Boost the Danes

[nephilim2k]

I mostly play rotw, and I still say Wallachia is super hard. Dracula's revenge gave me the most trouble ever. I don't include campaigns like the three mountains in my scale, since thats more for exploit hunting than actual gameplay.

I really don't figure the tech maluses in my difficulty rating. As long as you can keep up with your neighbors, it doesn't matter at all.

Really? A good general and alliance with Austria and you can smash Hungary very quickly for quick territory and a tentacle to danzig for free westernisation.

After that it is a case of defending against the ottomans and you'll be fine, especially as Poland love you to start.

Then when you've beaten the ottomans enough and gotten some turf from them, you can move around and smack venice, get ragusa, Albania and dalmatia. Release Albania as a vassal and feed ragusa and dalmatia. Then go to town getting the rest of the turf you need for transylvania.

Takes maybe 50 years or so.

 

[yerm]

There is a slight problem with the representation of Sound Toll, which also serves to weaken Denmark somewhat.


The Sound Toll was a flat cash income. Essentially, it did nothing to increase the influence of Danish commerce abroad, but it provided a solid source of income for the Danish kings. So, the most accurate way of representing it would be as triggered modifier for anyone holding both Skåne and Sjælland, giving a yearly income of, say, 12 gold.

It was a toll on trade. The more trade goes through, the more it earns. A flat volume amount wouldn't really work, especially one that's absurdly good early on like 12 gold. If you want to go this route, it should give a flat % of the trade value of the node. I think it's really fine as is though.

I still think they should get stronger ideas somewhere. I mean, look at their ideas.

+1 yearly naval tradition. ... Wooo?
-1 Unrest. Well considering Denmark never really moves out past Denmark-Norway...
+2tolerance of the true faith, 10% church power. Once again, doesn't really help.

I think if you combined old naval traditions to be +1 yearly naval tradition +5% ship durability you could give them a new tradition that might help them stay alive longer. Maybe even something non-military related like 10% trade efficiency.

Their ideas are really good. What those ideas boost is not. Their naval ideas are among the best, if not still THE best, in the game for navies. 5% durability and 50% FL is absolutely nothing to scoff at. Tradition is a great bonus. 15% light ship CA is a bit lost due to being on light ships, but, in a really pressed fight and especially against jerks in multiplayer this is a serious power swing. The problem is simply how bad naval ideas are in general. If you swung those ideas around to make them sorta analogous, 50% land forcelimit and 5% discipline and +1 army tradition would look amazing, yes? That's before trying to translate light ship CA to a land analogy.

The -1 unrest +2 ttf is awesome. Not sure why it's scoffed at. Because Denmark sucks right now and can't expand well, ideas that help a successful nation are wasted? Would Millets be bad on them too? Nonsense.

Want to fix Danish ideas? Make naval ideas actually matter. Done. Denmark has awesome ideas now.

 

[hashinshin]

Well Denmark's events are legit just a straight 400 years of getting buffed, but it's still incredibly difficult to live that long.

 

[Sunspawn]

Really? A good general and alliance with Austria and you can smash Hungary very quickly for quick territory and a tentacle to danzig for free westernisation.

After that it is a case of defending against the ottomans and you'll be fine, especially as Poland love you to start.

Then when you've beaten the ottomans enough and gotten some turf from them, you can move around and smack venice, get ragusa, Albania and dalmatia. Release Albania as a vassal and feed ragusa and dalmatia. Then go to town getting the rest of the turf you need for transylvania.

Takes maybe 50 years or so.

With Austria being a historical friend of Hungary, I fail to see how you can move beyond the first line of your post, so I ignored it. Noob.

 

[pharaomatic]

If the 1444-era King of Denmark (Christopher III I think) is still ruling when you vassalize the country, you get the 'Restore Union' CB on Sweden. Lure all of Sweden's troops into Sjaelland, block the straits, and occupy Sweden proper at your leisure. Holstein and Norway go independent (and unlike Denmark, you actually need 2 wars to vassalize Norway).

The blocking of the straits strategy is actually a lot harder to pull of now, since the Swedes usually get supported by Teutonic Order in their independence war and their combined fleets tend to be more than a match for the Danish. Especially considering that the Norwegian naval-ai seems to be run by kamikaze captains.

There is a slight problem with the representation of Sound Toll, which also serves to weaken Denmark somewhat.


The Sound Toll was a flat cash income. Essentially, it did nothing to increase the influence of Danish commerce abroad, but it provided a solid source of income for the Danish kings. So, the most accurate way of representing it would be as triggered modifier for anyone holding both Skåne and Sjælland, giving a yearly income of, say, 12 gold.

Really agree that the sound toll is represented badly ingame. Irl it provided more than 30 percent of the royal income iirc. It was also important politically, since it made the Dutch side with the Swedes in the Torstenssons War. Could be a nice choice for a Danish special mechanic. Raise the toll, get more money, anger your neighbours fx.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

Please, provinces are useless outside of letting you make more buildings and changing the local military strategic situation.

