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Re profit, I’m sure you are right – I just need to find an angle/target in Könugarðr that hasn’t already had its claim staked! I have such a situational question arising from the next session. I think I know the answer, but it’ll be good to make another learning point out of it.
I really had waited a long time for that! A very slow process for now – I gather can be hastened if the religion ever gets reformed. Long way off that yet.
I'm saying because it's on our way anyway, is there loot to be had in the southernmost Byzantine tip of the Crimean peninsula? Kerch I believe or Theodosia?
A good idea, but at this stage Rurik wanted his troops back quickly so he can take up some more options following the fulfilment of the ‘Realm Prospers’ ambition (in April).
I’m just waiting for it all to turn to chaos on the succession. There is a small foretaste of that kind of thing in the next chapter.
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Chap53 Q1: Pressing Vassal Claims.I know this is a thing, though for the reasons above not a big one for Rurik at the moment. But any thoughts – especially in the context of a Russian-based Norse tribal ruler – on the utility of such claims, or more general tips for enforcing them, would be welcome.
Pressing (convenient and useful) claims is always a good thing, but I don't know what the specifics would be for your realm. If the claim was for a bigger title, it would be a great way to start a war since we're low on useful CBs.
Pressing other people's claims is a situational thing, usually most useful when the target in question would be more difficult to get at through fabricating your own claim or through other CBs. Just be aware that in order for the new land to be added to your own realm, the following conditions have to be satisfied:
1.The claim being pressed must be of lesser rank than your highest title.
2.At least one of the following must apply:
a. The claimant must be of your dynasty.
b. The claim must be part of one of your titles' de jure territory.
c. The claimant must already be a landed vassal under you (though they don't necessarily have to be your immediate vassal; vassals of vassals count.)
Yes, I can see that makes much sense. And, if you get it wrong, they won’t even be your vassal any more, I’m thinking! Or that title won’t be.
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Chap53 Note 1: Unannounced Casualties.I tested this out in another different short ‘trial game’. The same thing (ie casualties being suffered with no message, when the leader was not there in person and despite the commanders being tagged as characters of interest) happened there a few times, but in those cases the sieges were seen through and the casualties were included in the battle report, as they normally would be. In these raids, I normally leave before the sieges are resolved, so don’t get a report. I think this must be it, on the balance of probabilities. There were no attrition warnings/symbols and no disease etc in the counties. If there's some message setting I've missed (been through it a few times now) that would provide these reports anyway, I'd really appreciate a heads-up about it. A screenshot too, maybe, just to make sure. If not, I'll get let it go.
Yep, I’m pretty certain about it now. And no-one has come up yet with a setting change etc that might allow the reports to be viewed when the player character isn’t present.
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Chap53 Q2: Future Directions.Rurik wishes to make the most of the time he has left. I have some ideas of my own, but there are, as mentioned above, many possibilities. Even more raiding, though this latest one is done but not yet dusted. As always, views and suggestions are always welcome.
You know I always advocate for Russian Empire. Therefore 3 of the provinces of Saksa are of importance to us (Obran Osh, the one just north of it, and the one just north of that accross the river; I guess Gorodez and Galich Mersky?) and giving him a beating would also mean our son in law will inherit a better realm so that's a plan. Anything from the heathen on our south (de jure kingdom of Ruthenia) is fair game (they also have Mozhasyk, the 4th province of our kingdom that we lack, which seems to be coming our way anyway). Also to the north we have our natural territory (de jure kingdom of Perm) in the tundra but there are poor stuff. If our priority is the religious reform, then we should attack Ostlandet although the other holy sites will be out of reach for quite some time anyway. I say 1st priority would be any provinces in our de jure kingdom that we still lack (3 provinces of Mari, I don't know what kind of CB we can use for that). 2nd priority will be Ruthenia (Konugarthr) which is richer than Perm and already imploding. 3rd would be the tundra kingdom of Perm. 4th will be Ostlandet?
Very pertinent advice. We get into more detail about these specifics at the end of the next chapter, after the raiders finally return (it’s all moot until then, and the circumstances have a habit of twisting and turning, you won’t be surprised to know! I think Ostlandet is off the menu for me right now, but will definitely have to figure in the future.
Again, noted. Though I also have the religious reform objective too. I’ll try to do both when the best opportunities seem to present themselves.
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Chap53 Q3: I (want to) see Dead People.I’m assuming he probably just died in prison and I didn’t notice the report. Ah well. Is there any way of searching for dead characters, other than when they're included in the profiles of other living characters? I searched for Setyamka among the living using the character finder and he didn't come up.
The game does periodically and quietly cull "one-off" characters (those without titles, claims, roles, or relatives, or otherwise in special circumstances) to save on space and increase performance -- it's something P'dox implemented relatively recently in their effort to combat bloated save files and late-game slowdowns. I think while he was alive and in your dungeons Setyamka may have been exempt from the culling, but since he was a peasant leader with no other ties, once he died the game probably erased him from history.
And yes, characters dying in dungeons without their holder being notified is a bit of an annoyance
Q3: No way I know of except to crack open the save, which isn't useful for ironman. And I think CK2 is pretty aggressive about culling characters from the save when they lack connections to living characters.
Right, pretty conclusive, thanks guys. Setyamka has impudently escaped his fate at the next Blot – but he is now beyond Rurik’s justice!
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The next chapter is written and illustrated, just need to upload, format and proof. Will get to that tomorrow (my time) some time! Thanks once again for the help and responses, very useful as always.
Very pertinent advice. We get into more detail about these specifics at the end of the next chapter, after the raiders finally return (it’s all moot until then, and the circumstances have a habit of twisting and turning, you won’t be surprised to know! I think Ostlandet is off the menu for me right now, but will definitely have to figure in the future.
One thing to note (we won't need this at least for quite many years but still). As far as I know during Gavelkind succession even if there's only 1 top level title (i.e. Kingdom of Garðaríki), if enough provinces from other de jure kingdoms are accumulated, even though for those kingdoms do not have the kingdom titles created/usurped, they might just get created by game during succession and go to younger siblings.
As I said I'm not really sure if this is how it works, but if that is the case best would be to stop just short of less than 51% of the counties of any de jure kingdom when we are not close to creating an empire level title. This is one of the main reasons I've been advocating for the Rus Empire title so we're in the clear when conquering provinces from other de jure kingdoms. One last caveat is, to deliberately create (or to risk the auto creation) a kingdom level title one needs 51% counties of the de jure kingdom. For the empire level title, that is 80% of the territory. For us that means we can safely hold 8 (out of 17) Perm counties and 12 (out of 25) Konugarthr counties while we should have 100% of the 24 Garthariki counties. This will make in total 44 (out of 66, makes 67%) counties while we would need 53 counties to declare the empire. Also, we can have at most 8 (out of 16) Finland counties without risking anything and I guess we are safely holding 3 of them.
Back to the empire topic, if I'm not making up the auto creation and splitting of kingdom level titles thing, we need to first go for 8 Perm and 12 Konugarthr provinces, then hoard a shitload of prestige/piety and gold (I think these will be in Helgi's time) enough to create 2 kingdom and 1 empire titles at once, then quickly add 9 more provinces (53 necessary - 44 can be safely held) and create the titles before some ill befalls the ruler. I'm not sure which CB will do it for us but this is the maths part of it.
One thing to note (we won't need this at least for quite many years but still). As far as I know during Gavelkind succession even if there's only 1 top level title (i.e. Kingdom of Garðaríki), if enough provinces from other de jure kingdoms are accumulated, even though for those kingdoms do not have the kingdom titles created/usurped, they might just get created by game during succession and go to younger siblings.
