boo sapmi, boo! boo inconsistency, boo!!

[DrLulz]

Perhaps there should be an option for localized names or all-English names. That way, the people who get offended over pointless things can have their way and not force their beliefs on others.

If it's not much hassle this would be great.
Personally, I don't want to play with localized names, I want to be able to recognize and be familiar with the names that spread across the map. In particular nothing would hurt my ability to identify with the nation I'm playing more than being unable to pronounce it's name (this is a big problem when I play ckII as an Indian).

But I perfectly understand those who do want localized names, after all one of the games attractions is it's (relative) historical correctness.

 

[WiseGreen]

You're calling awareness of racism and eugenics 'whining' while in a thread complaining about the name of an alt-history nation in a computer game

Do you even realize how ironic that is?

This deserves to be hanged in a wall somewhere. Perhaps in golden letters?

 

[Lord Hugo]

Wait Lapp is considered racist? I what language and context? Because Finland has 'bout 30 percent of it's area named Lappi and everybody living there is called lappalainen. And the extensions of this area in Sweden, Norway and Russia are called (adjective) Lappi.

Lapin maakunta is indeed the current name for the region. Large majority of people living in Lappi region however are not Sami, which propably is why there is no controversy about the name. In fact, some Finns call themselves lappalainen and Lappalainen is also a common surname. Nevertheless, it is offensive to use the word lappalainen to refer to the Sami people. For many Sami it still is a derogatory exonym, thanks to recent history.

The important thing is, like ahyangyi mentioned in his post, why obstinately go and use a word which can be considered insulting when there's a quite adequate alternative? The region is largely irrelevant to most games as well as preripherally situated so I rather doubt the tag name could be unbearable distraction to anyone.

 

[Kung Zog]

Lapin maakunta is indeed the current name for the region. Large majority of people living in Lappi region however are not Sami, which propably is why there is no controversy about the name. In fact, some Finns call themselves lappalainen and Lappalainen is also a common surname. Nevertheless, it is offensive to use the word lappalainen to refer to the Sami people. For many Sami it still is a derogatory exonym.

The important thing is, like ahyangyi mentioned in his post, why obstinately go and use a word which can be considered insulting when there's a quite adequate alternative? The region is largely irrelevant to most games as well as preripherally situated so I rather doubt the tag name could be unbearable distraction to anyone.

This sums it up quite well.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I like sapmi. Lappland sounds so Germanic, and it wouldn't make as much sense for a newly independent Sami state to use the name the defeated former overlords used... Granted, Americans did appropriate Yankee, an supposedly offensive term the defeated British overlords chose to call us, but I'm not sure this is typical of revolutionaries, and it wasn't incorporated into an official name of the country.

 

[Gurluas]

Sapmi is also in Ck2, I think it's fine.

 

[TheG-Man98]

So we shouldn't respect these people's right to name their own countries once they became free of the imperialist oprossors. We don't keep calling mexico new spain so why should we keep calling a hypothetical free majority sami cultured lappland lappland?

There are so many nations wich have english instead of their native names Iran persia is just one of them

 

[TheG-Man98]

I like sapmi. Lappland sounds so Germanic, and it wouldn't make as much sense for a newly independent Sami state to use the name the defeated former overlords used... Granted, Americans did appropriate Yankee, an supposedly offensive term the defeated British overlords chose to call us, but I'm not sure this is typical of revolutionaries, and it wasn't incorporated into an official name of the country.

Then we should change Ireland to Éire because english is the language of the opressor in this case

 

[physics1915]

Because they're different in "some foreign language". Do you mean, they're different in their own language? I imagine you'd cheerfully correct a Japanese tourist referring to 'Rundin' - "Oh no mate, that's how foreigners say it. This is London. Get it freaking right."

The attitude that everything in the world should bow to having an English name - because you know, all those foreign places, why should they be allowed to have foreign names - is just stupid.

Bigotry like this makes me sick.

Do you even comprehend that Yangon etc is the original name of the place in question? They're not saying 'No, Rangoon is not proper English.' they're saying 'No, Rangoon is not what this place is called, you poncy English moron.'

No, I would not expect the Japanese to start calling London, 'London', especially knowing that the English 'L' sound doesn't really make much sense in Japanese. I suspect 'Rundin' makes more sense in the Japanese language and flows more naturally; if I were speaking Japanese (assuming I could, for the sake of argument) that would be the term I'd use. You use the English term when speaking English, you use the Japanese term when speaking Japanese, it's really as simple as that. Now if a Japanese person is speaking English, they should probably try to use the English term, just like if a native English-speaking person is speaking Japanese, they should probably try to use the Japanese term. Use the term appropriate to the language you are speaking, not the term appropriate to the language of the place itself; there's nothing bigoted about it.

I never suggested the English term should be the universal term, merely that it should be the term used when speaking English. If you're speaking French and call 'Angleterre' 'England', that would be equally wrong; it would just be silly to use the term 'England' when speaking French...even if that's what they call it in England itself where they speak English. Yes, Yangon is the name of the city in Burmese and the term you should use when speaking Burmese, but when you're speaking English it's Rangoon. Just like England is the original name of the country and the term you should probably try to use when speaking English, but when you're speaking French you should probably be calling it 'Angleterre' instead. Likewise, Germany is Germany in English, but if you're speaking German it's 'Deutschland', there's nothing nefarious going on there, there's nothing inherently wrong with the term 'Deutschland', it's just not the term we use in English. I'm must confess, I'm a bit confused as to why this makes you sick? By definition, different languages have different names for places, objects, actions, etc; if all the names were the same, they wouldn't be different languages, would they?

