Boycott Paradox interactive games!

[Kitsuka]

If I understand the OP correctly he doesn't have a problem with any of the content of the base game and its DLCs, but in the way its organized. With the new development system and the way buildings are done now it seems the it is only halfway implemented unless you have CS, and to a certain extent i can agree with that. If all the features relating to this were all included in the base game or just in a dlc i don't think he would have a problem.

For me however this is all a none issue since it is my belief that none of their games are fully functional unless you have the latest patch and every dlc for the given game.

 

[jorishilhorst]

Every once and a while here you see someone threatening to sue Paradox and it's almost always a European. Anyone in Europe have an enlightening explanation?

We make up a substantial percentage of the customer base so statistically are more likely to provide the culprit?
Also we have quite a lot of consumer protection laws in Europe and also in the individual nations inside Europe, so I guess people develop a false sense of entitlement? or misunderstand the protection they offer?
Also Europe is really big?
Don't forget, Europe includes russia and turkey, so pick a fight with us, you also pick a fight with asia. just sayin'

 

[happymix91]

With that post I can mostly agree. The only part I disagree with is that this was not new. To my experiance this was new from paradox.

BUT, with the rest I do agree. You in no way have to either change your ways or appologise. I am not asking for anything of that form. All I am saying is that as a customer, I disagree with your decision and will no longer follow this company. It is my right to do so and I also believe my right to say why I am doing it and give others an understanding of it. If they agree with oyu (which seems to be the case) then thats their choice.

Thats all.

As sales of dlc go better and better and the number of users of EU4 calculated at steam goes bigger and bigger, I think that most consumers of Paradox are with Paradox and its policy about dlcs.

Too bad, your boycott has no meaning.

 

[Phönix]

80 EMPLOYEES not 80 devs. I think the total number of devs is more around 10-15 and PI is working on multiple games simultaneously (4 right now, I think: EUIV, CKII, HOIIV, and Stellaris). I don't think anyone claimed they were inexperienced, just that their resources aren't on the same scale as EA, which is sort of important to think about when it comes to how much stuff you can give away for free and how much you need to charge for.

For the thousanth time, I dont want them to give stuff away for free. When have I said it? Please quote it.

It's unfortunate to see that free speech is just as misunderstood in Europe as in here in the U.S. It's not uncommon for someone to get fired or suspended from a company for saying something horrible (usually on social media) and masses of people to complain that free speech is being trampled.

Undortunately you misudnerstand it. People have a right to say many things, so long as its not criminal (i.e. calling for violence etc. or insulting someone) and done in a relatively regulated way. (ie. in this example me making a single thread and talking about it is I feel regulated. Making a spamlike comment in 100s of threads would not be).

Beeing able to listen to others oppinions is the cornerstone of civilisation, and something that is currently really lacking. (not about this thread but irl, critisising many things that we should be able to, like "positive discrimination" etc. often leads to problems). But this is off topic, so I would appreciate it if we could stay away from this. I for my part will not continue this talk. If you want to have the last word please feel free but then lets get back to the topic at hand ok ?.

 

[Krajzen]

Dear OP,

I respectfully disagree with you

sincerely - loud minority

 

[Phönix]

Lets get back to a different topic you mentioned . What sort of legal actions are you going to take exactly?

.. talk about not listening, or just trolling.. I EXPLICITLY said I was not talking about myself that I simply said that his statement was not 100% true in general. Thats all. There is no talk of me taking any form of legal actions. NONE.

 

[Phönix]

If I understand the OP correctly he doesn't have a problem with any of the content of the base game and its DLCs, but in the way its organized. With the new development system and the way buildings are done now it seems the it is only halfway implemented unless you have CS, and to a certain extent i can agree with that. If all the features relating to this were all included in the base game or just in a dlc i don't think he would have a problem.

Thats is indeed my point.

 

[kviiri]

People have a right to say many things, so long as its not criminal (i.e. calling for violence etc. or insulting someone) and done in a relatively regulated way.

Yeah, you're right. However, it has little bearance here, because your right to express your opinions doesn't oblige other people to host your opinions. In this case, by other people I mean this forum. Forums and other websites barring certain topics, even completely legal ones, is 100% within the protection of free speech.

 

[happymix91]

If I understand the OP correctly he doesn't have a problem with any of the content of the base game and its DLCs, but in the way its organized. With the new development system and the way buildings are done now it seems the it is only halfway implemented unless you have CS, and to a certain extent i can agree with that. If all the features relating to this were all included in the base game or just in a dlc i don't think he would have a problem.

