Sweden is just overpowered, and Denmark and Sweden should be historical rivals, they are the most historical rivals of all time.
Boost the Danes
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Regardless of what Swedish history says, Sweden was never much of a power either, just a regional one, and Denmark was still just as much a power as Sweden, just not on land in the region, but internationally through a powerful navy. Denmark managed a small colonial empire that Sweden never did. Still both were never really that powerful, and was mostly left to survive because they were either not worth conquering or because none of the great powers wanted another real power controlling the Sound.
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I agree with almost everything you said. Sweden declares independance to early in the game. But mostly losses cause Sweden can ally poland/England and all of noethern europe. But Gustav Vasa did kick you'll out of Sweden and we didn't lose the war. Kristian Tyrann was dethroned by the danish nobility and that basically ended the fightingNo it wasn´t a real power during the period in the way that Sweden bacame, but was a real power in decline in the beginning. Needless to say, they should have the ability to become the real power, since circumstances leading up to Swedish independence could very well have been different but likely to happen due to them disapproving both being ruled by Denmark (trying to become the ruler themselves) and that the "forced" relations to Hansa meant their trading of their iron was made more difficult along with the danish taxes imposed on them.
Also, considering the Union was able to elect a King from Oldenburg, Pommerania and Bavaria they had some influence that mattered.
A little light reading, which sums of the events well to what I learned as a bred and borned dane ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union
The union collapse is really just poorly portrayed currently, since the mechanics are lacking and using the ones that exist only helps making it less historical. In reality the only participants in the war was Sweden and Lübeck against Kalmar, while french, german and scottish mercenaries were used in 1520 due to Denmark loosing a string of battles, this was also not due to active alliances but hiring outsiders to fight the war.
In short, the Union was created due to the need to counter Hansa and the rare event of inheritances that occured shortly after, this was however prior to the period. What´s interesting is that in 1448, Sweden elected a king due to the death of the current union king and an "outsider" was elected. This however wasn´t to gain independence, but actually reestablish the union under swedish rule, this was followed by a string of struggles over the next 70 years, to which ended in Sweden surrendering in 1523, but was not forced into the union as a term of the peace. Which led to them becoming independent.
Norway was "annexed" in 1536 but by then the union had already collapsed. What´s most important, this was looked at as a rebellion and not as an independent nation vying for freedom, also since this was never the goal to begin with. The union was a reality when "war" broke out and was the purpose. So currently it´s simply not very well handled in-game.
Might be better to have it trigger as a disaster instead, or implemet a few new mechanics to better represent this special-case, like Sweden choosing to have their own king but still be de facto in a union could in game-terms simply make them vassals with a special CB. But since negotiations, restrictions and rights cannot be negotiated in-game, this can not be truly portrayed. However, it saddens me, that Sweden will go for independence so soon.
Should really be a string of internal struggles between the members of who holds power, and could see it as a cool new feature that a PU would have the risk of turning the table due to court intrigue during succession and having small "wars" breaking up that doesn´t allow for allies to be called. This would also improve the vassal interactions and the use of vassals, when you are at risk of having a small-sized war with your vassals due to a dispute over land, like when you hold one of their cores, which could have a number of outcomes like gaining the core, gaining more rights (like lower taxes, electing own ruler, declaring war of their own, right to marry) to flatout independence if overly succesful.
This struggles could be used to test the strength against your overlord, give you something to do as a vassal, and prepare you for the full war with your overlords vassals. Doesn´t always make sense that ALL struggles in these relations would grant the ability to call in allies, since most were only disputes viewed upon internationally as a rebellion.
Since this game also portrays both what could be and what happened historically, giving out ideas based on historical reasons that could have changed if, like in this case the union never split. I wouldn´t say Denmark should be buffed, the ideas seen fine and complement how Denmark were and focused on during the period. But they could portray the conflict better and represent history a bit better. After all, we talk a conflict that started 4 years after game-start, not in 1750 where MANY variables could go change what lead up to this.
Yes Denmark is fairly weak currently, splitting provinces could be a solution but I for one wouldn´t recommend it. There is little reason for Denmark to being split further, since it reflect well how Denmark was build up, they could however be a bit stronger, but that could be done by development. The real issue is that the war is off, as argued above, and that Denmark wasn´t that weak as currently, being swallowed by both sweden and Hansa. In fact it took 70 years of warfare where Denmark won in reality, yet the independence was still reclaimed. But fighting/struggling for such a long period while still holding of Hansa doesn´t really show in-game right now
The ideas are good and reflect Denmark well, I actually think many of them are quite powerful and useful for Denmark, some you count as being ridicolously underpowered. However, since PDX already stated that they will look into Denmark and try to fix this in the next patch, I would hold off complaining until we see what they have done to this before suggesting major overhaul
Exactly. Sweden needs to ahistorically annex Denmark in order to have half the power needed to do anything.
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We really should get some kind of garbage collector utility that would sweep all of the defunct threads that were answered long ago and are just devolving into spirals of OT.
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They managed to have a unsuccesful, unprofitable SMALL colonial... Well, wouldn´t call it an empire since it was basically a few worthless colonies
I agree with almost everything you said. Sweden declares independance to early in the game. But mostly losses cause Sweden can ally poland/England and all of noethern europe. But Gustav Vasa did kick you'll out of Sweden and we didn't lose the war. Kristian Tyrann was dethroned by the danish nobility and that basically ended the fighting
History states they surrendered ;-) but they still remained independent, perhaps due to the fact that they de facto had been for 70 years where they had ruled by themselves
Personally I see it more as an agreement towards status quo, since both sides had victories and none of them were proberly able to enforce their demands, at least if Sweden was still trying to take over the union. If it was Independence, then they de facto won 
Portugal's Alentejo could definitely be split in half, it's just too big compared to Portugal's other continental provinces.
