Border changes, drawing borders and liberating colonies

[Anichent]

The biggest problems with the map, from a game-play perspective seem to be from the Balkans to Switzerland. Again my complaints aren't based on "real" states or what I'd like to do in some fantasy, but based on history; things that actually happened in the war or after the war, or things that were planned but didn't take place. The goal is always playability: making peace deals and conquests make sense.

These are the states I propose and likely the changes I'd make so far once the game came out if the states remain as we've seen them in Alpha and WWW: (in each alternative I prefer the first option)

 

[Decolonization]

The biggest problems with the map, from a game-play perspective seem to be from the Balkans to Switzerland. Again my complaints aren't based on "real" states or what I'd like to do in some fantasy, but based on history; things that actually happened in the war or after the war, or things that were planned but didn't take place. The goal is always playability: making peace deals and conquests make sense.

These are the states I propose and likely the changes I'd make so far once the game came out if the states remain as we've seen them in Alpha and WWW: (in each alternative I prefer the first option)

There's probably a lot of other locations on the map where States will need to be fixed as well :/

 

[Anichent]

Absolutely. Just off the top of my head I can think of a number of states this game needs to include, I just don't know if they are or not: French Basque Country, Basque Country, Galicia, Northern Portugal (aka. Porto, aka. original Portugal aka. Galician Portugal), Estremadura, all of the provinces from the Treaty of Sevres (Ionia, Thrace, Istanbul/Bosphorus, etc.), Aromania (aka. Pontus), Nice..... too many that may have been ignored in an oversimplified map but which history and plausibility require. (leaving out Istria as separately conquerable from Venice should make any Croatian or Austrian fans out there scream in agony).

We'll have to see. But depending on what the final states map looks like, the map may require serious overhaul to meets its full potential.

 

[FOARP]

Yeah, the states and the map will almost certainly be editable, and no doubt will be improved on. Remember the HOI3 vanilla map? It didn't even have the proper national borders (India had a border with the USSR, for example), let alone province borders and city names.

 

[LordOfWar16]

The biggest of problems is cutting the possibility of transferring individual provinces, when nobody asked for it. It's another case of fixing what isn't wrong.


And then, when it doesn't change, we're greeted with "now it's too late to do anything about it", or even worse, "buy the DLC".

Its easiely modable in HoI III and most likely will be in HoI IV aswell. Other than that, they release free updates for their games all the time. Its not like that it is hard for them to add/swap states around during the balancing of the beta. They may cant make fundamental changes to core features like the supply system or the production line system without delaying the game anymore, but could easiely edit states even a couple of weeks prior to the deadline for balancing reasons.

Yeah, the states and the map will almost certainly be editable, and no doubt will be improved on. Remember the HOI3 vanilla map? It didn't even have the proper national borders (India had a border with the USSR, for example), let alone province borders and city names.

dont forget that by default most of the regions werent claimable. You had to make one simple tweak in the regions.txt to enable them being capturable.

 

[Decolonization]

Absolutely. Just off the top of my head I can think of a number of states this game needs to include, I just don't know if they are or not: French Basque Country, Basque Country, Galicia, Northern Portugal (aka. Porto, aka. original Portugal aka. Galician Portugal), Estremadura, all of the provinces from the Treaty of Sevres (Ionia, Thrace, Istanbul/Bosphorus, etc.), Aromania (aka. Pontus), Nice..... too many that may have been ignored in an oversimplified map but which history and plausibility require. (leaving out Istria as separately conquerable from Venice should make any Croatian or Austrian fans out there scream in agony).

We'll have to see. But depending on what the final states map looks like, the map may require serious overhaul to meets its full potential.

You've only mentionned Europe so far, but Africa, Middle East and Asia will probably also have bad state borders...

 

[Anichent]

I may have been premature with my earlier image posts.

After browsing the existing videos and screenshots so far, it appears to me that we have a pretty complete map of the states of Europe and so here is my map
Brown = Existing States as we have seen so far
Green = States that need to be added for playability
ie. East Prussia needs 2 states, Switzerland needs 3, Slovenia needs 2, Szeklerland,
Blue = States whose borders I changed to be more accurate or effective or for gameplay reasons
ie. changing Estonia, ensuring East/West Germany can have proper borders, making both Occitania and Vichy France have possible borders, changing Turkish states to match the Treaty of Sevres, fixing the disastrous mess that is Yugoslavia
Red = States that aren't necessary but would enhance the flavour of the game.
ie. French Basque Country, Isle of Man, Bulgarian Macedonia, an Aromanian State in Albania/Greece, Lusatia

Why these changes?
1) to ensure pre-war, post-war, post-USSR, and pre-1936 borders could be possible.
2) to ensure states that had active independence movements at the time have states with the proper borders
3) to ensure states that were actually created during ww2 have states with the right borders
4) to ensure states that were conceived of but never created during ww2 have states with the right borders
5) to ensure that places we can reasonably expect many players will want to conquer exist without making the map look ugly.

Of note/may require specific justification:
a) the Lithuanian-Belarussian border state: done because Lithuania could have 3 possible borders, all of which fall with that state and so picking the two extremes is the only thing that makes sense
b) Vichy: I would add a small state in the middle of France because including it with the south creates Vichy France, but leaving it out creates Occitania. This way both options exist (for Occitan independence mod or an Italian or Spanish player who want to conquer Occitania without going beyond into non-Occitan Vichy France)

I would love thoughts and/or opinions of what should be changed. I doubt the devs will notice this post (would love if they did) but either way pending further changes to the HOI4 map this is roughly the European state map I'd make. I'd also like to give a lot of credit to the devs because looking at this map a lot of Europe is very well done.

edit: changed some of Romania following suggestions.
edit: changed Warsaw and added a red state in Poland.

