Boost the Danes

[Sunspawn]

IMO, Denmark could use a slight re-ordering of it's NIs and maybe changing one or two to something more suitable. The set is not bad per se, it's simply positioned in a start that makes it nigh-impossible for AI to survive.

Hopefully the new changes to Sweden (no starting historical rivalry with Denmark) will make it easier for AI to survive as Denmark - at least long enough to integrate Norway before the Constitution event fires and Sweden turns hostile.

 

[CrabHelmet]

Something also needs to be done so that Scotland stops supporting Sweden's independence. It happens in 100% of games and is deeply irritating.

 

[Sunspawn]

Who else does Scotland have to rival? The fault is not with Denmark's position, but with the rival selection calculations.

 

[profxyz]

What? How in the world would that let you PU Sweden?

If the 1444-era King of Denmark (Christopher III I think) is still ruling when you vassalize the country, you get the 'Restore Union' CB on Sweden. Lure all of Sweden's troops into Sjaelland, block the straits, and occupy Sweden proper at your leisure. Holstein and Norway go independent (and unlike Denmark, you actually need 2 wars to vassalize Norway).

 

[Sunspawn]

IIRC, you cannot use your vassal's PU CBs.

 

[grommile]

IIRC, you cannot use your vassal's PU CBs.

If this is so, then it is an unmarked property of the Restoration of Union CB. There is no valid_for_subject = no line in cb_restore_personal_union.

 

[Viking]

Ideas and traditions Traditions:
+1 Yearly legitimacy
+5% Ship durability]]] These traditions are pathetic, who would ever think that this would be any good?

The Legitimacy is rather weak, but Durability is Ship Discipline. It's good.

Vornedskab

+10% Manpower recovery speed]]] - This is very weak, 10% is advicer level.

I agree, not the strongest one there is, but 10% manpower regain is actually quite good.

Old Naval Traditions

+1 Yearly navy tradition]]] One of the few good Danish ideas.

This one is really good. Winning that naval battle in the straits with force limits, durability, ship combat and superior admirals is what survival is all about

Found the Rentekammer

+10% National tax modifier]] Also rather "meh". Perhaps make it trade related instead? Denmark had long wars with other trade nations such as the Hansa.

This one is middle of the road.

Reorganize the Klaedekammer

−10% Naval maintenance modifier]]] Venice and Genoa has -20% though. Not saying it should be the same, but this is weak.

Useful, not super good.

Found the Copenhagen Dockyard

+50% Naval force limit modifier]]] Had Denmark ever been able to field such a navy, then yes, it would have been good.

This one is ossum, no doubt about it this one is ossum, since almost all danish provinces are coastal

Den Danske Lov

−1 National unrest ]] it's accetable.

Good to have and will avoid rebels during most times apart from the worst

Religious Freedom is Atheism

+2 Tolerance of the true faith
+10% Church power ]] This is also good.

with den danske lov this gives a base -3 unrest. You need quite a bit of unrest to provoke a revolt in denmark.

Ambitions:

+15% Light ship combat ability ]] 15 % to light ship combat?

Light ship combat is pretty damn good when your fleet is mostly trading in peacetime. Your enemies will be galley based (if swedish) or heavy based (if dutch or english).

I mean.. really.. Yeah, Denmark were good with their gunboat war etc, but mere 15% remember, that other nations such as England, Spain, Genoa, Neatherlands and Venice has much better ideas than this. And that goes for almost all of Denmarks navy related ideas. Denmark repeatedly bested the Swedish navy. The Danish had one of the strongest navies at the time (up until the bombardment of Copenhagen)

Denmark's issues are geographic. It has no hope of beating a swedish army unless it is twice as large and it's naval rivals are all angling for their islands. It's actually pretty hard to keep the strait uncrossable. If crossed once (as happened in history) they are dead.

Sweden is just too OP for denmark to cope so in MP they just need to give up on it and make a deal and in SP AI denmark can't keep the straits closed.

Norway could do with being more impenetrble by land and the whole system around the Sund, Kattegat and Skagerrak needs to be done right. Denmark has problems but not because of it's ideas.I it's rather the ideas of it's enemies and the inability of hte ai to cope with denmark's geography.

 

[Sunspawn]

If this is so, then it is an unmarked property of the Restoration of Union CB. There is no valid_for_subject = no line in cb_restore_personal_union.

Hmmmm, gonna give it a try once I get home. But unless the vassal gets the PU, it sounds like a case of the e-word to me.

 

[FloatingOrb]

I think Denmark is a medium difficulty start (ranging from super easy=castile to super hard=Walachia). Thier ideas are perfectly serviceable, pushed over the edge by the naval forcelimit. No naval forcelimit buff goes over 50% that I know of, meaning that if you form super denmark you have THE navy (idea wise). THey are in an ideal position to confirm a thalacrosy, and can colonize fairly easily.

That said, thier biggest problem is sweden. Not only is it basically a nurse shark on your tiny, homemade fishing rod, but its one thats going to take your right arm with it when it escapes. If they are removing the historical rival malus, then denmark may rise again.

 

[Wizzington]

Denmark got a substantial boost in 1.14. More development and no historical rival with Sweden.

 

[Sunspawn]

I think Denmark is a medium difficulty start (ranging from super easy=castile to super hard=Walachia). Thier ideas are perfectly serviceable, pushed over the edge by the naval forcelimit. No naval forcelimit buff goes over 50% that I know of, meaning that if you form super denmark you have THE navy (idea wise). THey are in an ideal position to confirm a thalacrosy, and can colonize fairly easily.