As I said I'm not really sure if this is how it works, but if that is the case best would be to stop just short of less than 51% of the counties of any de jure kingdom when we are not close to creating an empire level title. This is one of the main reasons I've been advocating for the Rus Empire title so we're in the clear when conquering provinces from other de jure kingdoms. One last caveat is, to deliberately create (or to risk the auto creation) a kingdom level title one needs 51% counties of the de jure kingdom. For the empire level title, that is 80% of the territory. For us that means we can safely hold 8 (out of 17) Perm counties and 12 (out of 25) Konugarthr counties while we should have 100% of the 24 Garthariki counties. This will make in total 44 (out of 66, makes 67%) counties while we would need 53 counties to declare the empire. Also, we can have at most 8 (out of 16) Finland counties without risking anything and I guess we are safely holding 3 of them.
Back to the empire topic, if I'm not making up the auto creation and splitting of kingdom level titles thing, we need to first go for 8 Perm and 12 Konugarthr provinces, then hoard a shitload of prestige/piety and gold (I think these will be in Helgi's time) enough to create 2 kingdom and 1 empire titles at once, then quickly add 9 more provinces (53 necessary - 44 can be safely held) and create the titles before some ill befalls the ruler. I'm not sure which CB will do it for us but this is the maths part of it.
Chapter 54: Brotherly Love (28 March – 31 July 888)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … The Raiders have just begun their long voyage back from Italia; King Dyre of Könugarðr sees no end to his troubles; Rurik’s daughter is warned off a murder plot while there are rumours of a mysterious conspiracy on the life Rurik’s son Dyre; and the situation of young High Chief Yazi of Pecheneg looks hopeless as he tries to fend off Saksa the Monster of Mari after the Bulgarians launch a Holy War on him.
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March-April 888
King Vladimir 'the Wise’ of Bulgaria’s holy war on Pecheneg is revealed to be yet another attempted Orthodox Christian invasion of honest (if heathen) pagan lands. While on this occasion Saksa of Mari is likely to have robbed the nest before Vladimir can gain any traction, it is a worrying sign. These heathen Christians seem persistent in launching their wars of forced conversion.
In late April, Rurik’s five-year ambition to see the realm prosper was successfully completed. He hoped the ‘significant prosperity boost’ would live up to its name – and wondered whether is would be permanent or finite in duration. His Steward Alfgeir, in Nygarðr for a short visit before heading back to Ladoga to settle more Norse tribesmen, was asked for an explanation.
“I am not sure, King Rurik, it is the first time I have encountered this bounteous event. I will have to ask some of my accountants for an opinion.”
Ch54 Q1: Prosperity Boost.Is there a set amount or some way to determine what the quantum of the ‘prosperity boost’ following the success of the Realm Prosper ambition? And is it just a temporary thing, or a permanent thing? If temporary, how long does it last for?
“So be it, Alfgeir. Before you head back to Ladoga, I will let you know I have been searching for a new ambition for my efforts. All I have been able to come up with is one to accumulate more wealth, supposedly for a ‘war chest’. That is what we would tell the people, anyway.”
“You know I will always support accumulating more gold as an objective, My King!”
“Yes, but I just want to confirm a few things. First, my reading of this is that I only get to levy a temporary ‘war tax’ if I succeed in accumulating 700 gold in the treasury first? Is that right?”
“I think so My King but will check.”
“And second, it seems I could only levy that tax until 30 March 893. Does that mean, no matter how long it takes me to get to that 700 gold objective, the ‘war tax’ can only be levied until then? Not for five years after I might succeed, for example?”
“Again, I think so, but will confer and respond to your question, My King.”
Ch54 Q2: Build War Chest (technical).Per Rurik’s questions, one only gets to levy a temporary ‘war tax’ if you succeed in accumulating 700 gold in the treasury first? And no matter how long it takes you to get to that 700 gold objective, the ‘war tax’ can only be levied until the date specified? Meaning the quicker it is achieved, the longer the benefit is accrued for?
Ch54 Q3: Build War Chest (advice).I don’t think it likely (even if Rurik lives for years yet) that he would want to bother a serious attempt on this one anyway. I’m more likely to want to spend it on improvements or building up the Novgorodian Band. Though, if people thought it worth pursuing, I could concentrate on improvements that use prestige and bank raid proceeds for a while.
“Very well. Not urgent – mid-year will do for an answer. And I am also going to use my prestige with the people to help upgrade the training grounds in Holmgarðr. I will be looking for another project soon too.”
“I'd like your supervisory expertise to hasten the building, but you keep up your important work in Ladoga: good travels – and watch out for anti-Norse hoodlums! We don’t want you stabbed again.”
“Farewell, My King. I’ll be as careful as I can, but it is provocative work. Until next time.”
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A few days later, the new market town in Toropets (another of the four ‘core counties’ of the central Jarldom of Holmgarðr) was completed. As foreshadowed (and heeding advice offered at the last Þing) Rurik used more of his prestige to attract warriors and artisans to a new war camp in Toropets, to begin building the size of its levy and garrison. It was part of the legacy he wished to leave his successor, who must be stronger than all those around him once Rurik’s holdings were broken up under the gavelkind succession laws.
[Comment: This will leave Rurik with 132 prestige, with around another 200 due when the raiders return. I decided at this point – heeding wise advice proffered earlier – not to keep 500 prestige ‘banked’ for a tribal army. The levy is now well grown, so I’m hoping I’ll have enough troops for most near-term contingencies.]
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May 888
In early May, Jarl Tyueykezhut – having already been beaten to Mozhaysk by Chief Gradimir of Tver – completed his siege of Kolomna and headed next for King Dyre’s border province of Moramar.
Dyre’s wall map just became that little bit uglier, Rurik chuckled to himself. And come to think of it, Tyueykezhut is a pretty persuasive chap – his ambitions for Council membership are actually valid. If poor old Hrörekr shuffles off before I do, I think he would be a pretty good Chancellor. Better even than Hrörekr, but I will not replace him out of loyalty, even if making the Jarl Chancellor would be the smart political move right now. It would be unjust.
Later that month, one of the welter of foreign reports that passed his desk caught Rurik’s eye. King Sigurdr Snake-in-the-Eye (Ragnarrsson) had solidified the Danish grip on southern Britannia by forming a Jarldom of Wessex. With Jorvik strong in the north and other Viking realms beyond that, the Celts and Saxons seemed doomed to fade from the land under Viking supremacy.
A little tit-bit here for all you Wessexians and Ragnarrsson fans out there.
The same bundle of documents had the latest report from the Mari subjugation war on Pecheneg: Yazi had lost his seat of Sary Su in the Lower Volga again: his position was rapidly becoming hopeless.
On 30 May, with word the raiding fleet would soon be home, Rurik directed Helgi to double the recruitment rate for the new Housecarl Retinue. He hoped that would not send the monthly finances into deficit, though there was enough cash in the bank and more on the way to sustain a small one. It was the principle of the thing. The accountants were asked to keep an eye on the budget.
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June 888
Þorsteinn reigned his lathered horse to a halt in the dusty courtyard of the keep in Nygarðr. While the boats worked their way up the rivers of the hinterland, he thought he would come ahead overland to report to his King and reunite with his wife, whom he had left behind almost two years before. It was then that news of his previous wife’s death from illness was broken to him and of the new arrangement that had been made for him by the king (indeed back in early August the year before, to Zabava, a Russian who held to the true Germanic religion). And of his happy tidings! [Comment: another one of those distant conception things CK2 does regularly. So the child is entirely legitimate, even if in practical terms this would be the first time Þorsteinn would have laid eyes on his new wife given his recent raiding duties].
