1 RR / +4 "relation"

And then you look at it so +1RR / -4 "relation" and oh snap there is a small revolt chance.
For me it ends with the same things, maybe the name of the actions are changed but that's all I see.


There is one side of what you think that I would go with : I feel that rebels are soulless. A rising pretender has almost no flavor to it and putting a face, a goal, a purpose and having other nation helping it could be great.
Because I must admit I'm playing rebels like whack a pretender, whack a peasant group...
 

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Well no, in my purely hypothetical suggestion, it wouldn't work as you've described it (perhaps I should first finish my ideas - especially factions - before we discuss them :D).

For example, imagine a nobleman in Graz (which should be part of Styria/Steiermark...but anyway). Let's assume he is catholic, german, a member of the estates of "Austria", has a rank of 2. How is his opinion of you/the crown determined?

- grace: since the nobleman has a rank of 2, he expects that you give him 20 points of grace. Let's say that you give him these 20 points of grace, so that he is neither a malcontent nor a favourite. Note that, depending on your court-power and the amount of high-ranking nobles, these 20 points of grace might be missing somewhere else. Where the points come from is not important for our consideration (offices, privileges, etc.). As long as you give the nobleman grace according to his rank, there is neither an opinion malus nor a bonus.

- confessional faction: The opinion of the nobleman depends on your relationship with the catholic faction. I can't go into detail how it is determined here, but to give you an idea: I would determine power-shares of favourites/malcontents for each faction (e.g. how many accumulated malcontent/favourite points are there for nobles of catholic/protestant/reformed faction?) and apply certain boni for circumstances (e.g. faction holds majority in privy council/war council and for recent decisions (e.g. if your state religion is catholic and you shift the confessional law for the estates of X towards "tolerance", this will temporarily upset the catholic faction). Also, each nobleman will be particularly affected by the confession-law in "his" estates. So, if the tolerance for non-state-confessions is high in the estates of Austria, the catholic nobleman in Graz will be unhappy.

- cultural faction: The opinion of the nobleman depends on your relationship with the german faction. You'd determine the faction's influence in the same way as for the confessional factions. However, there is no "estates"-factor here (there is no "cultural law" you could set for estates). Therefore, the share of court offices would be of more importance. Note that for the Habsburg monarchy, you would have at least a hungarian, a bohemian and a german faction.

- diplomatic faction: What is a diplomatic faction? I'd turn every noble who is located in a province that is adjacent to a province of a country that you've tagged as your "rival" into a member of a diplomatic faction against that particular rival-country. Moreover, estates will also gain a "diplomatic" interest if there is a high share of members that are part of a diplomatic faction. Nobles who are not situated adjacent to a rival nation or are not members of estates with a diplomatic interest will either stay neutral or declare themselves member of any diplomatic faction (they can choose any of the nations that you've tagged as rivals). If there are two or more diplomatic factions, the factions will compete with each other and evaluate your diplomatic actions. A diplomatic faction will get satisfaction if you act aggressively to the respective rival-county, and dissatisfaction if you act aggressively to the other diplomatic factions' rival-country. (And vice versa: a diplomatic faction doesn't like it when you negotiate for peace, improve relations with, give subsidies or presents to their rival country, and will like it if you do the same in relation to the rival country of the other diplomatic faction). The boni or mali of opinion will increase if the faction has lots of court-offices or holds the majority in your council.

So, if we stick to Austria and assume that Austria has declared France and the Ottoman Empire as rivals, we would end up with a strong anti-Ottoman faction, especially in the south and east (in the border regions to the Ottoman empire), and an (albeit smaller) anti-France faction (since you don't have a lot of/any borders with France).

- Favouritism: The opinion of the noble will be influenced by any favourite (since this noble is rank 2, he will consider any noble of rank-level 2 but grace level 3, or any noble of rank level 1 but grace level 2 as a favourite).

- Last but not least, there could be many factors related to decisions (e.g. ignored my opinion as councilor, decided precedence-quarrel with other councillor in my favour) etc.

You see: there is no randomness at all. To stick to our example of the Styrian nobleman, we could gat a hypothetical opinion like this:

+ 0 grace (see D)
+ 48 german faction (see A)
-10 catholic faction (see B)
+ 30 diplomatic faction (see C)
-10 denied promotion
-15 perceived favouritism (nobleman X, nobleman Y, nobleman Z)
+ 10 monarch supported me against the estates


A - german faction:
favourite-points of german faction: +10 (on average, german noblemen receive more grace than their ranks suggest)
favourite points of hungarian faction: 0 (on average, hungarian nobleman receive grace according to their rank)
favourite points of bohemian faction: -5 (on average, some bohemian noblemen receive less grace than their rank suggests)
(Note that you can also try to keep the power-Level of factions low by keeping their nobles at a lower rank. But then you'll have to deal with the estates!)
--> 100% of all positive favourite points and 3 factions = +30 opinion

+30 german faction favoured by monarch
+2 german advisor
+2 german advisor
+5 german faction holds majority in privy council
+2 german diplomat
+2 german diplomat
+5 german factions holds majority of diplomats
B catholic faction
+30 Monarch favours catholic faction over protestant and reformed factions (same calculation as for german faction)
- 20 tolerance 3 for the estates of Austria (additional -10 since the nobleman is situated in Austria)
-5 tolerance 2 for the estates of Bohemia
-10 tolerance 3 for the estates of Hungary
- 5 recent grant of tolerance in Bohemia
-5 recent grant of tolerance in Hungary
+5 catholics hold majority in privy council
C anti-Ottoman-faction
+10 Monarch favours anti-Ottoman-faction over anti-France-faction (same calculation as above)
+10 anti-Ottoman-faction holds majority in war-council
+10 anti-Ottoman-faction holds majority in privy-council
-10 monarch improved relations with Ottoman Empire recently, despite anti-Ottoman-majority in privy council
-5 royal marriage with France, despite anti-Ottoman-majority in privy council
+ 10 monarch is member of a coalition against the Ottoman empire
+5 monarch fabricated claim on Ottoman province recently

D grace
-20 rank expectation (the nobleman is rank 2)
+10 diplomat-office,
+5 royal Attention (from your royal attention, pomp and ceremony-pool),
+5 received favour

NOTE: The faction mechanic only triggers if there are at least two factions. If all your nobles are german, it's just natural that you don't get any opinion boni for your treatment of "german" noblemen.

