Myth said:
Technology development, international intrigue (id est the historical events), combat, fast(er) paced international development, advanced social engineering, espionage, trade etc etc.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- Status
Technology development, international intrigue (id est the historical events), combat, fast(er) paced international development, advanced social engineering, espionage, trade etc etc.
there's only so much preparation you can do in even one year. three is awful and when you're going on 5 you just want to destroy something.
in CK? check.
check
not as such, no. but they would also not fit the game at all, so that's a good thing really
check
faster in what sense? play an hour in DD and thing'll change a lot. play an hour in CK and things will change a lot.
not sure what you mean by this
check
unfortunately not much
Myth said:
Hmm,
The technology development in DD is much more exiting, you have to agree with me on that one.
The international intrigue is not very present. "the pope calls to arms"? Cmon!
Combat is more specific in DD, are dependent on more factors than in CK, relies on more strategy than in CK, and not by pure luck as it seems in CK at times.
Fast paced developent? I guess the time span plays into it, as you said (or someone else) the time span is bigger.
By social engineering I mean ideology, politics, etc.
Espionage in DD covers much more than killing off an odd count
Totti, stop 'spitting' on this game and go play HoI2!
If you dont like it I suggest you go swap it with a friend. If you had bothered to do some research you would have discovered that making a game during the "Dark Ages" isnt a question of simply popping in historical events!
Furthermore, Im sure this was stated way back when it first started to be marketed that it wouldnt be a simulator but a game. So I cant understand why youd not expect "gamey" events!
If you dont like it I suggest you go swap it with a friend. If you had bothered to do some research you would have discovered that making a game during the "Dark Ages" isnt a question of simply popping in historical events!
Furthermore, Im sure this was stated way back when it first started to be marketed that it wouldnt be a simulator but a game. So I cant understand why youd not expect "gamey" events!
I have to agree there.Totti said:
But what did you expect? It's not like there were "Development Teams" running around Midieval France.
In CK intrigue is actual intrigue.Totti said:
It's all personal. You're murdering your cousin so you can inherit his land. You're forcing your son to marry some chick for her father's money.
Luck has very little to do with it, unless you've just re-loaded a save-game. In CK (and HOI2, IIRC) when you reload a save-game the game engine miracoulously sets everybody's morale to zero, so combat is a coin-toss.Totti said:
Most of the time the guy with more troops wins. It's more simplified than HOI2, but that's to be expected. There's 400 years to play.
In CK you can gain piety by beating up heathans. Which allows you to become Papal Controller, which allows you to excommunicate your enemies. Which allows you to get territorial claims on their entire desmene.Totti said:
And killing off the odd Count is a more powerful form of intrigue than anything in HOI2. It can lead to full annexation, after all. Stealing blueprints is fun, but it only halves research time.
Nick
I think you, Totti, have a common newb problem as I call it.
You don't understand the game so you don't see the features and don't see what's interesting in them.
E.g. - there's actually so much possible country/province micromanagement that one doing it with Poland can beat anyone not doing it playing HRE.
Even seasoned CK players sometimes underestimate the huge potential of double demesne limit of Byzantium - that's the country where province micromanagement, used to extremes bears the most visible results, especially when coupled with proper inheritance management, proper research (yes! there's a LOT more about research in CK than in DD just because there are some 30+ factors that can influence the speed of it) and breeding.
Meanwhile province management in DD is close to zero. What actually you can do a province?
Build factory, infra, aa, naval, fort and some specials. That's it.
Can you manage citizen power levels thus changing the composition and size of your army?
No.
Here you also have your social engineering plus the country laws screen which can change a LOT more in how your country lives than 1 slider movement per year.
Are you required to manage the loyalty levels to not have your economy shrink?
No.
Can you raise income and manpower of a province by raising the loyalty levels and then raising taxes?
No.
Are you required to conquer certain provinces to provide your huge army with crucial resources?
No. This is a HUGE improvement in strategical options as most games are not played around Romania, Caucasus and Near East.
Can you convert province's religion?
No.
Can you convert province's culture (thus making it your 'national province')?
No. (events don't count)
Do you get any province-based events adding to game's flavour?
No.
Do you have to manage tech spread by proper provincial management?
No.
Can you raise provinces income by properly educating your monarch and appointing an able administrator?
No. Here CK comes waaaay ahead of Hoi as your micromanagement of characters can change your income up to several times.
And so on and so on..
In fact mentioning province micromanagement and social engineering as CK's lack is utter blindedness.
Hoi IS the game which is about countries - provinces being dumbed down to max.
Any other Paradox game has more depth in provinces and micromanagement than Hoi.
Does that ring the bell for you?
You compare DD which runs for 20 years and CK 400 years.
What were you expecting dude? To run past 400 yrs in a few hours?
And trade?
C'mon you call Hoi trade a trade?
That's a dumbed down form of barter which never historically happened that way and is plainly bugged after all (why in the hell would someone sell you huge amount of resources for a few boxes of supply when he can do those supplies himself?!?).
IMO it's better to not have something portrayed in game at all than have it portrayed in a totally inplausible way.
My advice is to drop off your RTS glasses and learn to play a different game with a different mindset.
CK just dont fit in the cathegory with Hoi, AOE, Warcraft and other 'routine' games, or games where you follow common routine to achieve victory and everything depends on how well you execute it and much less how much strategical innovativeness you posess.
You don't understand the game so you don't see the features and don't see what's interesting in them.
E.g. - there's actually so much possible country/province micromanagement that one doing it with Poland can beat anyone not doing it playing HRE.