Oh, and it's always rude to correct someone's pronunciation no matter how atrocious (the more atrocious the pronunciation, the ruder it is to correct it), so even if a Japanese gentleman were speaking English, but using the term 'Rundin' for 'London', no, I certainly would not correct him.

 

[TheDungen]

Then we should change Ireland to Éire because english is the language of the opressor in this case

We do, we call it eire land. They call themselves eire we recognise that it's eireland, the land of the eire. It's basically a translation of the name they use themselves. Unlike Suomi Finland and Sapmi Lapland which are based on names we gave those peoples. Totaly unrealted to the names they use themselves. English translation names are ok as long as it's at least an attempt to use the name they use themselves.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Then we should change Ireland to Éire because english is the language of the opressor in this case

Good point. English is the main language of Ireland today, but it wasn't always so. If Sapmi ends up populated by Swedish speaking Sami who can't speak the old language, maybe Lappland would be more appropriate. Sapmi is the modern English name, Lappland is the old English name. Sapmi and Ireland would go together and Lappland and Eire would go together?

 

[Arachne]

I don't understand how some people can be thin-skinned enough to be offended by the name "Sápmi". I guess these same people would shriek at the name Ivan the Terrible - "I don't want to see this foreign stuff, this is an English game and I want to see the name translated into the perfectly good English name John!"

 

[physics1915]

You're calling awareness of racism and eugenics 'whining' while in a thread complaining about the name of an alt-history nation in a computer game

Do you even realize how ironic that is?

Touche, no reason to get too worked up by the names in a video game either, it's a rather trivial thing. But there's a wider movement (as clearly seen by the comments here) to deliberately butcher the English language and force non-English terms on English speakers. I'm glad so many people have a desire to learn this great language of Chaucer and Shakespeare and I understand that languages evolve; I don't think we need to go to the same lengths the French go to in order to protect the integrity of their language. But trying to argue that traditional English terms are inappropriate or even wrong is simply a bridge too far. I would never presume to tell the French which French terms are correct or appropriate or insist English terms should be used in lieu of French terms, I respect that such determinations are their prerogative; I simply think the same courtesy should be extended to us English-speakers and, indeed, to all peoples with respect to their own native language.

 

[IIWW]

You're calling awareness of racism and eugenics 'whining' while in a thread complaining about the name of an alt-history nation in a computer game

Do you even realize how ironic that is?

As far as I remember You guys consider naming in-game concept "kebab" to be racist. The problem with political corectness is that it goes to such absurd range.

 

[matissvein]

People, just calm down.

Lets just use a completely strange language to the dominance of people in here. For example: latvian.

Sāmzeme. Happy now?

 

[myrsl0ken]

As far as I remember You guys consider naming in-game concept "kebab" to be racist. The problem with political corectness is that it goes to such absurd range.

Well, it is. And if you can't understand why, there's really no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[IIWW]

Well, it is. And if you can't understand why, there's really no point in continuing this discussion.

It is not, and if You can't understand why, there is no pont in continuing this discussion.
On serious note, people should learn to draw a border between a game and real life. I hate France or Ottos in game, it doesn't mean I hate them IRL. But since I hate them in game, sometimes I use offensive term about them. I wouldn't use this term about real life country/people, but in game? The hell, those virtual people exist for my amusement, they have no right to feel offended (and if they feel at all then it's pretty scary).

 

[Krajzen]

As far as I remember You guys consider naming in-game concept "kebab" to be racist. The problem with political corectness is that it goes to such absurd range.

I am not Turk but if I were I would really not like my nation being called 'kebab'... This is the word describing a piece of meat. Delicious but still, a piece of cheap meat sold on the street. It also manages to sound surprisingly retarded when used as a pejorative description.

And in these aspects there is no such thing as 'objective fact of not being insulting', if subject of the description doesn't like being called that way it's damn enough to be nice and not use that.

Of course you are talking about video game AI country but still... If PLC was (even more) overpowered I would feel uncomfortable walking into forums and listening to particular insulting term aimed at my country, even in eu4 jokes ("take that, polish whores!")

I

 

[Kung Zog]

Touche, no reason to get too worked up by the names in a video game either, it's a rather trivial thing. But there's a wider movement (as clearly seen by the comments here) to deliberately butcher the English language and force non-English terms on English speakers. I'm glad so many people have a desire to learn this great language of Chaucer and Shakespeare and I understand that languages evolve; I don't think we need to go to the same lengths the French go to in order to protect the integrity of their language. But trying to argue that traditional English terms are inappropriate or even wrong is simply a bridge too far. I would never presume to tell the French which French terms are correct or appropriate or insist English terms should be used in lieu of French terms, I respect that such determinations are their prerogative; I simply think the same courtesy should be extended to us English-speakers and, indeed, to all peoples with respect to their own native language.

Since the Swedish state and Church actively tried to destroy the Sami culture and engaged in an eugenic project against the Sami people, the word Lapp, which almost exclusively was used derogatory during the 19th and 20th century has a bad taste to it, much similar to the N-word in an American context. When used these days it is mostly used to hurt, or in some cases due to ignorance.

 

[daihatsu]

Agree with the OP. Inconsistency with the naming of countries is not good, I believe that for an English language game, the country names should be in English. Derogatory or not.