So, if you combine all these factors, you should end up with an interesting (but by no means random) variance of opinions and factions.

And by the way, a low opinion does not automatically turn a nobleman into a rebell. First, you would notice the deterioration of skill (remember that skill is modified by opinion), which means that the nobleman performs his service for the crown in a lackluster way. If the opinion is getting lower, he will leave your court, which means that you can't turn him into an agent or advisor anymore (so your personell-pool shrinks) but you still need to give some graces to him if you don't want the relation to deteriorate any further. Moreover, you'd have to spend prestige and use a diplomat if you want to get him back to your court. Noblemen that have left your court will also give the estates an edge over you in negotiations about taxes, the more so the higher their rank. This represents that they actually turn into centrifugal powers - they strenghten the local power against the central power, or you might also imagine them to be corrupt. A single uncontent nobleman will not trigger any form of violent resistance. However, if you have a lot of uncontent noblemen (especially if they share the same factions, and if they are of high rank) and/or uncontent estates, you might at some point face open rebellion.

So, the whole system offers a lot of complex situations and lots of possible outcomes. For your "crown service", do you make use of the nobility or of commoners? If you make use of commoners, how do you appease the nobility? If you make use of the nobility, how do you keep every faction happy? If you keep every faction happy, then the quality of the crown service might be worse than if you put all your grace on one faction. How to deal with unhappy factions? You could prevent them from rising to higher ranks. But then you won't have any power of the estates. etc. And then if you strongly favour a certain political faction, developments in the world could throw you over all your plans. For example, a recent war has turned France into a greater threat than the Ottoman Empire, while so far, you've been favouring the anti-Ottoman-faction all the time, while all the anti-France-nobles have left your court. Now you're stuck with lackluster "pro-France" advisors, diplomats and leaders! What do you do now?
 
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ESTATES

Basics

While noblemen represent the top-elites that can actually be "centralised" by a monarch (by drawing them to your court, via court power/grace), estates refer to a broader stratum of lower nobility or local, decentralized elites. There are lots of variations in history, but in many european countries, the bulk of the lower nobility was represented in some form of diet/parliament/cortes/estates/sejm (whatever you want to call it). These were by no means democratic parliaments in the modern sense, of course, but predominantly "noble" parliaments, with a rather meagre influence of cities and in some cases even commoners. Membership was usually reserved for the high and low landed aristorcracy, the clergy and representatives of the most powerfull towns. These parliaments (I will call them such from now on for easyness' sake) were the counterweight to the monarchs, who were often accused of acting in their "private" or dynastic interests rather than in the interest of the public weal/the weal of the country. The estates stood for the countrys'/more regional interest, the monarch for the crowns/dynastic/ more geopolitical interest.

Now, why were parliaments (or local elites) important and why do we even need them in the game? Because the monarchs depended on their approval whenever they wanted money/taxes. At least this was the case until the estates gradually lost most of their power, mainly during the 17th century. However, this was by no means a process without conflicts. The conclict between monarch and estates, which one could also call a conflict of centralisation, was omnipresent in most european monarchies and often resulted in violence. It was one of the big lines of conflicts of practically all european monarchies in this time period, yet it is entirely missing in the game.

So how would I model local elites or parliaments into the game and the nobility-system described above? The short version: Each parliament comprises one or more provinces. A parliament is a poltical entity (just as countries and noblemen). Parliaments control the access to taxes. Depending on the opinion of the parliament (which is in turn influenced by factions, confessional law vs. confessional expectation, power of nobles versus power of parliament), players will face problems if they set the tax-rate too high. Unhappy parliaments might trigger rebellions.

The long version: First, I don't think it is necessary or reasonable from a game-play-perspective to use historical boundaries of parliaments. We would end up with too many parliaments that comprise but a single region, which would result in a micromanagement catastrophy. So, instead, I would go for one parliament for each of the larger historical unities. But the question is open for debate, of course. So, should we have one parliament for Bohemia, or rather – historically more accurate – one for Bohemia (proper), one for Moravia and one for Silesia (and perhaps one for Lusitania)? Should we have but one parliament for the whole of France, or one in Toulouse, one in Bordeaux, one in Aix, one in Grenoble, one in Dijon, one in Rennes, one in Rouen, one in Paris? And how many parliaments should "Spain" have? Should Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia and Navarre receive their own cortes? At the minimum, I think we'd need one parliament per traditional "kingdom". A lot of the monarchies in early modern Europe were not the nation-states that EUIV would make us believe. They were composite monarchies – different political unities united under a common monarch/dynasty, but each sticking to their traditional rights. This would be represented by the parliaments. Of course there is some freedom here.

Next, let's talk about the function of the parliaments. The idea is that a monarch needs to negotiate with the parliaments about taxrates. The abstract way would be to directly link the taxrate to opinion. So, e.g. if the estates' opinion of the crown is high, then they'd give you more money. This was the design of CK II. However, there was also the crown-law-mechanic in CK II, which made things a bit more interesting. I would expand in this direction a bit further: A monarch will set a permanent taxrate, a confessional-law and perhaps also some other settings for each of "his" parliaments. He can change it whenever he likes but he will need a diplomat for it. As you might have guessed, your settings will affect the opinion of the parliament, thereby influencing the chances of conflict with the parliament.


Noblemens' influence on the parliaments

So, all that doesn't really sound very creative and interesting, does it? But it gets more intriguing if you link noblemen (the agents I've been talking about above, the ones you use as your leaders, diplomats, etc.) to parliaments. The idea is to make the "final opinion" of a parliament come from two sources: the opinion of the lower noblitiy and the opinion of the landed higher nobility (i.e. the noblemen that are located in the provinces of the parliament). The influence of each faction (lower nobility = "parliament proper" versus high nobility = "noblemen") on the final parliament opinion is determined by the power-relationship which is represented by the rank of the noblemen. So, this would be the essential crosslink: the higher the rank of the noblemen, the more important their opinion in the parliament. By establishing/fostering a high rank-nobility via your court (high ranking nobles demand more grace), you can disempower the parliaments. If you've got 3 noblemen of rank 5 with a very high opinion of you in the parliament, then the parliaments' task is simply to rubberstamp your decisions. On the other hand, if you anger several high ranking noblemen, they might use their power over the parliament against you.