Another CK2 miracle child!
The middle of June brought more bad news for King Dyre. Narvait of Latgale had taken yet another Könugarðian stronghold. But Dyre fought on obstinately. With what, it was unclear, as various border chiefs seemed to now roam over his lands at will.
And then, on 21 June, a dark family secret was revealed. A letter from the Queen (left in a pile of correspondence Rurik did not see until 2 July [ie I only saw it when I was checking a backlog of reports]) explained the plot to kill their son Dyre was real and she had got to the bottom of who was behind it:
“Husband, our son is plotting to murder our son! It is Eilif who is behind the plot to kill his own brother. He has enlisted the aid of two stooges: Ladimir of Belo Ozero and that notorious kin-slayer Gradimir of Tver.”
“The plot is as yet unlikely to succeed, but it is a dark stain on our family and does not bode well for the future. Best it is kept as quiet as possible.”
The idiot, Rurik blazed to himself. My children are turning murderous! We will become no better than the Slovenskys at this rate.
The whole thing was complicated by memory of a previous family plot – safely aborted years ago – where the Queen had conspired to kill the heir, Prince Helgi, before he had converted to the Germanic faith.
“I know you will wonder what may lie behind this,” the Queen’s letter continued. “I have discovered that our two boys, at some point in the recent past and behind our backs, as it were, have become fierce rivals. I fear it may be irreconcilable, but you must at least try to stop them killing each other. The Gods alone know what may happen once each has their own Jarldom. If they both live that long!”
As Rurik face-palms himself, he reads on – it gets worse.
“And finally, once this rivalry between Eilif and Dyre was uncovered, it also came to my attention that Eilif has also developed a rivalry with his young nephew, your grandson, Hakon, Helgi’s second son. You will need to let Helgi know. As far as I know, there is no animosity between Helgi and Eilif, but if that rivalry sparks into something worse – I shudder for the future stability of the realm!”
Rurik brings Helgi in for a difficult discussion. As for the two stooges Ladimir and Gradimir [all they need is a Vladimir now for a trio ] – well, he would keep a very close eye on them. He couldn’t really punish them without doing the same to the ringleader and also making the whole sordid episode public knowledge. He just wanted it to go away: hopefully Eilif would listen to reason. For now.
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July 888
The King wrote to Eilif at the beginning of July, directing him to abandon his murderous plot on his brother. A reply was soon received – polite, though rather blasé – seemingly written in the full expectation (correct, as it happens) that his conspiracy would be forgiven. Though not forgotten.
A report from Alfgeir seemed to indicate that the increase in retinue recruiting should remain fiscally bearable, with monthly expenses still a little less than income and another cash injection on the way.
Then, on 21 July, the raiding fleet finally returned after two years of Norse Adventure Tourism. Most men had made it back, though the bodies of many had been left on foreign soil, while their spirits revelled in Valhalla. The levies were soon dismissed: when next called, they would number over 3,000.
Helgi announced another of his ‘massive recruitment drives’ in Holmgarðr on 26 July – very good timing for the options on further expansion about to be considered. On 31 July, Rurik mustered his available Councillors – or their representatives – in Nygarðr to examine those options.
Prince-Marshal Helgi was the first to report. The demesne levy was building well, as was the new retinue, slowly but surely. Also, nine ships could be called upon in addition to the personally bound fleet of 40 that were loyal to Rurik personally. The caveat was that the counties these ships originated from would probably be inherited by Rurik’s younger sons rather than Helgi, meaning he would not be able to command them directly. A problem for another time, but one the new King would have to confront eventually.
Next, Alfgeir confirmed the treasury has now swelled to almost 400 gold. While there would only be any appreciable increase from more raiding or conquest, it put the ‘war chest’ ambition of 700 in reach with another raid or two. And for now, there was enough to be able to hire mercenaries in an emergency, to buy a few improvements to core demesne counties or to help improve the Novgorodian Band. Once Rurik had calmed down enough to contemplate giving such funds to the unruly Eilif, its commander.
And Chancellor Hrörekr advised the recent raid had once again boosted Rurik’s prestige. There would be enough for another [300 prestige only] improvement if desired.
Discussion then turned to likely targets for expansion. The broad options were generally familiar, though the specific circumstances always changed enough for them to be considered freshly each time. That time had arrived.
“My Liege,” opened Hrörekr. “We have three firm border claims on Saksa the Monster of Mari, who impertinently controls three counties that rightfully belong to the de jure Kingdom of Garðariki [Rus]. You could justly claim a case for war for any of them but, by the immutable laws of the steppe, only one at a time. A slow business.”
The three Garðarikian crests mark the relevant counties.
“It would at least put a severe dent in Saksa’s ambitions, father,” opined Helgi. “Though I am afraid it may be too late now to prevent his subjugation of the Pechenegs.”
“Yes, I’m afraid so,” agreed Hrörekr. “By our latest reckoning, with three of his four counties occupied by the Monster, Yazi is likely to surrender at any moment.”
“Father, we would gain a county in all likelihood, but with the increased size of Mari now, it could take quite a bit of fighting to force the concession. And without a tribal army to call upon now, we believe we would have the numbers – especially with some of our more loyal vassals answering the call – but it would be no walkover and could cost many lives.”
“I’m not advising that we press it, but there is another case for war available,” observed the elderly Chancellor. “One of Jarl Tyueykezhut’s vassals, Chief Kya of Sursdalar, has a strong claim on Saka’s own High Chiefdom of Mari. We could legitimately offer to press that claim on his behalf.”
“Would that be to our advantage?”
“I think only indirectly, My Liege. First, here is a legal opinion I have sought on the matter.”
“If I interpret this correctly, My Liege, given you are not of the same dynasty as Kya and are not the de jure liege of the High Chiefdom of Mari, were we to succeed, Kya would hold the title in his own right and would not fall under your obligation nor be part of the Kingdom of Garðariki. It would certainly be a heavy blow for Saksa, but of no great advantage to you or our realm. I advise against such a prosecution. If we are to strike Saksa, it may as well be for one of the border provinces that we can keep.”
Ch54 Q4: Mari Claim and Similar.So, I think I’ve assembled and read the information correctly here and it seems to jibe with previous advice along these lines: this would just be fighting a war for someone else’s benefit, I believe. But not having fought a claim war yet, just thought I’d use this as a bit of a test case. If it had been in the de jure Russia Empire, would I have been able to claim that over Kya to make him a vassal? Or does that only work if you’re the Emperor already? I tested this by looking at current CBs against Dyre of Könugarðr, which is mainly in the de jure Russian Empire, and the only claim CB that came up was for Mozhaysk, which is just de jure Rus/Garðariki. And finally, I’m assuming if Mari had been in the de jure Rus/Garðariki kingdom (of which I’m already the ruler), I could have claimed Kya as a vassal).
“All right, we’ll get confirmation at the next Þing, but it looks pretty conclusive to me: we’ll ignore that one. What of Könugarðr?”
“In terms of widening the realm into de jure lands, only Mozkaysk is in Dyre’s hands – and that has already been occupied by Gradimir and claimed by two of your vassals. Of the unoccupied border counties at present, only Roslavl and Moramar remain in Dyre’s possession. And the first is besieged by Chief Gradimir, the second by Jarl Tyueykezhut! Perhaps when the current mess is cleared up, we could look at options that could one day contribute to a claim of a pan-Russian Empire, as most of Könugarðr falls within its de jure bounds.”