 

[Sabotage13]

I pretty much agree with everything you said in this thread, Anichent, but I fear that the map is going to be a low priority element for Paradox.

Best we can hope for is either mods, or a couple of DLCs 1-2 years down the line.

 

[CocoBZ]

snip

Took the time to toy around with the E3 map in regards to Romania.

• the state borders now follow historical patterns instead of the modern boundaries in the map you used
• split Muntenia and Oltenia (which from what I remember is already a thing in the game)
• new green: Transnistria as it was under Romania's control during the war
• red: South Bucovina, if anyone has Habsburg ambitions

 

[Anichent]

• split Muntenia and Oltenia (which from what I remember is already a thing in the game)
• new green: Transnistria as it was under Romania's control during the war

I must have missed the Muntenia and Oltenia split in the screenshots, but it makes sense. Fixed that on my map.
The larger Transnistria state makes sense, even if it shrinks a Ukrainian state. It wouldn't change a post-Soviet Ukraine map in the event Romania joins the allies say, while also still giving Romania its war goals if they join the axis. A win-win.

 

[Decolonization]

I must have missed the Muntenia and Oltenia split in the screenshots, but it makes sense. Fixed that on my map.
The larger Transnistria state makes sense, even if it shrinks a Ukrainian state. It wouldn't change a post-Soviet Ukraine map in the event Romania joins the allies say, while also still giving Romania its war goals if they join the axis. A win-win.

What software do you use to create these maps?

 

[Anichent]

I don't use anything special. PhotoFiltre, Paint, Photoshop - any of these could do it. If you look closely you will see states have different colour borders sometimes. Red means its a modern country border, green means its either a modern state border or I drew it from scratch, and blue means its just a river.

My map was made the exact same way CocoBz's map was made I suspect, just using a different base and then adding some things myself where necessary. Most states are almost exact (more exact than needed for this game), some are rough approximations, and some fall in between.

You've only mentionned Europe so far, but Africa, Middle East and Asia will probably also have bad state borders...

For sure. I'd love to do beyond just Europe but we don't have enough screenshots/videos of the rest of the states in the world to make the map. Even then my knowledge would likely limit my contribution to the middle east, north africa, russia, and china and even then they wouldn't be as good as my Europe changes. I would need help if I were to mod a map for the whole world - I can only do what I know.

I pretty much agree with everything you said in this thread, Anichent, but I fear that the map is going to be a low priority element for Paradox

Thanks, that is my fear as well although who knows. If necessary I'll just work on my own map mod with whoever would like to help called "New World Order" or something. I'd want to do it quickly so other modders could take it and use it in theirs if they like it


On another note, after more thought about Poland I'm adding one more red state (a German annexed rather than occupied region in history and which Lithuania also had claims to at the time) and changing the border of Warsaw, moving its border from the modern eastern border to the river, to better match the border of the Polish General Government and possible post-Axis victory Polish 'state.'

The below map should also show the importance/rationale of my suggested general changes, since they would account for modern/Soviet Poland, 1939 Poland, Axis-victory Poland, Polish Silesia, Polish Belarus, Polish Ukraine, Polish Lithuania, etc.

 

[Decolonization]

I don't use anything special. PhotoFiltre, Paint, Photoshop - any of these could do it. If you look closely you will see states have different colour borders sometimes. Red means its a modern country border, green means its either a modern state border or I drew it from scratch, and blue means its just a river.

My map was made the exact same way CocoBz's map was made I suspect, just using a different base and then adding some things myself where necessary. Most states are almost exact (more exact than needed for this game), some are rough approximations, and some fall in between.


For sure. I'd love to do beyond just Europe but we don't have enough screenshots/videos of the rest of the states in the world to make the map. Even then my knowledge would likely limit my contribution to the middle east, north africa, russia, and china and even then they wouldn't be as good as my Europe changes. I would need help if I were to mod a map for the whole world - I can only do what I know.


Thanks, that is my fear as well although who knows. If necessary I'll just work on my own map mod with whoever would like to help called "New World Order" or something. I'd want to do it quickly so other modders could take it and use it in theirs if they like it


On another note, after more thought about Poland I'm adding one more red state (a German annexed rather than occupied region in history and which Lithuania also had claims to at the time) and changing the border of Warsaw, moving its border from the modern eastern border to the river, to better match the border of the Polish General Government and possible post-Axis victory Polish 'state.'

The below map should also show the importance/rationale of my suggested general changes, since they would account for modern/Soviet Poland, 1939 Poland, Axis-victory Poland, Polish Silesia, Polish Belarus, Polish Ukraine, Polish Lithuania, etc.

I'd be happy to help you to make the maps for non-European states

 

[Anichent]

I did a few more map tests of things like Axis powers start territory, gains, losses, goals, etc. just to test and It lead me to make some more changes to Yugoslavian provinces. Specifically Kosovo and Montenegro need to be split in two, similar to but still not the same as the existing Paradox map. Everything else works great so far.

I'll share because, hey why not