It's not really hard to transfer this idea into a forumla: In each province, there is a power-pool of 6 points. The noble in the province can take up to 5 of these 6 points, according to his rank. A nobleman of rank 2 wwould take 2 points, leaving 4 "power" to the lower nobility/parliament proper, which would mean that the lower nobility is pretty powerfull in this province. On the other hand, a level 5 noblemen would represent a giant landholder-magnat, owning most of the land, or having managed to turn most of the landed nobility into his minions/protegés. You will factor the lower nobilitys' opinion*power (1-5) and the noblemans' opinion *power (1-5). In order to determine the final opinion of the parliament, you simply add upp all the (factored) opinions and divide them by 6*number of provinces.

For example: Let's imagine a parliament with 5 provinces. The lower nobilitys' opinion of you is -20 (due to high taxes, confessional conflicts, etc. note that this value applies to ALL provinces of the parliament). But there is also one nobleman per province: rank 1 opinion +40 / rank 4 +130 / rank 3 + 90 / rank 3 + 95 / rank 2 +70. The final opinion of the parliament will be:

(1*40-5*20+4*130-1*20+3*90-3*20+3*95-3*20+2*70-4*20)/(6*5)=935/30=31.1

So, even though the lesser nobility doesn't think very favourably of you, the influence of the noblemen (who you buy with favours and graces at your court) shifts the parliaments' opinion in your favour.

Variables of parliaments

Here are the characteristics/variables of each parliament:

opinion of crown
culture
confessional structure
diplomatic interest
confessional law
tax-rate
power-balance (just an information that tells you how much power points the lower nobility has in relation to the higher nobility)
(One could also think about rates for manpower and tradepower, but that would throw up quite a lot of problems for little benefits)

Parliaments' opinion of the crown

The forumla to determine the final opinion of a parliament is described above (higher nobility vs. lower nobility). Here we need to descibe how the opinion of the lower nobility is determined. Note that cultural and diplomatic factions are already taken into account partly by the opinion of the noblemen. The idea is to make the opinion of the lower nobility depend on these factors:

1. Taxrate-happyness
2. Confessional happyness
(3. Administrative happyness)

1. taxrate-happyness

The higher the taxrate, the lower the opinion. That's pretty obvious. A taxrate could range (in steps of 10%) from 50% to 100% of the maximum taxpower of the estates (i.e. the accumulated taxvalue from all the provinces of the parliament). However, the opinion-malus/bonus for taxes depends on more factors, since parliaments had a political awareness, and there are circumstances in which the parliament will be more or less likely to agree to higher taxes. So, the base opinion modification for high/low taxes will be further influenced by:

+/- parliament is happy/unhappy with current confessional law
+ in war with rival (according to diplomatic interest of the parliament/its nobles)
+ monarch fights in a defensive war
+/- monarch fights war against confession X (the opinion bonus/malus depends on the confessional structure of the parliament)
- no war
- for war exhaustion
- enemy troops have laid siege to, or, even worse, have temporarily captured the province (within the last X years) – noblemen want reparation!
+/- prestige and legitimacy of monarch
- weak crown (if average opinion of all estates is low)


Note that I would turn all these factors not into a "permanent" opinion-malus, but into a factor that keeps building up over time. It could even have some negative effect on your legitimacy. You shouldn't be able to totally bleed out your country by engaging in defensive wars all the time. So, basically, the system should prevent excessive warmongering. Depending on the quality and circumstances of your wars, you might get more or less money from the parliament, but at some point, you'll either have to appease the parliament (confessional freedom in return for more taxes? More grace for the noblemen of this parliament?) or face opposition (once the opinion runs low, you will face conflicts). And then, even if you keep the parliament happy (by making concessions) – if you keep the taxrate high for too long, the chance of a popular uprising will increase (this I will describe later – conflicts). So, increasing the taxbase (buildings, technology, production efficiency) is a better option if you want to prevent opposition of the parliament and – ultimately- peasants (whose reactions are not part of the parliament-system - while noblemen agree, peasants can still perceive the burden to be too big; and if your noblemen can't deal with the peasants, they will need your support).

2. confessional/religious happyness

The confessional happyness is determined by comparing the confessions of the provinces of the parliament vs the confessional law set by the monarch for the parliament. To determine the the "confessional structure" of a parliament, just add all the power points of each confession (of the LOWER nobility!) in the parliaments' provinces. So, take the religion in a province (as stated in the province-window) and multiply it by the power-points of the lower nobility in that province (i.e. 6 – rank of the respective nobleman/high aristocracy). Then add all the power points of all the provinces. So, for example, in a parliament that comprises 3 regions, you could end up with a confessional structure of:

protestantism 3 – catholic 8 (note that there are 6 power points for each province; the remaining 7 power points belong to the high aristocracy/noblemen in relation to their rank)

This confessional structure will then be compared to the confessional law that you – as a monarch – have set for the parliament. The confessional law determines the tolerance towards religions and confessions that are different from your "national" confession. It can be set from 0 ("zero" tolerance) to 3 (freedom of conscience). To take up the example from above, let's assume your national (a bad word in this respect) confession is catholic and you have a national -3 tolerance for "heretic" confessions (which protestantism is for catholics). You've set the confessional tolerance in the province to a moderate 2. This will result in the following opinion-malus/bonus for the estates:


power-factor protestantism= 0,38 (power of protestantism/power of all other confessions, here 3/8)
tolerance factor for protestantism (national tolerance for prot) = -3
confessional law: + 2 (tolerated minority)
result for protestants' opinion:
(confessional tolerance + national tolerance)* 10*power factor =
(2-3)*3,8= -3.8

power-factor catholics: 2.67 (8/3)
confessional law: -2 (tolerated heretic minority)
tolerance factor for catholicism (true faith): +3
result for catholics' opinion:
(-2+3)*20.67= + 20.67

aggregated: -3.8+20.7= +16.9


So, confessional happyness will give you an opinion bonus of +16.9. However, this sounds as if confession is easy to manage. But it isn't if you take into account that the opinion of noblemen (not included in this calculation here) also influences the opinion of the parliament, and that noblemen have a confessional interest and even belong to confessional factions. So, raising the rank of a nobleman might shift the opinion of a parliament quite a lot (as a consequence of confession), even if it doesn't show up directly as confessional happyness. It is factored into the "high nobility"-opinion, not into the "low nobility"-opinion. However, individual noblemen are easier to appease than the broader local elites, because noblemen are willing to exchange confessional interests with interests of honour (grace), diplomatical interests and cultural interests. You can keep a nobleman happy in multiple ways, while the parliaments only click on taxes and confession (and perhaps a good administrator/governor).

