Boycott Paradox interactive games!

[kontinos]

Development is an addition to the game.

But buildings is not, and linking the two was a poor choice in regard to tying the one to the dlc.
And development also isn't an addition, it's a change, raising development is an addition, which however is tied to a core mechanic like buildings.

 

[FieldMedic]

So instead of rolling back to a patch version you like, instead of being happy about free content, instead of paying the modest price for the expansions, you'd rather complain because you want your cake, and eat it too.

I see.

 

[Wizzington]

But is required for something that is a replacement of a core mechanic to work as intended.

Buildings work perfectly fine without development, and even without Common Sense it's a far better system than the old one.

But buildings is not, and linking the two was a poor choice in regard to tying the one to the dlc.

I think here is where we'll just have to agree to disagree. The building rework would simply not have happened without development to link it to because the two were simultaneously designed.

 

[Kapitalisti]

If it's buildings you're after then look no further: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=460340751&searchtext=building

There, problem solved and everyone's happy.

 

[Metz]

Can those who don't have the DLC get an option to turn off development? That way they don't complain about it again.

 

[Phönix]

Buildings work perfectly fine without development, and even without Common Sense it's a far better system than the old one.

Thats a personal opinion dont you agree?

 

[piccamo]

I don't consider buildings to be important at all. I only ever use 2 slots tops anyway: manufacturies and the occasional fortress. I have the DLC, but building slots are not something that ever seemed to matter to me anyway. Most of the buildings suck and there are better things to spend gold on (like mercenaries or colonies). I don't buy that buildings are a core part of the game.

 

[Swami]

you can play the old versions... no one forces you to play the new patch, all you have to do is choose ver 1.11.4 and boom, none of the new stuff

Yes but then you can't buy any future DLC's and also don't get any future patches

 

[kontinos]

Can those who don't have the DLC get an option to turn off development? That way they don't complain about it again.

Nobody complains about development. I own CS and i like it very much.
The complaint is about a new added feature being tied with a core game mechanic like buildings, and one of the two being behind a paywall.

 

[Phönix]

I don't buy that buildings are a core part of the game.

Hmmm... Hard to comment on this.

 

[Wizzington]

Thats a personal opinion dont you agree?

It's my opinion as one of the two people who design the expansions, and it's ultimately our opinions that decide what features are changed/added and how.

It's also my observation that people who call the building system without development 'unplayable' or 'half a feature' can never justify this with a gameplay argument, and their discontent almost always seems rooted in some manufactured moral outrage that has nothing to do with the actual state of the game.

It's further my observation that even people who don't have Common Sense aren't exactly clamoring to have the buildings system back.

 

[Phönix]

Yes but then you can't buy any future DLC's and also don't get any future patches

For me that is not a problem. If the development stops for the vanila game, I have 0 problem with it. The game worked great without further patches, i.e. no big issues at least that I had.

The problem is releasing a demo and calling it a patch. Thats deceitful.

 

[Phönix]

It's my opinion as one of the two people who design the expansions, and it's ultimately our opinions that decide what features are changed/added and how.

The last part is not quite true and in extreme cases can lead to legal actions. There are some things called consumer protection laws. Oh and btw, please dont start the meme things again guys, no I am not saying I will, I am simply saying that in general that statement is not fully corrent.

But bakc to the quote, while you are basically right, I as a consumer also have the right to call you out on this.

 

[kontinos]

Buildings work perfectly fine without development, and even without Common Sense it's a far better system than the old one.

I think here is where we'll just have to agree to disagree. The building rework would simply not have happened without development to link it to because the two were simultaneously designed.

I agree it's a far better system. I also understand you couldn't develop or maintain the game keeping in mind both building systems.
But you know what? There was a very simple solution to all this. On launch of CS there could have been this little paragraph from you:
"The building rework would simply not have happened without development to link it to because the two were simultaneously designed. So, unfortunately, though we provide our customers with the new building system, since we can't maintain both, and with the new development system for their provinces, we need to keep the development raising system in the dlc, becuase it is a new feature (since you couldn't raise base tax etc. with the previous system). This will be locked for the people who don't own Common Sense. We are sorry but this is a matter of dealing with the cost of both developing the new system and maintaining the previous one. Thank you for your understanding.
However, the new system has this and those features, so we feel we are not taking away anything from your gaming experience, because even without the dlc, province development does (not) add this and this, and you will not feel any major difference.
Paradox Studios".