For me however this is all a none issue since it is my belief that none of their games are fully functional unless you have the latest patch and every dlc for the given game.

New building system itself, without development system, achieved a great improvement from older system which had long been a problem from EU3. And it can work perfectly without development system.

 

[Sigwald]

@Wiz : If I may, you should spend less time answering to morons and more working on the next expansion instead.

Dammit, I'd rather read your posts about estates than that.

 

[net.split]

People find all kinds of absurd reasons to not buy a thing.

As bizarre as this particular one is, I've seen worse.

Also I think everyone but the OP knows he's going to be buying more Paradox stuff in the future.

 

[Phönix]

Yeah, you're right. However, it has little bearance here, because your right to express your opinions doesn't oblige other people to host your opinions. In this case, by other people I mean this forum. Forums and other websites barring certain topics, even completely legal ones, is 100% within the protection of free speech.

It is within the legal protection, but not the moral one, nor the interest of the consumer and you as a consumer should be more intereted with the latter, then the legal protection in this case should you not?
Btw, before the rant starts again, let me just say that by moral I dont meen an entitled view that my oppinion is the moral throuth and theirs is not, but that this forum as a discussion board for paying customer should also host diagreeing oppinions, just like a say monarchy allows for critisising it in not only private but also public places, like parks etc, even though the regen legally owns the country, and even private land to some degree (In britain for example you dont just buy a house, you buy the house and lease the land for like a hundred years or so and of course the income goes to the state, not the pocets of the regent, but officially still her land.). None the less peoples right to speak is given by what is broadly refered to free speach, which means something different to everyone and something even more different legally, but its a general concept that i am sure this falls under as well, at least to some degree.

The main point is, this is a public (though privatly owned) forum and as such the public has the right (maybe not the 100% legal, but at least the moral) to say their oppinion, so long as basics of human conduct are obseved, which I believe I am doing. Though I believe that some of the comments towards me, were not always so ...polite... I am doing my best not to follow suit and to remain rational.

I have an opinion and I have said it. If you guys dont agreee, then that is your choise, but why judge me for sying mine?

 

[Phönix]

New building system itself, without development system, achieved a great improvement from older system which had long been a problem from EU3. And it can work perfectly without development system.

But that is an oppinion, and even if 99% agreed with it, (which I am not sure they do, since this expansion has a mixed review on steam btw) it would still be an oppinion. Unless its a strict improvement, in a mathematical sense, your argument does not counter mine.

 

[kontinos]

People find all kinds of absurd reasons to not buy a thing.

As bizarre as this particular one is, I've seen worse.

Also I think everyone but the OP knows he's going to be buying more Paradox stuff in the future.

And what about people who have already bought the dlc and still have objections of how it was implemented?

 

[Phönix]

@Wiz : If I may, you should spend less time answering to morons and more working on the next expansion instead.

Dammit, I'd rather read your posts about estates than that.

And now you call me a moran, thank you for strengthening my points .

 

[net.split]

And what about people who have already bought the dlc and still have objections of how it was implemented?

I think you're all doing a perfectly good job of making your voices heard. What else do you want?

I object to several dozen things that are done in EU4 from a design perspective, because just like most other people here I'm an opinionated tinkerer that's essentially impossible for someone else to please 100%. And like everyone else I make noise about the stuff I don't like or want done differently.

The main difference is that I don't bother manufacturing moral outrage to justify my complaints. Everyone who does this makes a parody of themselves. Get some perspective.

 

[kontinos]

I think you're all doing a perfectly good job of making your voices heard. What else do you want?

I object to several dozen things that are done in EU4 from a design perspective, because just like most other people here I'm an opinionated tinkerer that's essentially impossible for someone else to please 100%. And like everyone else I make noise about the stuff I don't like or want done differently.

The main difference is that I don't bother manufacturing moral outrage to justify my complaints. Everyone who does this makes a parody of themselves. Get some perspective.

And why is this, especially regarding the part of "manufacturing moral outrage to justify my complaints" directioned at me?

 

[Xaster]

It's unfortunate to see that free speech is just as misunderstood in Europe as in here in the U.S. Anyone in Europe have an enlightening explanation?