Unlike taxes, I would turn confessional happyness into a permanent factor. However, if confessional happyness is low (I'm not even sure that this is possible with the formula above, might need some tweaks), there is a chance for religious unrest (calculated seperately from taxes-unrest!). This will be described in more detail in "conflicts".

(3. Administrative happyness)

Finally, I could also imagine an option to use diplomats (which are recruited among your noblemen) as governors of provinces (in this case: defined by parliament-boundaries). So, for example, you could appoint a governor for Sizily, representing the viceroy. This could give the appointed nobleman additional grace, and his administrative power would give a bonus/malus on the taxes, a malus representing either incapability, or, if caused by low opinion, corruption. However, if the governor is of a different culture or confession than the parliament, or if he has a low diplomatic skill, then his administration might trigger conflicts. You could then, for example unseat him, resulting in a grace-malus for the noble, but an opinion-increase for the parliament. There could be lots of very flavourable decisions and events here. Choose the right person for each parliament! The "right" person could be a hardliner oder an appeaser. This also increases the importance of the size of your manpower-pool: You need to have a large workforce of nobles to choose from, thus you need to be good at managing your nobles and their interests at your court!





That much about my ideas for parliaments/local elites. The interrelation between noblemen and parliament is the crux, offering lots of variety of constellations. I also think that the system would be flexible enough to portray the political structures in a lot of countries. As I've already mentioned, the polish szlachta could be represented by powerfull lower nobility (i.e. most noblemen would be of low rank). One could even bind the recrution of units (winged hussars) to a certain power-balance between high nobility (/centralised elites) and low nobility (/local elites). So, for example, you could only recruit winged hussars in the polish territories as Long as the high aristocracys' power share was 50% or less (in the sejm/parliament). Parliaments could even ask to reduce the power of the noblemen in conflict-constellations. And republican tradtions in general would be represented by lots of low rank nobles (which equals strong parliaments). For certain republics/government forms, the maximum rank for nobles could be capped. In the Netherlands, nobles could represent either the interests of patricians or of cities, so, instead of portraits, we would see the coat of arms of Amsterdam. Just link the government form to the form of portraits and names of noble-entities. China, as a centralized country, could have very weak local elites and very strong courtiers (i.e. lots of high rank-noblemen). As a speciality, China could rely heavily on commoners/bureaucrats - nobles that don't have families, so that their opinions, factions and money don't carry over from one generation to the next, which will make things a bit more difficult/less predictable for you as the emperor. And each new noblemen/commoner would get a randomly assigned court-faction, so that there will be lots of intrigues at court (lots of "favoritism"), which, in turn, will make it harder to keep the tax-rate high (since nobles totally dominate one central "parliament"). One could make China special by increasing all favoritism-mali * 2.

There are still a few unanswered questions. I will brainstorm on conflicts in a seperate chapter. What could be quite problematic is the question of parliaments being split up between nations. I would go for an additional opinion-malus for the parliament that controls fewer provinces of the original parliament. This would resemble that the unity of the kingdom/duchy/whatever of X can be used as a means against a monarch. A parliament can threaten a monarch to defect to the "bigger" part of the parliament. So a monarch would better handle such a territory with care. The Interface would be pretty straight-forward. You get a tab for "parliaments" with a list of all parliaments in your realm, their current taxrate, opinion, power-structure, etc. If you click on a specific parliament in the list, a window pops up, showing you the "governor" of the "parliament" (if any), the nobles that are part of the parliament and their power/rank, and the provinces that belong to the parliament (this could also be a mapfilter).

PS: The nobility/court would need but 1-2 tabs as well: one for your court (showing your royal attention, pomp + ceremony points; court-upgrades (chateaux, wonder cabinets, etc.), the list of all your nobles (listed according to their rank; malcontents and favourites are marked in red/green, you can also filter by faction), and perhaps a list of factions in your realm; and one for the crown-service (showing your advisory bodies and noble executive agents).
 
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Aethelred

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Double post! :D

As a gedankenexperiment, you could try to simulate the fronde within this system. I think it's flexible enough, without too much micromanagement. You first have an unhappy parliament (due to high taxation war exhaustion), then you have a conflict with some nobles due to favoritism (Mazarin, who was italian) and ("anti" Spanish versus "pro" Spanish) factions. Probably the nobles also perceived the conflict with the parliament as a weakness (that would be something to model into conflicts). The leader of the rebellion was pardoned by the king (in game terms, he got his rank lowered, but the family as a whole is not replaced).

And, to begin with, you needed a favourite (Mazarin) because in game terms, the country was ruled by a regency for little Louis, and this regencys' stats were so weak that you felt you had to foster a skilled man, especially because you were still engaging in a war. So, you simply spawned and dumped commoners until you got a skilled one, who happened to bear the name of Mazarini (in game terms, he would count as a commoner with his background). Then you either raised his rank or gave him other graces in order to make full use of his talents (opinion-modifier on stats!). Also, you made him your sole advisor (in order not to let the skills of the other advisors draw down Mazarins' skill). This naturally upset your nobility, due to the favouritism-mechanic. Lots of them became malcontents and finally - tada - you have a fronde!