Even seasoned CK players sometimes underestimate the huge potential of double demesne limit of Byzantium - that's the country where province micromanagement, used to extremes bears the most visible results, especially when coupled with proper inheritance management, proper research (yes! there's a LOT more about research in CK than in DD just because there are some 30+ factors that can influence the speed of it) and breeding.
Meanwhile province management in DD is close to zero. What actually you can do a province?
Build factory, infra, aa, naval, fort and some specials. That's it.
Can you manage citizen power levels thus changing the composition and size of your army?
No.
Here you also have your social engineering plus the country laws screen which can change a LOT more in how your country lives than 1 slider movement per year.
Are you required to manage the loyalty levels to not have your economy shrink?
No.
Can you raise income and manpower of a province by raising the loyalty levels and then raising taxes?
No.
Are you required to conquer certain provinces to provide your huge army with crucial resources?
No. This is a HUGE improvement in strategical options as most games are not played around Romania, Caucasus and Near East.
Can you convert province's religion?
No.
Can you convert province's culture (thus making it your 'national province')?
No. (events don't count)
Do you get any province-based events adding to game's flavour?
No.
Do you have to manage tech spread by proper provincial management?
No.
Can you raise provinces income by properly educating your monarch and appointing an able administrator?
No. Here CK comes waaaay ahead of Hoi as your micromanagement of characters can change your income up to several times.
And so on and so on..
In fact mentioning province micromanagement and social engineering as CK's lack is utter blindedness.
Hoi IS the game which is about countries - provinces being dumbed down to max.
Any other Paradox game has more depth in provinces and micromanagement than Hoi.
Troop types (with their different roles in combad and different bonuses against other troop types), troop strengths (morale, shock, attack, defense), troop tech levels, commander's martial skill.
Does that ring the bell for you?
WTF?
You compare DD which runs for 20 years and CK 400 years.
What were you expecting dude? To run past 400 yrs in a few hours?
And trade?
C'mon you call Hoi trade a trade?
That's a dumbed down form of barter which never historically happened that way and is plainly bugged after all (why in the hell would someone sell you huge amount of resources for a few boxes of supply when he can do those supplies himself?!?).
IMO it's better to not have something portrayed in game at all than have it portrayed in a totally inplausible way.
My advice is to drop off your RTS glasses and learn to play a different game with a different mindset.
CK just dont fit in the cathegory with Hoi, AOE, Warcraft and other 'routine' games, or games where you follow common routine to achieve victory and everything depends on how well you execute it and much less how much strategical innovativeness you posess.
Last edited:
Oh, I know what I'll do. I'll go into HoI 2 DD's forum and say. "This game is boring, I'm going to go back to playing CK." Talk about stirring up a hornet's nest - nice job, kid.
My gameplay experience has improved a lot since I installed the grand unified event mod (my apologies to the authors as I cannot remember them or the title).
I find that even without the military detail of HOI2, CK is a good game. I don't know about you guys, but I find it easier to get attached to randomly generated characters than Hitler or Stalin 
This is why I love NatChi so...Myth said:
...but I do also love CK; I think CK and DD are my 2 favorite Paradox games at this point.
Victor1234 said:I find that even without the military detail of HOI2, CK is a good game. I don't know about you guys, but I find it easier to get attached to randomly generated characters than Hitler or Stalin
I agree with you completely!
After all, CK is about alternative history, not who can do the best in a strictly pre-set situation.
That's one thing that always bugged me about DD - there's little alt history involved. Not surprising perhaps given that its a WWII simulator. The timeframe is simply too short to turn a minor nation into a world beater. Even in the original HoI it was possible, with the different factory construction process, to achieve something meaningful with a minor.binTravkin said:
Well, I throughly enjoy and embrace the alternative history and reasonable undeterministic approached offered by Crusader Kings. Of corse there is room for improvement (Cognatic and male preference primogeniture comes to mind). But that is what the CK Wishlist is for. If it is boring, find elements to make it more entertaining. Or bring your ideas to the wishlist and lets work progressively on it!
Totti said:
Quite the contrary. HoI sucks a lot
Their ministers are even incapable of breeding. What a backwardness! 
Why do people post these stupid threads? We're not going to stop enjoying the game, nor is anybody going to "fix" it for people who don't. It's a waste of everybody's time.
I guess I can be confident CK2 will include female inheritance, eh Drach?
:rofl:Drachenfire said:
I guess I can be confident CK2 will include female inheritance, eh Drach?
You are just so wrong
Man, you don't play this game over the span of 2 hours, more like 2 weeks (continuously! with danger of sudden gaming death syndrom).
This is one of the best game I've ever played, and I've played them all. Agreed, try playing as a count of Lubeck on Hard, or Napoli. Or if you're feeling suicidal as Capua or Wales, then come back and tell us how easy it was.
Lol, just the other day, I found out that in real life Halland, Skane and Gotland are all now part of Sweden and have been since 1600's, and I got sad that my beloved Denmark and family dynasty failed to hold on to those possessions :rofl:
That shows you how silly I am and how great this game is.
Man, you don't play this game over the span of 2 hours, more like 2 weeks (continuously! with danger of sudden gaming death syndrom).
This is one of the best game I've ever played, and I've played them all. Agreed, try playing as a count of Lubeck on Hard, or Napoli. Or if you're feeling suicidal as Capua or Wales, then come back and tell us how easy it was.
Lol, just the other day, I found out that in real life Halland, Skane and Gotland are all now part of Sweden and have been since 1600's, and I got sad that my beloved Denmark and family dynasty failed to hold on to those possessions :rofl:
That shows you how silly I am and how great this game is.
- Status