“Hmm, that leaves the north-west then.”
“Yes, My Liege. This map shows the de jure duchies in the area we already hold some stake in. Here I speak of Satakunta, Karelia and Estonia. It could be worth looking for gains in those, to then establish those as Garðarikian Jarldoms. We may look to the north-east and Perm eventually, but I remain aware of your desire to move west to the Holy Sites before that.”
“And here are the current de facto borders. It would be particularly useful to consolidate our holdings in Finland, while Estonia offers more shipbuilding facilities. Any of these provinces could be a useful acquisition.”
“As with our other neighbours, the only legal basis we have for warring on them in conquest of border counties, one at a time.”
“So, we will consider our possibilities and reconvene later this evening, after Hrörekr puts then before the Þing that has been summoned for this afternoon.”
Ch54 Q5: Future Options.Following on from last time, the initial thinking leans towards expansion into southern Finland to start tidying up that map. There is a total of four different small realms that can be conquered, depending on how long it may take a Finnish defensive pact to form – and how much such a pact would be a credible deterrent. Narva in Estonia is another option. Könugarðr would be good to start chipping away at, but things need to resolve a little there before it will be practical – there’s just nothing useful on offer right now. Mari is a possibility, especially if I want to take Saksa down a peg. Though it could be more protracted than we want at the moment. There are no easy coastal pickings in Norway or Sweden: they are all owned by one of the ‘big three’ Viking realms – except perhaps for Sapmi, a Finnish High Chiefdom at the top of the Gulf of Bothnia. Perm or other Empire gains will be looked at in the mid-term - probably after the succession, whenever that may come. But readers may think differently, so I welcome any thoughts – whether on broad strategy, sequencing, timing or more tactical considerations.
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Questions
Quite a few this time, so there will be another full Þing.
Ch54 Q1: Prosperity Boost.Is there a set amount or some way to determine what the quantum of the ‘prosperity boost’ following the success of the Realm Prosper ambition? And is it just a temporary thing, or a permanent thing? If temporary, how long does it last for?
Ch54 Q2: Build War Chest (technical).Per Rurik’s questions, one only gets to levy a temporary ‘war tax’ if you succeed in accumulating 700 gold in the treasury first? And no matter how long it takes you to get to that 700 gold objective, the ‘war tax’ can only be levied until the date specified? Meaning the quicker it is achieved, the longer the benefit is accrued for?
Ch54 Q3: Build War Chest (advice).I don’t think it likely (even if Rurik lives for years yet) that he would want to bother a serious attempt on this one anyway. I’m more likely to want to spend it on improvements or building up the Novgorodian Band. Though, if people thought it worth pursuing, I could concentrate on improvements that use prestige and bank raid proceeds for a while.
Ch54 Q4: Mari Claim and Similar.So, I think I’ve assembled and read the information correctly here and it seems to jibe with previous advice along these lines: this would just be fighting a war for someone else’s benefit, I believe. But not having fought a claim war yet, just thought I’d use this as a bit of a test case. If it had been in the de jure Russia Empire, would I have been able to claim that over Kya to make him a vassal? Or does that only work if you’re the Emperor already? I tested this by looking at current CBs against Dyre of Könugarðr, which is mainly in the de jure Russian Empire, and the only claim CB that came up was for Mozhaysk, which is just de jure Rus/Garðariki. And finally, I’m assuming if Mari had been in the de jure Rus/Garðariki kingdom (of which I’m already the ruler), I could have claimed Kya as a vassal).
Ch54 Q5: Future Options.Following on from last time, the initial thinking leans towards expansion into southern Finland to start tidying up that map. There is a total of four different small realms that can be conquered, depending on how long it may take a Finnish defensive pact to form – and how much such a pact would be a credible deterrent. Narva in Estonia is another option. Könugarðr would be good to start chipping away at, but things need to resolve a little there before it will be practical – there’s just nothing useful on offer right now. Mari is a possibility, especially if I want to take Saksa down a peg. Though it could be more protracted than we want at the moment. There are no easy coastal pickings in Norway or Sweden: they are all owned by one of the ‘big three’ Viking realms – except perhaps for Sapmi, a Finnish High Chiefdom at the top of the Gulf of Bothnia. Perm or other Empire gains will be looked at in the mid-term - probably after the succession, whenever that may come. But readers may think differently, so I welcome any thoughts – whether on broad strategy, sequencing, timing or more tactical considerations.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Another plot foiled. Eilif and his Two Stooges were stopped before they could get too far – but not before the attempted internal family strike put a bit of a scare into the royal dynasty.
The picture above (from the 10th century) is an illustration of the assassination of Vaclav ‘the Good’ by Boleslav ‘the Cruel’. It shows Vaclav being pursued by his sword-wielding brother. I cut out a priest (on the right) refusing entry to Vaclav because he looked too, well, Christian for this good Norse realm.
The interweb tells me (so it must be true) that according to the Czech chronicler Cosmas of Prague (who followed in the august footsteps of Gumarich der Scheiber), on September 28, 929, Boleslav decided to kill his brother Vaclav, and replace him as Duke of Bohemia. Cosmas writes that “he deceitfully invited his brother to a feast where he schemed instead to kill him in order to seize control of the realm.” As the deed was done, Boleslav’s wife gave birth to a son, who they named Strachkvas, meaning “terrifying feast”. Boleslav would rule the Czechs for another 35 years, while Vaclav was canonized a saint and is remembered to this day as “Good King Wenceslas”.
Or, according to another account (Wikipedia): (Saint) Wenceslaus I (Czech: Václav); c. 907 – September 28, 935), Wenceslas I or Václav the Good was the duke (kníže) of Bohemia from 921 until his assassination in 935. His younger brother, Boleslaus the Cruel, was complicit in the murder. His martyrdom and the popularity of several biographies gave rise to a reputation for heroic virtue that resulted in his elevation to sainthood. He was posthumously declared to be a king and came to be seen as the patron saint of the Czech state. He is the subject of the well-known "Good King Wenceslas", a carol for Saint Stephen's Day.
Whatever the accepted details, you get the general idea. A very CK2 story – including the nicknames. And brothers going for each other.
Oh, the hilarities of CK2 are usually pretty well attested in history But as for the brotherly plotting, I mean, they are Russians when all is said and done. Or Norseman living in the Rus, which is surely much the same. I mean, have you ever read Simon Sebag Montefiore's book The Romanovs about what Russian royal families got up to after they became civilised! It is a great read, and I recommend it.
I would say Narva sounds interesting.
I think the claim war for Mari sounds correctly thought out, and not worth the effort at this time.
Given Rurik's age I am not sure that a potentially longer-term ambition like the War Chest is necessarily worth it, but I must confess I don't know the technical aspects.
Ch54 Q1: Prosperity Boost.Is there a set amount or some way to determine what the quantum of the ‘prosperity boost’ following the success of the Realm Prosper ambition? And is it just a temporary thing, or a permanent thing? If temporary, how long does it last for?
A long read, actually, but there's this mechanism where each province has a hidden "prosperity" score and this goes up (peace, having a city, being coastal, not being tribal etc) and down (war, being besieged, raided etc). When this is over certain thresholds (100/250/500) it jumps up a level where are positive modifiers (Local tax modifier, Levy reinforce rate,Local revolt risk, Supply limit, Local build cost modifier, Local build time modifier, Disease resistance) and chance of positive events (see below).
Code:
A crown focus province that already has a high prosperity level is eligible for special events. These events are more frequent with high stewardship and learning skills.