As a grown-up, Louis would have so much court-power and grace (+X for Versailles, e.g.) that he could keep all noblemen happy and promote them to very high ranks, which allowed him to virtually deactivate the local nobility/parliaments (via noblemen) and rule as an absolutist monarch. Only peasants' rebellions would now keep him from squeezing out the country, and court intrigues (unhappy noblemen) could pose a thread. But Louis had enough court power (and skill in distributing grace/managing factions) to keep all of them happy.

I would find this much more interesting than the fronde as it is modeled in the game now (an event with the options: crush the rebels - rebel army spawns; and appease them - concessions to the nobility). Sure, the system is more complex and perhaps not easy to understand immerdiatly, but then again CK II didn't have a very easy accessability either. ;)

1x01.jpg

Perhaps a bit too complex....? :mellow:
 
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The system described here offers a myriad of conflict-constellations. EU only knows only conflicts between modern “nation-states”, while reducing internal affairs to mere events that reduce abstract factors like stability or (still) quite generic “rebels”. I will start with one of the conflict-constellation that the suggested system would offer:

crown versus parliament

For historical examples of this conflict constellation, see the confederation of the bohemian and some austrian estates against emperor Ferdinand II in 1618, or see the the English Civil War. Conflicts between parliament and crown can be very dangerous for the crown. What usually happened is that unhappy parliaments would first send complaints (bills, gravamina) to the ruler, pleading him to redress the perceived abuses. If that didn’t work, opposition would rise, the parliaments insisting on the ancient liberties and rights of their countries. They would meet without the consent of the monarch, and probably ally with other unhappy parliaments (ruled by the same monarch) in a confederation. If this escalated any further, officials of the crown would get defenestrated and armies would be assembled. The first thing a revolt will trigger should be a loss of prestige and legitimacy.

So, in game-terms, if a parliaments’ opinion of the crown (due to taxes, confessions, aggressive wars, bad governors, war exhaustion, etc.) went really low, you should do something about it. There could be an event in which the parliament asked to monarch to do something about the biggest source of negative opinion. So, for example: give us a better governor! But this event isn’t really necessary. If you don’t pay attention to the parliaments’ oppinion (without events), make ready for opposition. The lower the opinion of a parliament, the bigger the chance that it will “revolt”. It would be nice if a parliament also takes into account the current opinion of other parliaments, so that, for example, if there are many parliaments with low opinion of the crown, a parliament is more likely to revolt.

Once a parliament revolts, it will first check why it revolts to determine the quality of the revolt. This will be determined by the biggest negative opinion factor (with some randomness involved?). So, for example, taxes and bad administrators will lead to a revolt against tyranny and for the traditional liberties, confessional problems will lead to a ….well….confessional revolt. All parliaments in your realm will then get a +X% increase of their respective opinion malus. For example, if the protestant estates of Bohemia revolt (due to confessional problems), all parliaments in the realm will get an additional +X% malus on confessional opinion-mali. Then, each parliament in the realm will check if it joins the revolt, depending on the type of revolt and the perceived situation (do we also suffer from bad government/confessional problems? If significantly yes, we will join the rebellion!). Last but not least, foreign power could support revolting estates to a certain extent (this, however, should cost some prestige or legitimacy).

Next, the revolting parliament(s) will determine their own strength. I don’t know enough about these aspects of the game, but, for example, take the maximum available manpower in the parliaments’ provinces and turn them into regiments? The maximum available manpower for rebels has to be calculated according to the constellation of power.

The manpower that is “controlled” (according to rank) by “happy” noblemen in the province will be substracted. They stay loyal to you. All noblemen that are unhappy, however, will either stay neutral (holding back the manpower they control and resigning from all court-offices), or join the rebells (and add their manpower to the rebels’ troops and resign from all offices). The highest ranking rebel nobleman (or the most skilled?) in each parliament will take the lead of the rebels.

For confessional conflicts, I guess one should always make the non-state-religion revolt. So troops would be raised by the minority confession according to their power share in each region. Also, only noblemen of the minority confession will join the rebels.

Once the manpower/number of regiments that the rebels can muster is fixed, the rebel armies spawn. The manpower that the revolting parliament mobilizes will of course be substracted from the total manpower available to the crown. The army of a parliament would always spawn as one, not per province. You shouldn’t be able to blitz-crush opposition by striking at small contigents spread out over the prvinces.

Then it’s just an ordinary war that has to be ended via peace negotiations. If the monarch is loosing, he should loose a lot of prestige (but gain a bit legitimacy). He could offer certain freedoms, so that he would either receive very high opinion-mali for setting high taxes (i.e. he promises to reduce the tax-burden), for appointing a governor (the parliament does not let the monarch influence its affairs!), of for setting a certain confessional law (you guarantee confessional freedom to the revolting estates). An interesting concession for the estates could also be to decrease the rank of loyal nobles in the parliametns’ provinces. This would represent a reduction of royal proteges in the parliament. Actually, I could imagine this to be an automatic effect if the crown looses a rebellion. With extreme warscores, a parliament could declare itself independent and crown the leader of the rebellion (or the leader of a supporting foreign power - especially if the estates are split up between two powers) as king (e.g.
Frederick the winter king).

If you (as the crown) win, however, you should be allowed to replace nobles, according to the number of the warscore. So, with a complete victory, you can swipe out the entire rebelious nobility, giving their lands to loyal noblemen, thereby increasing your influence over the parliament in the future. This would feel extremely satisfying, I guess. Do you behead the leader of just banish him? Harhar! Also, there should be a positive opinion-modifier for the parliament (that slowly trickles out) to represent the effect of a crushed rebellion. Also, the monarch would get a boost in legitimacy and prestige.

Noblemen who situated in the rebellious parliament but who have stayed loyal to the crown might ask for rewards or reparations (they might ask for a temporary additional favour of X honour/grace). You could also give them the land that you’ve taken from the rebels (which, however, should raise their rank).
 
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darthfanta

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For some reason, I have come to the conclusion that EUIV as the ugly child of CKII and Victoria II. EUIV is has some elements from both games but did not inherit the best of them, like the characters , political parties and the complex population system from Victoria II and CKII. At the very minimum, I would like to see a ruling dynasties being properly implemented like in CKII, with you being able to control members of the family. It gives you quite a personal touch and makes royal marriages much more interesting.
 