That said, thier biggest problem is sweden. Not only is it basically a nurse shark on your tiny, homemade fishing rod, but its one thats going to take your right arm with it when it escapes. If they are removing the historical rival malus, then denmark may rise again.

The topic aside, calling Wallachia a super-hard start is... don't let the rotw-experts hear you say that.

Denmark got a substantial boost in 1.14. More development and no historical rival with Sweden.

Well, my first Cossacks game is decided then.

 

[pharaomatic]

My main issue with Denmark (or Denmark-Norway) is that until the 30 years war, where Sweden took it's place, it was the major power of Scandinavia, reflected by that it was chosen by the English and the Dutch to be the champion of the protestant cause in the 30 years war. And this was in the 1600s not the 1400s.

At the moment there's a no contest Swedish win in the struggle for the Baltic and it happens within the first 50 years of the game 5 out of 6 times. Early patches had a better balance.

I don't think that boosting Denmarks ideas will be the right solution, since it will not cause the neighbours of Sweden to stop supporting her independence. Denmarks ideas are not strong, but they're still pretty much in flavour with her role as a strong naval power historically.

And about the Kalmar Union, I'm basically pretty happy with how it's portrayed with PUs ingame atm, since the inner workings of it with Swedish noble rebellions etc. might be hard to recreate in game.

 

[FloatingOrb]

The topic aside, calling Wallachia a super-hard start is... don't let the rotw-experts hear you say that.

I mostly play rotw, and I still say Wallachia is super hard. Dracula's revenge gave me the most trouble ever. I don't include campaigns like the three mountains in my scale, since thats more for exploit hunting than actual gameplay.

I really don't figure the tech maluses in my difficulty rating. As long as you can keep up with your neighbors, it doesn't matter at all.

 

[Quaade]

yea, denmark should need and have a strong navy but 5% ship durability adds nearly nothing.. 5% .. other country's get 20% morale or combat ability and denmark gets 5% durability it is more useful to build 1 galley instead of 1 light ship as to have this tradition in most cases

ingame the swedish galleys just sink the danish fleet without a problem

In-game the swedish galleys lose in battle against Denmark-Norway alone. Just did a couple of tests a few days ago with Novgorod, and the danes were as likely to win the naval battle as we were. If against sweden alone, they crushed their navy. It was mostly when England, Scotland and Teutonic was in that the danish navy had issues.

the +1 legitimacy & -1 unrest & -2 true faith is totally useless for denmark coz atm denmark never goes big (or goes old..) with much luck they get the ösel island.. so what kind of rebels should they ever fear? peasants?!

High legitimacy adds a number of general modifiers so having it to make it stay high or get high quicker is strong. As the unrest, it helps in a war, especially prolonged to which you can allow WE to grow even more, the unrest and true faith are cumulative meaning that you can have 3 WE free before the other modifiers decides whether a revolt will start.

Given, the current state, no they have no use for it. But given their position and appearance of religions, it´s good to have.

Denmark got a substantial boost in 1.14. More development and no historical rival with Sweden.

Now you only need to create more subject interaction, especially in the way of subjects interacting with overlord ;-)

 

[cahtush]

I think one buff people are forgetting is that the Hansa has been broken up, Denmark never gets a chance to recover from losing a war with Sweden since the Hansa always attacks right after and vice versa.

 

[Grand Historian]

yea, denmark should need and have a strong navy but 5% ship durability adds nearly nothing.. 5% .. other country's get 20% morale or combat ability and denmark gets 5% durability it is more useful to build 1 galley instead of 1 light ship as to have this tradition in most cases

ingame the swedish galleys just sink the danish fleet without a problem

+5% Ship Durability is far superior to +20% Naval Morale.

 

[Searry]

Denmark could be boosted so it could compete with Sweden as it did historically. It also needs to inherit Norway if it gets to admin 10 with the PU. This could make playing in the north a bit more interesting again. Now it's just always a roflstomp with the Swedes which is of course, boring.

 

[Metz]

Denmark, Portugal, and Granada need more provinces. At least 2 for Denmark, and 1 for Portugal and Granada.

 

[Sard]

Yeah, trade could be good and reflect Denmark somewhat. But given that they have the Sound Toll that gives trade, and the fact that they by that time didn´t have the strength to enforce it and thus not focusing as much on trade, this makes sense. If they held the sound toll they would have the trade modifier and this is just an added bonus, if the don´t it reflect them focusing internally instead of on trade, at which they weren´t dominant in that period anyway.

There is a slight problem with the representation of Sound Toll, which also serves to weaken Denmark somewhat.


The Sound Toll was a flat cash income. Essentially, it did nothing to increase the influence of Danish commerce abroad, but it provided a solid source of income for the Danish kings. So, the most accurate way of representing it would be as triggered modifier for anyone holding both Skåne and Sjælland, giving a yearly income of, say, 12 gold.

 

[hashinshin]

Denmark got a substantial boost in 1.14. More development and no historical rival with Sweden.

I still think they should get stronger ideas somewhere. I mean, look at their ideas.

+1 yearly naval tradition. ... Wooo?
-1 Unrest. Well considering Denmark never really moves out past Denmark-Norway...
+2tolerance of the true faith, 10% church power. Once again, doesn't really help.

I think if you combined old naval traditions to be +1 yearly naval tradition +5% ship durability you could give them a new tradition that might help them stay alive longer. Maybe even something non-military related like 10% trade efficiency.