At prosperity level 2, a province with a different culture can be converted at the cost 100% of your yearly income. It also converts the province's religion and removes the nomad agitation modifier, if relevant.
At prosperity level 3, a new settlement slot can be created for 250% of yearly income.
At prosperity level 3, various positive modifiers can be added to the province:
Bonus (Requirements)
Jewish Settlement +25% city tax (Christian, Zoroastrian or Muslim; no "Expelled the Jews" modifier; no "Minority Settlement" modifier (in the province))
Minority Settlement +25% city tax (not Christian, Zoroastrian or Muslim; no "Jewish Settlement" modifier (in the province))
Glorious Monument +0.5 Prestige
Merchant Harbor +50% galleys (province is coastal)
Scholar Foundation +0.03 military tech points, +0.03 cultural tech points, +0.03 economic tech points
Great Library +25% technology spread rate
Center of worship +0.25 Piety, +25% temple tax
Logging Company -15% build cost -15% build time (province terrain is forest or jungle)
Ore Mine +10% tax-10% build cost (province terrain is mountain)
Regimental Ground +15% levy
and this is how to increase it:
Code:
The ambition to Obj see realm prosper 5.png "See the Realm Prosper":
Enables some flavor events that increase prosperity
If peace is successfully maintained for 5 years, the ambition succeeds and adds 35 points to every eligible province in the entire realm (not just demesne!)
Councilors can increase prosperity:
Certain job actions add 6 points when successful:
Marshal: train troops
Steward: oversee construction
Spymaster: study technology
Spiritual: advance cultural technology
Passive Job flavour events for council members:
Any councilor with 12+ skill and Smart can trigger a "good at job" event
Marshal or steward with 15+ skill can offer to improve capital
Many peacetime decisions increase prosperity:
Most feasts and festivals add 8 points
A completed tournament adds 15 points
Several Dlc icon the old gods.png Old Gods Ancestor Worship Events increase prosperity
Other events:
A fleet returning with loot adds 12 points in your capital. Limited to once every 5 years (unless you change capital).
Several DLC icon Way of Life.png events from Way of Life, with the Business focus
Random opportunity to perform charity, if you have a province with a Hospital
Random opportunity to invest in provincial apothecaries, if you have a Court Physician
When a Master Engineer improves your demesne province, prosperity also increases.
So what I understand is every province we had just had 35 point increase, but depending on other factors that might ot might not have carried some of them over the next threshold. Mind you, I never knew about this mechanism until now so this is just me reading, copying and commenting about the wiki entry which seems substantial.
Ch54 Q2: Build War Chest (technical).Per Rurik’s questions, one only gets to levy a temporary ‘war tax’ if you succeed in accumulating 700 gold in the treasury first? And no matter how long it takes you to get to that 700 gold objective, the ‘war tax’ can only be levied until the date specified? Meaning the quicker it is achieved, the longer the benefit is accrued for?
I'm thinking it gives the date the bonus would be active for if it was completed today. I wouldn't think achieving it quicker would mean benefiting it longer but that's just my train of thought, no first hand experience about it.
Ch54 Q3: Build War Chest (advice).I don’t think it likely (even if Rurik lives for years yet) that he would want to bother a serious attempt on this one anyway. I’m more likely to want to spend it on improvements or building up the Novgorodian Band. Though, if people thought it worth pursuing, I could concentrate on improvements that use prestige and bank raid proceeds for a while.
I mean if there's no harm in selecting the focus but not completing it, you can just select it and if some fortunate amount of gold appears, it will get completed. Although as you said it isn't the best idea to form the core of strategy based on this. If there's a good opportunity by spending some, just go ahead
Ch54 Q4: Mari Claim and Similar.So, I think I’ve assembled and read the information correctly here and it seems to jibe with previous advice along these lines: this would just be fighting a war for someone else’s benefit, I believe. But not having fought a claim war yet, just thought I’d use this as a bit of a test case. If it had been in the de jure Russia Empire, would I have been able to claim that over Kya to make him a vassal? Or does that only work if you’re the Emperor already? I tested this by looking at current CBs against Dyre of Könugarðr, which is mainly in the de jure Russian Empire, and the only claim CB that came up was for Mozhaysk, which is just de jure Rus/Garðariki. And finally, I’m assuming if Mari had been in the de jure Rus/Garðariki kingdom (of which I’m already the ruler), I could have claimed Kya as a vassal).
I think all your interpretations here are correct, and since you're not the empire already, even if that province was in the de jure empire of Rus, I think he'd just not be your vassal.
Except for the Ostlandet holy site, the rest belong to realms which we'll have non agression pacts (royal marriages) for the next 2 generations if I'm not mistaken, and for to create the empire, you'll need Perm territory sooner or later. But still, of course no harm in getting close to the holy sites. Just make sure not to have 51% of the territory of any single de jure kingdom. So for example in the Satakunta/Karelia/Estonia/Livonia (which make up the de jure kingdom of Finland) we can have 5 more counties safely. This means 1 Estonian, 2 Satakuntan and 2 Karelian counties, the minimum amounts to usurp/create the duchy level titles. One more county though, and during a succession the kingdom of Finland will get auto created and go to Eilif of all people
Ch54 Q5: Future Options.Following on from last time, the initial thinking leans towards expansion into southern Finland to start tidying up that map. There is a total of four different small realms that can be conquered, depending on how long it may take a Finnish defensive pact to form – and how much such a pact would be a credible deterrent. Narva in Estonia is another option. Könugarðr would be good to start chipping away at, but things need to resolve a little there before it will be practical – there’s just nothing useful on offer right now. Mari is a possibility, especially if I want to take Saksa down a peg. Though it could be more protracted than we want at the moment. There are no easy coastal pickings in Norway or Sweden: they are all owned by one of the ‘big three’ Viking realms – except perhaps for Sapmi, a Finnish High Chiefdom at the top of the Gulf of Bothnia. Perm or other Empire gains will be looked at in the mid-term - probably after the succession, whenever that may come. But readers may think differently, so I welcome any thoughts – whether on broad strategy, sequencing, timing or more tactical considerations.
Taking from my comment just above, both the empire and religious reforms are a long way ahead (but I think relforms might be further) so you can go with either at the moment although my personal preference would've been empire just to be safer during future successions. Does Saksa share the religion of those Finns? If not that would be awesome as when one forms a pact you can go attack the other way. As I said just above, as long as you keep cautious about how many counties you hold from each de jure kingdom, you're safe.
If the Finland first approach gets the green light, I'd pick Uusimaa first, Suomi second, any random Karelia county 3rd. In the next round Narva first, another random Karelia county second. Thus, you can have 3 more Jarldoms picking the richest counties (I guessed the richest, you can check which holdings you like better) and not risk auto creation of the Finland kingdom. Beware though, one more country and it's twilight zone.
In between these 2 rounds waiting for the truce to run out, you can go attack Latgale. They're (I guess) a different religion (the only Romuvan neighbour we have I guess?) so will not contribute to forming of a coalition and a different kingdom so from that general area (de jure kingdom of Lithuania) we can have like 8 counties before risking the succession. So in between the 2 Finnish rounds you can attack first Latgale, then Courland, then whoever is in its immediate west... I cannot see clearly but there're like 3-4 realms there at least so in one round 3-4 counties can be added. I'm thinking by then the dog vomit would be calmer and we can start nibbling at that.
So long story short among all the de jure kingdoms around, we can have 5 Finnish, 8 Lithuanian (and 2 Sapmian, yes that's a 5 province kingdom in itself, if Finnmark is not part of Norway as I think it is, than 7 province kingdom so 3 allowed) provinces before we have to start expanding either into dog vomit or Perm or Mari.