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They weren't in the beginning, though. It was after the slaughter of Stockholm that it really went down.
I guess, Sjaeland could use some splitting into two, but otherwise it's provinces are alright.
Unless you want to split Bornholm.
Unless you want to split Bornholm.
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They had actually been fighting for a long time! Just look at the Arn movies!
Okey dokey, but those ideas are really poor. Especially for a European power and as much as I hate Europeans getting better ideas 'because reasons', Denmark gets shafted not just for a European but in general.
10% manpower recovery speed which the OP considers meh, is the only remotely okish thing in there. The rest are utter garbage relatively. -1 unrest is useful but not all that great and a lot get -1, a few nations get -2, Ireland and Manchu/Qing being two. The rest are comically bad.
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AFAIK it wasn't even a regional power after the end of the Kalmar Union and became practically meaningless during the 30 YW, the only reason Denmark didn't get swallowed whole is because the Dutch intervened. Yet, that doesn't really matter. Countries like the TO, LO, Novgorod, Genoa, Provence hell even Ireland all went into oblivion but they all have way better ideas.
I don't mind Denmark disappearing almost every game, that's how the game works. Big eats small. They just shouldn't go down that fast and at least be able to hold their own on sea. A morale bonus to their army would also help, they are Vikings after all
However, my guess is their biggest problem isn't the historical rival modifier or their bad NIs. I rather think that they have the same problem as BBurg (who has arguably grade A ideas) and that's their really bad diplomatic setup. Due to their medium size, same as BB, they can be rivaled by much bigger and more powerful nations (Sweden, Poland, Bohemia, Muscovy) and get dogpiled by their smaller neighbors once the big boys take a bite out of them. Also, their only way to expand and earn prestige is either into HRE or naval landing, both things the AI doesn't really shine at.
As a human, you can easily mitigate this by getting smart allies and going over your dip limit in Denmark's case, the AI isn't able to do that however.
Denmark was the regional power of the North before Sweden, not so good, not so bad. Sadly is very difficult see the union with Norway when the one with Sweden end, maybe some kind of thing to make it happen can be useful, like a decision for denmark to annex norway is sweden is out the union, like happened, I want to see more this combo against sweden, instead sweden eat norway very quick, and Denmark is eaten by Pomerania+Hansa+Sweden.
I agree, I have rarely seen Denmark do well. Glad to hear from Wiz they are being buffed as it's a cakewalk to get Danish accepted culture and eat them in a few bites.
And then you skip the first 70 years of fighting that either side couldn´t win enough to enforce their demands
Would say, holding out for 70 years is not considered underowered which I guess my swedish neighbour can agree upon Denmark does annex Norway in-game, actually does so too fast, however this doesn´t happen in-game curretly due to Denmark and Norway get´s eaten.
EDIT: actually when thinking about it, another solution would be to implement my changes to CB, that way it´s way more costly to take provinces with an independence CB. Which would limit the amount of provinces taken initially
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I'd say, that their fleet which arguably was the best thing fielded by the Danes is incredibly weak, especially when combined with their poor heartlands. Venice as an example has an incredibly rich upland, which provides for much of their fleet. That combined with an end note means they can create loads of galleys and trade ships to bolster their naval supremacy. Denmark, on the other hand, is not nearly as lucky and often loses naval battles too. The 5% durability is not the same as discipline. It's like covering the boat in leafs and claiming that it will now take much more of a beating. Say that a ship has 100 health, 5% adds +5 health.. it's basically nothing. It's a fact that their tradition (15% light ship combat) is pathetically weak most because the trade ships doesn't quite excel at battles any way.
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Denmark isn't even that weak in 1.13. I like the boost to them in 1.14, but they're better than they were. I think it's just how allies work out now that Denmark can get powerful ones while Sweden can't.
Province for province, Denmark will bash the bejeesus out of most nations at sea. 50% naval FL coupled with ship durability, tradition, and less cost and how this stacks with stuff like maritime, exploration, and naval would make them one of the better nations in the world at holding naval dominance if they get enough coastal provinces.
The problem with that is that naval as an influencing factor in this game is small relative to history, and the fort changes actually nerfed the utility of naval back-drops.
Denmark's NI set would be fine in an environment where true naval dominance is more meaningful, in contrast with something like the Naples NI set which would STILL be trash tier.
You're crazy. Since naval combat doesn't have width, the 50% FL trumps any single naval idea without exception. Naval tradition is as useful for navies as Army tradition is for armies. Ship durability IS analogous to discipline. It provides half impact since its defensive only, but, that half impact applies to a formula that's built around ship damage as paramount, because navies almost always sink before they surrender. So, durability IS a crucial element to fleets, and X% durability is more or less X% better navies. This means Denmark's 150% sized navy is then 5% better on top of that, plus tradition and some CA. The light ship CA is weak, sure, but its not a zero number, and unlike say transports you DO end up accidentally or in an emergency putting light ships into combat. You also, typically, have a ton of them.
Denmark has one of the strongest naval sets in the game, arguably the strongest naval ideas against surprise attacks, plus a combined 3 less unrest in TF provinces. Really not a bad set of ideas at all, just... they're naval, and all naval ideas are inherently going to be considered bad. Sweden's ideas are frankly not even that good, except they're land mil ideas which > naval, and they get numerous great events added to them, while Denmark's showering of good events are mostly advisors and some free monarch points.
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Denmark's ideas would be terrific if they had a better way of keeping the continent out of Jutland. Denmark's NIs + escape to British Isles = trolliest naval nation ever.