Well, enlightening certainly not, but, for what I can generally observe, I would say that the problem is not in the country itself, but in the concept of "freedom". I think that a lot of people living in developed country are so used to freedoms that start to consider them a "duty" more than a "right".
So, if I have the "right" to say something because of speech freedom, I'll try really hard to give an interesting, informed and educated opinion about something.
But if I have the "duty" to say something because I'm free to say anything I want, well, I'll say anything I want without considering if is something worth listening.
To sum It up, I believe that many people misunderstand free speech because they see It more as a mean than an end.
At least this is (part of) my opinion on the subject.

Indeed they do. I am not saying they have no right to speak their mind. When have I done so?

Exactly at the same time when I said that you did so: never.
I was only reminding you that if (almost) everyone disagree with you and They are telling you, maybe you should reconsider your actions.

 

[net.split]

And why is this, especially regarding the part of "manufacturing moral outrage to justify my complaints" directioned at me?

That wasn't really intended. Parsing the sentence, the entities "manufacturing moral outrage" would be directed to "everyone who does this." Which wouldn't include you if you haven't been making any moral arguments (I honestly have no idea if you have or haven't).

In general I don't think anyone here has an attitude of "people who don't like something shouldn't complain about it," so there's nothing to worry about (other than being disagreed with if that bothers you) if you just plain don't like something and want to say so. Pretty much anyone with a significant post count here has complained about something, probably lots of somethings. I'd bet even Wiz, as he started out as a fan and modder (and you don't mod something you already think is just perfect as-is).

 

[Tacticus101]

Of course not. But i think those anticipations were expected.
And if you had voiced your answers like today sooner, everything would have been solved.
And i also appreciate your presence in this topic.
I am covered by your answers and thank you for putting time in answering here.
I guess that from now on, you might not scry into the future, but will put a bit of consideration into such matters precautionally.

The same answer has been given in other threads (using the search function would have found you them) plenty of times. In fact, in this thread I gave the same answer as Wiz 5 pages earlier and you just ignored me. The issue was not Paradox's lack on information, it was you making an assumption and refusing to question it until forced to.

Undortunately you misudnerstand it. People have a right to say many things, so long as its not criminal (i.e. calling for violence etc. or insulting someone) and done in a relatively regulated way. (ie. in this example me making a single thread and talking about it is I feel regulated. Making a spamlike comment in 100s of threads would not be).
.

Btw, before the rant starts again, let me just say that by moral I dont meen an entitled view that my oppinion is the moral throuth and theirs is not, but that this forum as a discussion board for paying customer should also host diagreeing oppinions, just like a say monarchy allows for critisising it in not only private but also public places, like parks etc, even though the regen legally owns the country, and even private land to some degree (In britain for example you dont just buy a house, you buy the house and lease the land for like a hundred years or so and of course the income goes to the state, not the pocets of the regent, but officially still her land.). None the less peoples right to speak is given by what is broadly refered to free speach, which means something different to everyone and something even more different legally, but its a general concept that i am sure this falls under as well, at least to some degree.

The main point is, this is a public (though privatly owned) forum and as such the public has the right (maybe not the 100% legal, but at least the moral) to say their oppinion, so long as basics of human conduct are obseved, which I believe I am doing. Though I believe that some of the comments towards me, were not always so ...polite... I am doing my best not to follow suit and to remain rational.

Firstly, you are wrong about the Monarchy thing. It is not just monarchies that technically own the land in the country, all Governments do and have the Legal right to take that land (with compensation) when they wish, particularly the democratic ones. As a result, you cant argue that a countries lands count as private, even when directly owned by the monarchy and government (ie, Crown estates) unless they are being leased to someone (in which case it is their private property) or have a legal protection from trespass (like military bases).

Secondly, opening private land (or a Forum) to the public does not give you the same rights as you would have in a truly public environment such as the street or in a personal environment like your own home. The owners of the private area, whether it be a Museum, Club or Forum, have every right to eject you from the premises if they want to, entirely legally (assuming they don't break any other laws in the process). You registered on the forum and have accepted the forum rules, if you violate them then the Forum mods will legally, morally and spiritually eject you.

Thirdly, even entirely public environments have their own limitations. Things such as harassment, defamation, threats, incitement and public nuisance are all things that can get you in trouble (whether arrested, asked to move, sued or warned). Expressing your opinion is totally allowed, as long as you remain somewhat polite, but going further can and will get you in trouble because it violates both legal rights in most countries AND other human rights.