 

[Wizzington]

The last part is not quite true and in extreme cases can lead to legal actions. There are some things called consumer protection laws. Oh and btw, please dont start the meme things again guys, no I am not saying I will, I am simply saying that in general that statement is not fully corrent.

But bakc to the quote, while you are basically right, I as a consumer also hate the right to call you out on this.

You probably wouldn't have had to suffer quite so much ridicule if you hadn't decided to treat the exact specifics of paid-vs-free feature distribution in an expansion for a computer game as the Last Stand of Free Speech and True Liberty, FYI.

 

[piccamo]

Hmmm... Hard to comment on this.

Look at it this way, what is the goal of the game? Primarily, it is to empire-build. In other words, the game's mechanics support blobbing as much as possible. Let's run down how the patch/DLC affects this.

• Without the DLC, are you stopped from being able to blob? Clearly, no.
• Do buildings enhance your ability to blob? Marginally, if at all.
• Can you still build the best buildings that provide the marginal help to blob? Yes. (primarily, forts)
• Does not having the DLC restrict you from using a primary mechanic of the game? No. You can still wage war. You can still fabricate Casus Bellis. You can still conquer in multiple ways (vassalizing, direct conquest).
• What primarily do? They enable Tall Empires to be more successful because they magnify the benefits of a higher development.

So, the last point is about the only time that buildings matter. Given that the DLC's primary purpose is to promote tall empires, while the vanilla game is not, I do not think that the buildings matter all that much. They are only a primary factor if you are building a tall empire. Previous versions of the game did a poor job promoting tall empires since that was not a design goal. The old building system was less worthwhile than the current one since all of the buildings cost monarch points to build, usually at a rate that was not worthwhile for the player.

Please let me know if I'm missing something. I didn't read through all 8 pages, only the first and last pages.

 

[Phönix]

You probably wouldn't have had to suffer quite so much ridicule if you hadn't decided to treat the exact specifics of paid-vs-free feature distribution in an expansion for a computer game as the Last Stand of Free Speech and True Liberty, FYI.

Is that why I am beeing threadtened with a ban already in private conversations? (I will not say by whom or in what form, but yes I am actually )

 

[Wizzington]

I agree it's a far better system. I also understand you couldn't develop or maintain the game keeping in mind both building systems.
But you know what? There was a very simple solution to all this. On launch of CS there could have been this little paragraph from you:
"The building rework would simply not have happened without development to link it to because the two were simultaneously designed. So, unfortunately, though we provide our customers with the new building system, since we can't maintain both, and with the new development system for their provinces, we need to keep the development raising system in the dlc, becuase it is a new feature (since you couldn't raise base tax etc. with the previous system). This will be locked for the people who don't own Common Sense. We are sorry but this is a matter of dealing with the cost of both developing the new system and maintaining the previous one. Thank you for your understanding.
However, the new system has this and those features, so we feel we are not taking away anything from your gaming experience, since even without the dlc, province development does (not) add this and this, and you will not feel any major difference.
Paradox Studios".

I'm fairly certain I've said these exact things in various threads spawned on this topic. I don't think forum outrage automatically necessitates an official response.

 

[Phönix]

I agree it's a far better system. I also understand you couldn't develop or maintain the game keeping in mind both building systems.
But you know what? There was a very simple solution to all this. On launch of CS there could have been this little paragraph from you:
"The building rework would simply not have happened without development to link it to because the two were simultaneously designed. So, unfortunately, though we provide our customers with the new building system, since we can't maintain both, and with the new development system for their provinces, we need to keep the development raising system in the dlc, becuase it is a new feature (since you couldn't raise base tax etc. with the previous system). This will be locked for the people who don't own Common Sense. We are sorry but this is a matter of dealing with the cost of both developing the new system and maintaining the previous one. Thank you for your understanding.
However, the new system has this and those features, so we feel we are not taking away anything from your gaming experience, because even without the dlc, province development does (not) add this and this, and you will not feel any major difference.
Paradox Studios".

That would have indeed gone a LOOOOOOONG way.

 

[Phönix]

I'm fairly certain I've said these exact things in various threads spawned on this topic. I don't think forum outrage automatically necessitates an official response.

It should have been an information before downloading a patch, not on a thread where someone is agry with the changes.