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Ignudo

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While I haven't bought EUIV yet, I'm already quite worried, that it'll ultimately feel quite shallow again. Factions have already been big topic for EUIII mods, so I was quite disappointed that none of that went into EUIV.

I took the time to read through most of your suggestions and they sound quite good to me but if you really want to stir up a discussion about that you'll have to communicate your thoughts more briefly.

Here's hope that we'll get some faction DLC soon but I'm afraid it won't be nearly as substantial as necessary because this would indeed make most of the more abstract mechanics redundant.

@darthfanta: kinda feel the same. While I was looking forward to EUIV for years, I'll probably go buy CKII first, as soon as I get an adequate computer. I really don't get why Paradox sticks to the traditional differentiation between CK and EU after they learned that everybody just loves characters from the success of CKII. The abstract scope of EU was cool 10 years ago but todays it makes you feel like playing a digital board-game, when so much more would be possible.
 

Aethelred

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Finally some people have found their way into this thread! And thank you, Ignudo, for reading through my walls of text. :) The short version is already stated in the title of the thread (courts, factions, nobility, estates), but I agree I should create a summary at some point.

I feel the same, really. EU IV just doesn't connect to me as much as CK II. EU could benefit so much from a shift of perspective, from top-down to bottom-up. From the perspective of a 19th century nationalist historian who interacts with abstract concepts like "stability" and "technology" to the perspective of a 17th century monarch, who has to deal with groups of people and their interests. The really insteresting things that the period would offer are peripheral to EU, they just show up as events with 1-3 options. What remains is a number-crunching interaction with the mechanics and abstract concepts in order to paint the map in your colour. The funny thing is that courts would have offered a perfect and thrilling combination of "personal" aspects (RPG, handling people) with "political" aspects (political gameplay). It's a pity that this great opportunity has been missed. Conspiracies of noblemen, splendid chateaux, favourites and maitresses, patronage, favourites and minions, state chancellors as grey eminences, precedence quarrels, the deep consequences of the reformation and counterreformation, flavour, characters' portraits, heirs like Don Carlos ..... I miss all of these.
 
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Aethelred

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FACTIONS ('m trying to keep it shorter this time, no formulae ;) )

Before I’m going to continue the part about conflicts, I want to talk about factions, which are a central element in the court-parliaments-nobles triangle. Factions represent groups of elites who want you to act in their interest. I will keep talking about European monarchies and noblemen, but I’m quite positive that the system could depict a multitude of elites quite well.

Factions serve to give the players’ actions, be it a declaration of war, a change of taxerate or a promotion for a nobleman, consequences. By connecting noblemen with various factions/interests and also with influence (rank determines influence over parliaments), you should end up with an intriguingly complex environment in which you cannot make a “correct” decision, but only one (of many) decisions. The structure of your realm might actually become so complex that you as a player should not be able to make “better” decisions than the AI – only different ones.

The basic idea is to make noblemen (which I have already described above) members of factions. Just to recapitulate noblemen: There is one nobleman per province, noblemen have a rank which lets their opinion of you have more or less influence on the respective parliaments’ opinion, they act as your advisors, diplomats and leaders (their skill being influenced by their opinion of you), and you have to keep them happy by giving “grace” to them according to their rank. High ranking noblemen need more grace to keep them happy, and you also have to watch out if you give someone more grace than he would deserve by rank (favouritism and malcontents-mechanic). Grace comes from your court: there is a basic pool linked to court maintainance, court building and tech, then there is grace that costs ressources (money, administrative power) and there is grace that comes from court-offices.

So what could the agendas of these noblemen be, how many factions can there be? So far, I’ve come up with 4 suggestions. If this is not enough or too much (if there are too many factions, they will dilute and compensate each other, which is less fun), I don’t know.

1. Religious/confessional faction
2. Cultural/local faction
3. Diplomatical faction
4. Patronage-faction

Factions serve to translate your actions into opinion-mali or –boni with the members of the factions. Factions “observe” you in two ways:

1) Your personell-management. How do you treat the members of a faction? Faction A has an interest in getting more grace (offices, favours, privileges) than faction B. We can call this: competition for grace.
2) Your political actions in the stricter sense – this depends on the kind of faction. For example, confessional factions are interested in all of your actions that affect confession. I will touch on this further below for each of the four factions.

ad 1. Competition for grace:

Every member of a faction will get an opinion bonus or malus depending on how you treat their faction-members in relation to the competing faction. The following factors apply:

+ /- favouritism. You add up all the “favourite”-points (grace-points in excess of rank) of all members, substract all “malcontent”-points (grace points short of rank) and then compare the results of the competing factions. The difference will tell you which faction is favoured by you and will directly translate into an opinion-malus for the disadantaged faction (all members of it!) and an opinion-bonus for the preferred faction. So you should be carefull about your distribution of royal grace. Note that factionalism will limit your freedom (of promoting nobles in order to control parliaments, and also of favouring talented nobles in order to exploit their talents for crown-service).

+/- majorities: If a faction holds the majority in one of your advisory bodies (council of war and privy council), or in one of your executive-agent-pools (diplomats and leaders), the faction will get an additonal opinion malus/bonus.

1. Confessional factions

All noblemen of the same religion/faction form a religious/confessional faction. Apart from the competition for grace, the factions will also observe your confessional policy. So, members of the state-religion-faction will be upset when you allow high confessional tolerance for parliaments (static malus). And there will be an outcry if you actually change a confessional law in a minoritys' favour (temporary malus, decreases over time), and vice versa. Moreover, recent or current missionary activity will result in a big - for the respective faction.

2. Cultural factions

This is pretty obvious. All noblemen that have the same culture form a cultural faction. Again, there are many historical examples of this. Charles V had a burgundian/french court when he arrived in Spain, just as Ferdinand I arrived with a spanish court in Vienna (Ferdinando was by no means a german/austrian name back then! :D). And this lead to quarrels amongst the german/austrian courtiers and the spanish courtiers. A prime example is Ferdinands favourite Garbiel de Salamanca whom the austrian nobility literally hounded out of the house. In France, you’d have quite a lot of Italians. And you could also apply this to China (jurchen versus han).