If Denmark needs to be more powerful, just give her more development, which doesn't slow down the rest of the game.

 

[grommile]

If Denmark needs to be more powerful, just give her more development, which doesn't slow down the rest of the game.

Wiz agrees with you He's already told us in this very thread what is being done in 1.14 that will help Denmark, which is: no historical rivalry, and more development.

 

[Sard]

It was a toll on trade. The more trade goes through, the more it earns. A flat volume amount wouldn't really work, especially one that's absurdly good early on like 12 gold. If you want to go this route, it should give a flat % of the trade value of the node. I think it's really fine as is though..

Yes, ideally it should be an income based on the value of trade going through the Sound. Though, if that is not possible a flat income boost of any kind would be a more accuraterepresentation than an increase in trade power. And more immediately useful I should think.

 

[ELPhantomII]

Denmark somehow formed Scandinavia and recovered northern Sweden from Russia in my current Qing game. Variance, but still.

 

[afb]

So for 1.14:
-No Swedish cores in Skåne, Halland and Blekinge. (iirc from a previous thread)
-No historical rivalry at game start.
-More Danish development.
-The Hansa broken up.

This is significant and I am really interested to see how it turns out. Even if there are mechanics for adding the rivalry along the way to break up the union, Denmark will have had time to consolidate their power base by conquering in the Baltics and Northen Germany as well as possibly integrating Norway. Along with the added development to Denmark proper, this will make them a much tougher foe for Sweden.

 

[Druplesnubb]

I really wish they hadn't removed Denmark's historical rivalry with Sweden. Having a historical rivalry with Sweden and a historical friendship with Norway really helps bringa cross the internal dynamics of the Kalmar Union, with a Danified Norwegian nobility and a dissatisfied Swedish nobility. Why not just nerf Sweden some more instead? I'm pretty sure they're still OP.

 

[Sunspawn]

I really wish they hadn't removed Denmark's historical rivalry with Sweden. Having a historical rivalry with Sweden and a historical friendship with Norway really helps bringa cross the internal dynamics of the Kalmar Union, with a Danified Norwegian nobility and a dissatisfied Swedish nobility. Why not just nerf Sweden some more instead? I'm pretty sure they're still OP.

Because historical rivals means that every rival of Denmark gets to pile in on it and wreck it easy. It's ahistorical and causes Denmark to either cease existing or be exiled to bornholm within 30 years of game time.

 

[FleetingRain]

With Austria being a historical friend of Hungary, I fail to see how you can move beyond the first line of your post, so I ignored it. Noob.

have you seriously called someone a "noob" in 2015

 

[hashinshin]

I really wish they hadn't removed Denmark's historical rivalry with Sweden. Having a historical rivalry with Sweden and a historical friendship with Norway really helps bringa cross the internal dynamics of the Kalmar Union, with a Danified Norwegian nobility and a dissatisfied Swedish nobility. Why not just nerf Sweden some more instead? I'm pretty sure they're still OP.

All of scandinavia is undebatable too weak right now. All of them fail to achieve close to what they did historically. At BEST Sweden sometimes picks up the carcass of a stupid muscovy. They never EVER manage to push in to the HER or fight the commonwealth.

 

[HansBaer]

All of scandinavia is undebatable too weak right now. All of them fail to achieve close to what they did historically. At BEST Sweden sometimes picks up the carcass of a stupid muscovy. They never EVER manage to push in to the HER or fight the commonwealth.

Say what?

I've seen this and bigger. I've also seen Sweden in the HRE countless times. If there is a weak emperor, it happens, just like in history.
Also, Sweden sometimes is the reason Muscovy is a carcass.

You makeone good point come to think of it, without the Danish provinces Sweden is too weak to amount to more than a Scandinavian power.

 

[captain zulu]

Say what?
I've seen this and bigger.

metoo, but he is right on commonwealth .. lithuania have a laughable amount of development

+5% Ship Durability is far superior to +20% Naval Morale.

is this a joke or something?

 

[kakatua]

Ship Durability is not a naval counterpart of Discipline.
Discipline improves BOTH damage output and input. Ship Durability, as the name says, only the input.
"These modifiers increase the amount of health of any type of ship:" http://www.eu4wiki.com/Naval_units#Durability

If Venice has +50% CA to Galleys, Italy has +20% CA to Galleys, Denmark could easily has +30~50% CA to Light Ships(maybe only in inland sea to defend the strait)

 

[Vaximillian]

They never EVER manage to <..> fight the commonwealth.

No AI ever manages to fight the Commonwealth. Lithuanian dev OP, plz nerf.

 

[rbl0010]

Removing historical rivals is sad, but if it fixes the problem (along with increased development) then I'm fine with it.

 

[Vaximillian]

Removing historical rivals is sad, but if it fixes the problem (along with increased development) then I'm fine with it.

They're removing historical rivals status at start. It will be added later in-game via an event.

is this a joke or something?

Ships don't usually rout in the game, they sink before their morale does.