Border issues

[Exel]

First of all, Finland became independent in 1917, and that happens to be within the timeframe of the game. Meaning that once the independence happens, Finland will have an ahistorical border. Secondly, I'm not talking about map projection as Grosshaus suggested. Just look at the shape of the left arm. It looks like a flabby dick in Vicky.

Of course the shape of the province doesn't affect gameplay at all. But if the shape of the borders/provinces doesn't matter, then why have a world map at all? If it's all the same as long as the connections between provinces and province stats are correct, like Hakkapeliitta said, we could just as well be playing on a spreadsheet system.

I don't know about you, but erroneus borders (wether the ones of the starting setup or caused by poorly designed provinces during the game) seriously affect my immersion into the game. In that aspect Vicky seems to be a major improvement over HoI, but it still has its issues.

 

[Grosshaus]

Originally posted by Exel
First of all, Finland became independent in 1917, and that happens to be within the timeframe of the game. Meaning that once the independence happens, Finland will have an ahistorical border. Secondly, I'm not talking about map projection as Grosshaus suggested. Just look at the shape of the left arm. It looks like a flabby dick in Vicky.

--------

I don't know about you, but erroneus borders (wether the ones of the starting setup or caused by poorly designed provinces during the game) seriously affect my immersion into the game. In that aspect Vicky seems to be a major improvement over HoI, but it still has its issues.

But the thickness of the arm bordering Sweden and Norway partially comes from map projection.

I don't care all that much about map accuracy, I liked EU2 provinces quite a lot while the provinces were often of wrong shape and size. If they don't affect gameplay, (like the Petsamo thing if Russia wants to attack Norway after Finland is around) I don't mind.

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Originally posted by Exel

Of course the shape of the province doesn't affect gameplay at all. But if the shape of the borders/provinces doesn't matter, then why have a world map at all? If it's all the same as long as the connections between provinces and province stats are correct, like Hakkapeliitta said, we could just as well be playing on a spreadsheet system.

OK, then we just have a different understanding on what constitutes an acceptable level of embellishment of ``the bare facts'.

I agree about the need to disguise the game information (which by it's nature is rather spreadsheetish) as a pretty map to help immersion. As long as it is easily recognizable (and looks beautiful ) it's good enough for me.

You obviously require more (even if it doesn't affect the gameplay) to be immersed.

 

[peo]

How a province border looks isn't noticable when you play, just compare to HoI or EU2.
It's not as if you go around screeming about how the border between England and Scotland looks.
It's in about the right place with about the right look.

 

[Exel]

Originally posted by peo
How a province border looks isn't noticable when you play, just compare to HoI or EU2.
It's not as if you go around screeming about how the border between England and Scotland looks.
It's in about the right place with about the right look.

Sure it is noticeable when it makes a country ill-shaped. Of course some of the effect it has on me comes from me being a Finn, I admit, but still. The Lapland part of Finland is simply absurd (the other faults even I can tolerate).

 

[unmerged(6766)]

I think that it's not really that important... Other parts of the map are a little weird shaped, but it doesn't affect gameplay.


the main point is, if you don't like the shape of your country... expand until you cover all the land you think you should own

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Being a citizen of one of the countries in question, I'll say my opinion about this, and that's that it doesn't matter to me. What matters is how it affects gameplay, ie in which provinces are connected to which and what kind of qualities a given province possesses.

I personally write "strange" borders up to the fact that cartography in this age wasn't a too-exact science, especially in remote areas, such as northern Scandinavia. Personally, I think it adds flavour with the maps being "slightly off", as long as it isn't too far off.

If this degrades your fun, Exel, my sympathies. However, if this turns out to be your biggest issue with the game, it can't be that bad

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(14180)]

Bah, this argument is still happening.....

my god, lol

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Originally posted by Sapper_Astro
Bah, this argument is still happening.....

my god, lol

Hehe, easy for you guys to say, your borders = where the water starts. Easy, peasy

Rafiki

 

[Exel]

Originally posted by Sapper_Astro
Bah, this argument is still happening.....

my god, lol

If the borders were correct, there would be no arguments about it. Simple, eh?

 

[ToMazaz]

If you think that Finland`s borders are f***** up than look at Lithuania`s borders. It should be like this !!!!

 

[Dinsdale]

Originally posted by Exel
If the borders were correct, there would be no arguments about it. Simple, eh?

No, it's not that simple.

There are complaints

1) About the projection type/distortion of distances
2) Border shapes
3) Province names
4) Province spelling
5) That name should not be in German/English/Polish it should be in German/English/Polish
6) Province ownership

Still going on for EU2. The map cannot please everyone, and it would appear to be a miracle that it pleases anyone.

 

[unmerged(14180)]

Human nature i guess.....

Most companies wouldn't care less if they totally stuffed up the accuracy......and there would be no way you could ask them to change it.

seems like having a company like paradox makes people silly and start ranting about the most pedantic things.

Most of Australia wasn't even in EU2....and everyone knows that William Dampier landed on the Western side of Australia first....but he decided it was too desolate for anything so he took off.....

He was a Dutch Privateer by the way....

There was also Dirk HartHog.....

Ever see any Aussie complain?? nooooooo.....

Lighten up a little, what will the next complaint be? The Archdukes buttons are the wrong colour??

 

[unmerged(16585)]

Originally posted by ToMazaz
If you think that Finland`s borders are f***** up than look at Lithuania`s borders. It should be like this !!!!

I recall reading that after the second world war the Soviet Union "adjusted" the borders of many countries in north-eastern europe.

 

[Icecold]

Archdukes buttons are the wrong colour??

they are..... ....I'm going to start a thread.....

 

[unmerged(3834)]

Damn right borders do matter, I don't mean the shapes or anything superficial but historical accuracy. The Petsamo area (the right 'arm') was not part of Finland until Tartu peace treaty of 1920, later it became important nickel mining area and one of the main reasons of Winter War, the Soviet attack on Finland in 1939.

Also from game point of view it is significant to have Petsamo as an independent province so there will be realistic borders between Soviet Russia,Finland and Norway in 1917-1920 with access to each other. This is not just meanless whining, it is a bug that should corrected in a future patch.

The map of Finland after Tartu peace treaty:

 

[unmerged(14393)]

"Ever see any Aussie complain?? nooooooo....."

*Lol* Then again Aussies are so much more mellow than Finns.

 

[DaPacemDomine]

Originally posted by christianx
"Ever see any Aussie complain?? nooooooo....."

*Lol* Then again Aussies are so much more mellow than Finns.

It's all that Foster's (Australian for 'Beer'!).

 

[unmerged(3834)]

Well hopefully Aussies will have their own Aboriginal GC in Crusader Kings

 

[unmerged(14393)]

Originally posted by DaPacemDomine
It's all that Foster's (Australian for 'Beer'!).

I lived in Sydney for a while (greatest city on earth!) so I sure know what Foster is... In fact the natives used to compliment me on how many Fosters I could handle in one evening.