There doesn’t really need to be any further interest than “competition for grace” for cultural factions. Or wait, can you change your “state culture”? And if we actually had a court-menu, where we can “build” pieces of art, then we could, for exampe switch from “opera in italian” to “opera in french”. But then this would be too fiddly.

PS: One could also turn noblemen of recently (5-10 years?) conquered povinces into a single faction (this could actually replace the overextension mechanic).

3. Diplomatic factions

Diplomatical factions represent anti-X and pro-X factions of noblemen in your realm. There are many examples for political or diplomatic factions in history. For example there were groups in the Habsburg monarchy that stressed affairs of the HRR, while others stressed “austrian” issues. Italy was dominated by the Spain versus France-conflict throughout the 16th century. You can find many many more examples of that.

How to model anti- and pro-factions into the suggested system? Each nobleman in your realm will be part of an “anti”-faction. An anti-faction is a faction that is interested in aggressive measures against one of the three nations that you’ve defined as your rivals. An anti-faction of your rival X automatically counts as a pro-faction of rival Y and Z. This will make the diplomatic factions in your realm compete with each other. If you’ve tagged France and Spain as your rivals, you will have an anti-Spain (pro France) and an anti-France (pro Spain) faction in your realm. How to determine if a nobleman is member of faction A or B? I’d make a nobleman who is located in a province adjacent to a province of your rival a member of the respective anti-faction. All noblemen who are not adjacent to a rival province are either randomly assigned to an existing faction, or might even be considered neutral (if you want diplomatic factions to have less influence). Moreover, your actions might result in an additional opinion +/- for each advisor in your privy-council of war-council who belongs to the respective faction (and the advisors' personal opinion of you would change more drastically).

Apart from competition for grace, diplomatic factions judge you by your aggressive or accomodating actions vis-à-vis rival countries. I think it’s very easy to define aggressive (fabricate claim, declare war, insult, etc.) and accomodating (sue for peace, improve relations, royal marriage, etc.) actions. So, if you take an aggressive action against Spain or actions to appeal France, the anti-Spain (=pro France) faction will like you more. But if you appeal Spain or are aggressive versus France, the anti Spain faction will like you less. Thus, switching your diplomatic stance, or dealing with several geopolitical threats at once is not easy. You always have to make sure that the factions follow suit, or at least carefully balance them out according to your needs.

So, if you plan to go to war against Spain, don't fill your councils with courtiers who belong to the "anti France"-faction. Not only will your decisions upset them (and thereby the whole faction), but also, by decreasing their opinion of you, they will perform their advisor-job in a lackluster way so that you get less monarch power points (remember that opinion influences skill!). It would also be a pity if your best general was a member of the anti-France faction. So you better make sure to grow (i.e. increase his opinion) a good anti-Spain general before the war. This however, will upset some other nobles, as you have to achieve the opinion gain via grace/favouritism. Of course you could also decide to spawn a skilled commoner as a general, but this would then upset all nobles across faction-borders. :D

Some questions remain open. For example: what happens if you'd like to change your rival? And what happens if you take aggressive measures against countries that are not tagged as your rivals? Well, I guess it would be good to make aggressive actions against non-rival-countries strain the opinion of all diplomatical factions, or for that matter, if there are no diplomatical factions in your country (for you haven't defined any rival countries), then the opinion of all your noblemen should be affected negatively. You should really make use of the rival-feature in order to show your nobles the direction of your rule (and in order to make you incapable of simply ignoring the faction-system). Can you easily chnge rivals? Well, if you cancel a rivalry with a nation, this should give you a huge opinion malus with all the noblemen who have formed part of the anti-X faction. So, the faction will dissolve, but you will receive a "final" big opinion-strike with all of its former members. It could also cost a lot of diplomatical power. However, I can imagine to allow players to pick a new rival when they've practically "defeated" one of their rival countries. I don't know what the best indicator of power is in the game - income? Then you could say that if the rival country gains less than 1/4 of your income, it counts as defeated and you can stop your rivalry with it without suffering the big opinion-malus.

4. Patronage factions

This idea sprang to my mind only lately. It would be particularly handy for nations that lack other sorts of factions. Just take the highest ranking nobles (rank/money/current grace) in your realm and turn each of them into a patronage-faction. Other nobles will then be randomly assigned to one of your highest noblemen (more likely if they are situated in the same parliament). This would represent that they act as patrons, doing their best to install their minions and protegés. So, for example, if there are two noblemen of rank 4 in your realm, each of them will have his minions and retinue.

If you want to make it more complicated, make it the highest ranking 3 or 4 nobles instead of 2. I could imagine this faction-type to be pretty interesting for countries like China, where we would have no noblefamilies (so: no opinion- and faction-stability across generations), but only relatively short termed bureaucrats who get assigned a random patronage-faction when they're spawned. Lots of trouble ahead!

There doesn’t really need to be any further interest than “competition for grace” for patronage factions.






So, different kinds of factions and parties would permeate the entire nobility of your realm. Influence over parliaments and skilled "labourforce", your "uses" for noblemen, so to speak, would then be linked to the interests of the noblemen. You can't just take from noblemen, you also have to give. You have troubles with parliament X and therefore need to support of nobleman Y, who is the highest ranking nobleman situated in this parliament? Well, then you have to make him happy by giving him more grace. This, however, will also make his faction happy, while at the same time making the competing factions unhappy. By managing grace and court offices, you would have to find a balance for your current political situation. And it should be extremely hard if not impossible to find an "optimal" solution. By acquiring more court-power, you have the capability to raise the ranks of your noblemen, which will let them have more influence over parliaments (which will reduce the threat of big rebellions). However, noblemen are not only interested in their absolute rank, they're also interested in their relative rank, i.e. how much grace they receive in comparison to other noblemen. At some points, some factions might get very strong and important while others are in decline. More often, several interests and factions will overlap. For example, the practical regency of the Guises in mid 16th century France was not only opposed for confessional reasons, but also due to reasons of patronage.