Ch54 Q1: Prosperity Boost. Is there a set amount or some way to determine what the quantum of the ‘prosperity boost’ following the success of the Realm Prosper ambition? And is it just a temporary thing, or a permanent thing? If temporary, how long does it last for?
Diskoerekto above me handled this one well, but I have a couple things to add. The disease resistance that prosperity gives is a negative modifier (making disease more likely, probably due to the increased number of people, etc.). Also, prosperity can be lost by being sieged in wars, or having a massive plague (neither is an instant loss of prosperity).
Ch54 Q2: Build War Chest (technical). Per Rurik’s questions, one only gets to levy a temporary ‘war tax’ if you succeed in accumulating 700 gold in the treasury first? And no matter how long it takes you to get to that 700 gold objective, the ‘war tax’ can only be levied until the date specified? Meaning the quicker it is achieved, the longer the benefit is accrued for?
I am pretty sure you get the tax modifier for a set duration based on when you complete.
Ch54 Q3: Build War Chest (advice). I don’t think it likely (even if Rurik lives for years yet) that he would want to bother a serious attempt on this one anyway. I’m more likely to want to spend it on improvements or building up the Novgorodian Band. Though, if people thought it worth pursuing, I could concentrate on improvements that use prestige and bank raid proceeds for a while.
The build war chest objective is quite useful if you want to save up money to hire some mercs and launch a war (the 10% tax boost helps sustain this), or perhaps do some serious feudal build-up, since that will pay for a new castle holding. In your particular case, I should also mention that while gavelkind will split up your land, it will NOT split up your gold. It may be a good idea to set up your primary heir with a large chest of funds, although any remaining duration of tax boost does not carry over; it dies with Rurik.
Ch54 Q4: Mari Claim and Similar. So, I think I’ve assembled and read the information correctly here and it seems to jibe with previous advice along these lines: this would just be fighting a war for someone else’s benefit, I believe. But not having fought a claim war yet, just thought I’d use this as a bit of a test case. If it had been in the de jure Russia Empire, would I have been able to claim that over Kya to make him a vassal? Or does that only work if you’re the Emperor already? I tested this by looking at current CBs against Dyre of Könugarðr, which is mainly in the de jure Russian Empire, and the only claim CB that came up was for Mozhaysk, which is just de jure Rus/Garðariki. And finally, I’m assuming if Mari had been in the de jure Rus/Garðariki kingdom (of which I’m already the ruler), I could have claimed Kya as a vassal).
I will allow more learned people to advise you on this.
Ch54 Q5: Future Options. Following on from last time, the initial thinking leans towards expansion into southern Finland to start tidying up that map. There is a total of four different small realms that can be conquered, depending on how long it may take a Finnish defensive pact to form – and how much such a pact would be a credible deterrent. Narva in Estonia is another option. Könugarðr would be good to start chipping away at, but things need to resolve a little there before it will be practical – there’s just nothing useful on offer right now. Mari is a possibility, especially if I want to take Saksa down a peg. Though it could be more protracted than we want at the moment. There are no easy coastal pickings in Norway or Sweden: they are all owned by one of the ‘big three’ Viking realms – except perhaps for Sapmi, a Finnish High Chiefdom at the top of the Gulf of Bothnia. Perm or other Empire gains will be looked at in the mid-term - probably after the succession, whenever that may come. But readers may think differently, so I welcome any thoughts – whether on broad strategy, sequencing, timing or more tactical considerations.
I think going after the Estonia option is wise, as it positions you better towards the holy sites. If you are fully truced out with your westward enemies, I'd consider eating some of that dog's mess before looking eastwards. East is just more steppes, while the south is home to some nice land, even if it is a bit messy right now.
Other thoughts: Guess its a good thing for young Dyre that Rurik isn't a "survival of the fittest" kind of parent! From a gameplay perspective though it can be nice to have some excess sons weeded out, especially in gavelkind, where it may let your primary heir get more land.
Oh yes. I took Russian History. I remember how many Princes "fell" on their own daggers. At once point I asked the teacher 1) why they were given daggers and 2) won't spoons be safer?
Oh, the hilarities of CK2 are usually pretty well attested in history But as for the brotherly plotting, I mean, they are Russians when all is said and done. Or Norseman living in the Rus, which is surely much the same. I mean, have you ever read Simon Sebag Montefiore's book The Romanovs about what Russian royal families got up to after they became civilised! It is a great read, and I recommend it.
I couldn’t wait to comment on this thread until the Thing! Rurik’s kids could end up like the Ragnarrssons at this rate! Thanks for the recommendation.
Oh yes. I took Russian History. I remember how many Princes "fell" on their own daggers. At once point I asked the teacher 1) why they were given daggers and 2) won't spoons be safer?
And they have reinvented/perfected the doctrine of implausible denial to try to explain it all away. All they were trying to do was boost tourism in Salisbury ...
I can't let a mention of bloody and fratricidal medieval Russian history go by without mentioning my personal favorite figure of the era, Saint Olga of Kiev. I won't spoil it here just in case Bullfilter decides to do a spotlight on her himself, but I feel that she's one of the few real-world historical figures who basically "won" CK2.
Other thoughts: Guess its a good thing for young Dyre that Rurik isn't a "survival of the fittest" kind of parent! From a gameplay perspective though it can be nice to have some excess sons weeded out, especially in gavelkind, where it may let your primary heir get more land.
In this case, I was tempted along these lines – but with Eilif! Dyre looks like he will be a bit of a star when he matures. Eilif is a bit underwhelming. But I’ll let him continue in charge of the Band for now: he could always be replaced and either be sent somewhere or have an … accident!
I can't let a mention of bloody and fratricidal medieval Russian history go by without mentioning my personal favorite figure of the era, Saint Olga of Kiev. I won't spoil it here just in case Bullfilter decides to do a spotlight on her himself, but I feel that she's one of the few real-world historical figures who basically "won" CK2.
Ooh, I’ll have to look her up when I get the chance.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch54 Q1: Prosperity Boost.Is there a set amount or some way to determine what the quantum of the ‘prosperity boost’ following the success of the Realm Prosper ambition? And is it just a temporary thing, or a permanent thing? If temporary, how long does it last for?
A long read, actually, but there's this mechanism where each province has a hidden "prosperity" score and this goes up (peace, having a city, being coastal, not being tribal etc) and down (war, being besieged, raided etc). When this is over certain thresholds (100/250/500) it jumps up a level where are positive modifiers (Local tax modifier, Levy reinforce rate,Local revolt risk, Supply limit, Local build cost modifier, Local build time modifier, Disease resistance) and chance of positive events (see below).
Code:
A crown focus province that already has a high prosperity level is eligible for special events. These events are more frequent with high stewardship and learning skills.
At prosperity level 2, a province with a different culture can be converted at the cost 100% of your yearly income. It also converts the province's religion and removes the nomad agitation modifier, if relevant.
At prosperity level 3, a new settlement slot can be created for 250% of yearly income.
At prosperity level 3, various positive modifiers can be added to the province:
Bonus (Requirements)
Jewish Settlement +25% city tax (Christian, Zoroastrian or Muslim; no "Expelled the Jews" modifier; no "Minority Settlement" modifier (in the province))
Minority Settlement +25% city tax (not Christian, Zoroastrian or Muslim; no "Jewish Settlement" modifier (in the province))
Glorious Monument +0.5 Prestige
Merchant Harbor +50% galleys (province is coastal)
Scholar Foundation +0.03 military tech points, +0.03 cultural tech points, +0.03 economic tech points
Great Library +25% technology spread rate
Center of worship +0.25 Piety, +25% temple tax
Logging Company -15% build cost -15% build time (province terrain is forest or jungle)
Ore Mine +10% tax-10% build cost (province terrain is mountain)
Regimental Ground +15% levy
and this is how to increase it:
Code:
The ambition to Obj see realm prosper 5.png "See the Realm Prosper":
Enables some flavor events that increase prosperity
If peace is successfully maintained for 5 years, the ambition succeeds and adds 35 points to every eligible province in the entire realm (not just demesne!)
Councilors can increase prosperity:
Certain job actions add 6 points when successful:
Marshal: train troops
Steward: oversee construction
Spymaster: study technology
Spiritual: advance cultural technology
Passive Job flavour events for council members:
Any councilor with 12+ skill and Smart can trigger a "good at job" event
Marshal or steward with 15+ skill can offer to improve capital
Many peacetime decisions increase prosperity:
Most feasts and festivals add 8 points
A completed tournament adds 15 points
Several Dlc icon the old gods.png Old Gods Ancestor Worship Events increase prosperity
Other events:
A fleet returning with loot adds 12 points in your capital. Limited to once every 5 years (unless you change capital).
Several DLC icon Way of Life.png events from Way of Life, with the Business focus
Random opportunity to perform charity, if you have a province with a Hospital
Random opportunity to invest in provincial apothecaries, if you have a Court Physician
When a Master Engineer improves your demesne province, prosperity also increases.
So what I understand is every province we had just had 35 point increase, but depending on other factors that might ot might not have carried some of them over the next threshold. Mind you, I never knew about this mechanism until now so this is just me reading, copying and commenting about the wiki entry which seems substantial.
Super helpful, thanks mate! So that Realm Prosper ambition isn’t a bad one for a backwoods tribal realm such as mine, I’m thinking. And you can always raid when at ‘peace’.
Diskoerekto above me handled this one well, but I have a couple things to add. The disease resistance that prosperity gives is a negative modifier (making disease more likely, probably due to the increased number of people, etc.). Also, prosperity can be lost by being sieged in wars, or having a massive plague (neither is an instant loss of prosperity).
Interesting re disease – but is logical. Trade from the increased prosperity, I imagine. I’m hoping I don’t get too much of the latter but presume it must be inescapable if you keep playing long enough!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch54 Q2: Build War Chest (technical).Per Rurik’s questions, one only gets to levy a temporary ‘war tax’ if you succeed in accumulating 700 gold in the treasury first? And no matter how long it takes you to get to that 700 gold objective, the ‘war tax’ can only be levied until the date specified? Meaning the quicker it is achieved, the longer the benefit is accrued for?
I'm thinking it gives the date the bonus would be active for if it was completed today. I wouldn't think achieving it quicker would mean benefiting it longer but that's just my train of thought, no first hand experience about it.
Ch54 Q3: Build War Chest (advice).I don’t think it likely (even if Rurik lives for years yet) that he would want to bother a serious attempt on this one anyway. I’m more likely to want to spend it on improvements or building up the Novgorodian Band. Though, if people thought it worth pursuing, I could concentrate on improvements that use prestige and bank raid proceeds for a while.
Given Rurik's age I am not sure that a potentially longer-term ambition like the War Chest is necessarily worth it, but I must confess I don't know the technical aspects.
I mean if there's no harm in selecting the focus but not completing it, you can just select it and if some fortunate amount of gold appears, it will get completed. Although as you said it isn't the best idea to form the core of strategy based on this. If there's a good opportunity by spending some, just go ahead
The build war chest objective is quite useful if you want to save up money to hire some mercs and launch a war (the 10% tax boost helps sustain this), or perhaps do some serious feudal build-up, since that will pay for a new castle holding. In your particular case, I should also mention that while gavelkind will split up your land, it will NOT split up your gold. It may be a good idea to set up your primary heir with a large chest of funds, although any remaining duration of tax boost does not carry over; it dies with Rurik.
Good advice – so I should expend prestige but hoard money as the end for Rurik approaches. Sounds a bit like RL superannuation/ retirement benefits!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch54 Q4: Mari Claim and Similar.So, I think I’ve assembled and read the information correctly here and it seems to jibe with previous advice along these lines: this would just be fighting a war for someone else’s benefit, I believe. But not having fought a claim war yet, just thought I’d use this as a bit of a test case. If it had been in the de jure Russia Empire, would I have been able to claim that over Kya to make him a vassal? Or does that only work if you’re the Emperor already? I tested this by looking at current CBs against Dyre of Könugarðr, which is mainly in the de jure Russian Empire, and the only claim CB that came up was for Mozhaysk, which is just de jure Rus/Garðariki. And finally, I’m assuming if Mari had been in the de jure Rus/Garðariki kingdom (of which I’m already the ruler), I could have claimed Kya as a vassal).
I think all your interpretations here are correct, and since you're not the empire already, even if that province was in the de jure empire of Rus, I think he'd just not be your vassal.
Hmm, OK, I’ll bear that possibility in mind even if I don’t pursue at this time. I had thought I’d be setting him up as an independent High Chief if I took it for him given it’s outside my de jure kingdom. I guess even if it did stay with him and him under me, it could slip outside my control again depending on the next Mari succession (ie it could go to a non-vassal of mine)?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch54 Q5: Future Options.Following on from last time, the initial thinking leans towards expansion into southern Finland to start tidying up that map. There is a total of four different small realms that can be conquered, depending on how long it may take a Finnish defensive pact to form – and how much such a pact would be a credible deterrent. Narva in Estonia is another option. Könugarðr would be good to start chipping away at, but things need to resolve a little there before it will be practical – there’s just nothing useful on offer right now. Mari is a possibility, especially if I want to take Saksa down a peg. Though it could be more protracted than we want at the moment. There are no easy coastal pickings in Norway or Sweden: they are all owned by one of the ‘big three’ Viking realms – except perhaps for Sapmi, a Finnish High Chiefdom at the top of the Gulf of Bothnia. Perm or other Empire gains will be looked at in the mid-term - probably after the succession, whenever that may come. But readers may think differently, so I welcome any thoughts – whether on broad strategy, sequencing, timing or more tactical considerations.
Except for the Ostlandet holy site, the rest belong to realms which we'll have non agression pacts (royal marriages) for the next 2 generations if I'm not mistaken, and for to create the empire, you'll need Perm territory sooner or later. But still, of course no harm in getting close to the holy sites. Just make sure not to have 51% of the territory of any single de jure kingdom. So for example in the Satakunta/Karelia/Estonia/Livonia (which make up the de jure kingdom of Finland) we can have 5 more counties safely. This means 1 Estonian, 2 Satakuntan and 2 Karelian counties, the minimum amounts to usurp/create the duchy level titles. One more county though, and during a succession the kingdom of Finland will get auto created and go to Eilif of all people
Yes, am aware of the NAPs, decided it would take some time to want to attack them anyway. Good warning re this kingdom-forming issue under Gavelkind. Until I can either get rid of Gavelkind or form an Empire. Neither of which will be for a while yet – as you note below.
Taking from my comment just above, both the empire and religious reforms are a long way ahead (but I think relforms might be further) so you can go with either at the moment although my personal preference would've been empire just to be safer during future successions. Does Saksa share the religion of those Finns? If not that would be awesome as when one forms a pact you can go attack the other way. As I said just above, as long as you keep cautious about how many counties you hold from each de jure kingdom, you're safe.