Conflicts with factions will be described later on. You can expect that factions might target each other (e.g. Amboise conspiracy) before they actually dare to touch the crown itself. But of course you could also try to prevent some conflicts by letting every noble do as he likes in his dominion. This would be represented by appeasing everyone with "privileges" (constant payment of money), which basically means: very low crown authority. The king is king only by name. You'd then have to build up a new pool of loyal nobles in order to gain back authority and gain back your money (i.e. revoke privileges) to press your own interest over that of your nobles.
 
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Aethelred

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Ehrm, how to give this a shameless bump? Nobody interested in giving feedback, telling me his own ideas, discussing how courts and aristocracy could find their way into the game in an interesting way?

I will sum up my ideas as short as possible:

There are two new kinds of political players: noblemen (1 per province) and parliaments (1 for each group of provinces).

Noblemen (courts and factions):

Noblemen represent the upper level elites that can be centralised. You use noblemen in two ways:

1. As diplomats, military leaders (generals and admirals) and as advisors (you will have a warcouncil and a privy council). How well they fulfill their tasks depends on their opinion of you and their natural skill. In order to make skill count, all tasks (diplomatical, military, advisory) are influenced by the quality of the characters.
2. Noblemen influence the parliaments that they're members of (depends on the province in which they're situated). The higher the rank of a nobleman, the bigger the influence that his (positive, but also negative) opinion will have on the parliament.

You manage noblemens' opinions primarily by bestowing grace on them. Grace (court power/central power) can be generated in various ways. You will have a general pool of grace (linked to tech, buildings like chateaux, wonder cabinets, etc; prestige) and you can create ad-hoc grace (favours, privileges, presents, court offices, promotions). The higher the rank of a noble, the more grace it needs to keep him happy. If you give more grace to a nobleman than his rank would suggest, he will count as your favourite (which will upset other nobles), if you give less grace, he will count as a "malcontent". So, just increasing your overall court-power will not dissolve all problems. Nobles keep a close eye on the distribution of grace, not just the absolute amount of it.

Moreover, each nobleman is a member of factions. The opinion of a nobleman is heavily influenced by how you treat his respective factions. This comprises both: how much grace you give to a faction (in relation to the competing factions) and how much you act in or against a factions' interest. The factions are: confessional (pretty clear), diplomatical (factions linked to your rival-countries; e.g. in Tuscany, there can be an anti-Spain and an anti-France faction), cultural (pretty clear as well), patronage (groups of nobles forming around the highest ranking nobles in your realm).

Unhappy nobles tend to fulfill their tasks in a lackluster way (opinion influences skill), they might leave your court (they will not "work" for you, your court power might decrease), and they can ultimately even conspire against you. Unhappy noble factions are more dangerous. If they're unhappy they will first tend to aggressive actions against their rival parties, or asking you to take a side, and ultimately, they may even try a coup against the crown or might form an alliance with unhappy parliaments.

Parliaments:

Parliaments represent the numerous lower level elites that are situated on a local level. For Europe, they would be called Stände/estates/cortes/sejm/parliament. A strong lower elite (i.e. low rank noblemen) represents a strong parliamentary tradition (suitable for example for republics or the polish szlachta). Parliaments control the access to your realms tax-ressources and bind it to their interests (confessional, political). For example, if you're fighting a defensive war, setting the taxrate high will not give you too much of an opinion malus. An offensive war, however, is something different. You can always change taxrates, confessional laws, etc. but it will lead to opinion changes of the parliament. Unlike noblemen, you cannot directly influence parliaments via grace/court power. The broad local elites cannot be "centralised", they can only be disempowered by high nobility (high rank noblemen that exert lots of influence in the parliaments).

Unhappy parliaments will first ask their monarch (bills, gravamina, petitions) to abolish the reasons of their unhappyness (taxrate, confessional laws, governors). If this doesn't help, they might consider violent opposition. They search for allies amongst noblemen and other parliaments. Note that peasants' rebellions are yet something different from confederations of parliaments. Even though parliaments might happily allow you high taxrates over longer periods of time if the circumstances are right, peasant rebellions might spring up. Nobles and parliaments represent elites, not the ordinary population.
 

LoneTophat

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Although this really is TLDR, I love everything I've so far gleaned through skimming. I started with EUIII and Victoria 2, but Crusader Kings 2 gave me an appreciation for not only breadth of simulation, but depth. I don't agree with the idea that we should keep ideas found to be successful in CK2 out of EUIV. They're both equally wonderful games certainly, but they can learn a lot from each other. I wouldn't mind a deeper political simulation, though I doubt Paradox will ever put the work into making it viable and enjoyable. It will therefor fall squarely on the modders shoulders, so I suggest you get in touch with Gigau and Lukew, perhaps they'd like to hear your ideas about this. I doubt you'll ever have the depth you seek, but I'm sure some of your ideas are viable in some way or another, through events and trigger modifiers.
 

pac

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You're going through exactly the same kind of brainstorming process that I did when I was first developing the Faction system for Magna Mundi, for EUIII. =)

(Although I never considered adding lots of individual characters. That's too CK, I think.)

The problem is that, compared with CK, in EU you have far more variety of types of countries and their governments. What you've set out would be hugely challenging to mod — but even then, you've only got something that would apply to a minority of states: west European feudal monarchies, moving towards Constitutionalism or Absolutism, with the lurking threat of radical Republicanism.

But that still leaves not only the east European countries, Muslim countries and republics that you also have in CK, but a whole world full of diverse governments, plus new forms of autocratic despotism as in Russia, new types of republic as in the Netherlands and the PLC, etc, etc. (Also, it wouldn't apply terribly well to the HRE, where there's a whole imperial layer of government outside any single member state that would need to be taken into account in any events.)

Not to mention that even in the (ex-)feudal monarchies, lots of groups other than the grand aristocracy began to hold a lot of power, as cities and trade grew. In the English Civil War, for example, almost all the highest-ranking nobility sided with the king (the exception being the Duke of Essex). Parliament was dominated by members the gentry (a rank not represented as individuals at the CK level of detail). Parliament won.

So I would recommend targeting something a lot simpler and more broadly applicable. A handful of different power groups (factions); the demands they make of the player as the government; the crises that occur when they vie for dominance.