If the Finland first approach gets the green light, I'd pick Uusimaa first, Suomi second, any random Karelia county 3rd. In the next round Narva first, another random Karelia county second. Thus, you can have 3 more Jarldoms picking the richest counties (I guessed the richest, you can check which holdings you like better) and not risk auto creation of the Finland kingdom. Beware though, one more country and it's twilight zone.
In between these 2 rounds waiting for the truce to run out, you can go attack Latgale. They're (I guess) a different religion (the only Romuvan neighbour we have I guess?) so will not contribute to forming of a coalition and a different kingdom so from that general area (de jure kingdom of Lithuania) we can have like 8 counties before risking the succession. So in between the 2 Finnish rounds you can attack first Latgale, then Courland, then whoever is in its immediate west... I cannot see clearly but there're like 3-4 realms there at least so in one round 3-4 counties can be added. I'm thinking by then the dog vomit would be calmer and we can start nibbling at that.
So long story short among all the de jure kingdoms around, we can have 5 Finnish, 8 Lithuanian (and 2 Sapmian, yes that's a 5 province kingdom in itself, if Finnmark is not part of Norway as I think it is, than 7 province kingdom so 3 allowed) provinces before we have to start expanding either into dog vomit or Perm or Mari.
I will check re Saksa, but I think he is Suomi, like the Finns. Interesting observation re Latgale: I’ll have a look, but at the moment they have a large army (event troops, being used to subdue Könugarðr). While I could attack Saksa and take a province off him, it could take quite a while to generate the warscore to make him surrender. Whereas the little one-, two- and maybe three-county realms will be quicker and easier to pick off. And inch me further west, for the next generation or two to realise those anbitions. And then either something north or in Könugarðr (once it settles a bit) to further Imperial ambitions.
I think going after the Estonia option is wise, as it positions you better towards the holy sites. If you are fully truced out with your westward enemies, I'd consider eating some of that dog's mess before looking eastwards. East is just more steppes, while the south is home to some nice land, even if it is a bit messy right now.
Again, good points. The only eastern bits I’ll be interested in taking are those in the current de jure kingdom or the future empire. The three mari border provinces are in that – the Mari claim is outside both. To my east, I really only want meat-shields, whether allied or not (NAPs maybe – I don’t want to get dragged into any of their fights by default). Especially for when the Mongols come! I also want some richer lands or even access to a trade route in years to come. One can dream.
Yes, that would be the best reason for hitting them. I’ll see what happens with the Pechenegs first (don’t think that will take long). But I think I can afford to wait with them for a bit. They may well implode all by themselves!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Thanks everyone for your support and advice – always appreciated, particularly useful this time around and new directions are pondered. Will now play the next session and start the episode generation process.
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Chapter 55: A Baltic Holiday (31 July – 31 December 888)
Chapter 55: A Baltic Holiday (31 July – 31 December 888)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … The Raiders return with treasure and fame and the realm prospers – which means the time for more Blood and Battle approaches: but where? King Dyre’s situation goes from bad to worse as he concedes territory to some of his tormentors and is prey to the rest; High Chief Yazi of the Pecheneg is certain to be subjugated by Saksa the Monster of Mari: will the betrothal of Rurik’s daughter Iliana to Yazi’s brother Bayça still be honoured?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
July-August 888
With the advice of the Þing held earlier that day being considered by Rurik, night fell on the last day of July 888 CE. He decided to hold off on a strike against Saksa of Mari – a Suomenusko co-religionist with most of the rest of the region. His many vassal allies boosted his troop strength well above the 1,300-plus he commanded personally. And that war against Yazi would soon be over, meaning he would not be distracted. Another time, Rurik thought.
The Þing had also canvassed a possible attack on Chief Narvait of Latgale – a pagan Romuvan. But his large army of conquest was still mustered as he fought an easy war against Dyre of Könugarðr – over 3,000 men under arms. Too much like an even fight – maybe in the future, was Rurik’s assessment.
“I think I will heed the advice of a number of those at the Þing today and finally take Narva. The boy High Chief Vandemeel of Estonia has some extra troops still under arms to augment his demesne levies, Rurik mused, "but we can take him easily enough. Though I will wait a little to see what happens to the Pechenegs."
A week later, an interesting snippet came in from the south where two of his vassals were conducting their border wars on Dyre – both for the county of Mozhaysk, which now pitted the interests of the powerful Jarl Tyueykezhut of Yaroslavl against those of the odious Chief Gradimir of Tver. Gradimir’s war was going very well for someone with under 300 troops in the field – he had now taken Roslavl from Dyre as well. Tyueykezhut was besieging Moramar. But one of Dyre’s vassals was trying to retake Mozhaysk for his liege – that could get interesting if it succeeded. The two may end up fighting like a couple of seagulls over a beached fish!
The next day, 7 July, Yazi finally conceded to Saksa, bending the knee and thus acknowledging the subjugation of the Pechenegs to the Monster. Which at least forced the Bulgarians to break off their Holy War.
The Chancellor was asked for a report on what this meant for young Chief Bayça and his betrothal to Iliana.
“My Liege, young Bayça has just recently come of age. He retains his Chiefdom of Saray and claims on two other Pecheneg counties and two High Chiefdoms. And he remains heir to the Yazi, who is now simply Chief of Lower Volga.”
“I see. And how has Bayça turned out now he is a man?”
“Well sire, he is not the smartest young man doing the rounds. But strangely, by all accounts he is most personable and has great powers of diplomacy and persuasion. But has no idea at all how to manage money. He is trying to improve his hunting skills, which is a noble and manly pursuit.”
“It could be worse. Saksa will probably get killed by rivals at some point. Bayça could still prove useful at some point. We shall let the betrothal run for now.”
“Helgi,” said Rurik as he turned towards his son. “We will leave Saksa for another day. It will be war on Estonia, to seize Narva. Muster the levies to Ingria: just our demesne contingents and the new Housecarl Company. That should be easily enough.”
“At once, father.”
It was almost three weeks before an enemy army was detected in Narva. It was in fact the main body of troops from Kaleva[the levy plus the remaining ‘event troops']. They were marching on Pskov – a bold attacking move. For which Rurik intended to punish them severely.
“Can our Pskovan company get out in time?”
“Yes, father. No need to disperse them before they are ambushed. They will join Þorsteinn in Ingria ten days before the Estonians arrive.”
“Good. They will return this effrontery with interest, in due course.”
As these manoeuvres played out and the main Garðarikian army slowly gathered from across the realm, the venerable Chancellor made a report on Saksa’s efforts to manage his newly expanded realm.
“My liege, a few weeks back it seems the deposed former High Chief Yazi – now styled the Count of Lower Volga – formed an independence faction within the Mari realm.”
“Hah – he will need good luck with that!”
“Indeed, sire. But today we heard that Saksa has made young Chief Bayça ‘Master of the Bow’, quite a prestigious court appointment. It seems Saksa is not without a degree of subtlety and diplomacy. He seeks to divide the brothers to shore up his newly acquired position in Pecheneg.”
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
September 888
Hrörekr sent a follow-up note – conveniently included in Gumarich der Schreiber’s records of the period – on 11 September saying Saksa had made Yazi his Champion. No doubt another attempt to help calm down an otherwise very irate ex-High Chief. The same day more significant news arrived: the Estonians had reached Pskov and invested it. It was estimated the garrison could hold out for at least two months – which should be plenty of time for the progressing muster to finish and a relief force to be sent. Rurik could have sent Þorsteinn at that point but wanted a couple of almost-arrived contingents to join the main body and ensure a healthy advantage in numbers.
The next day, Iliana came of age and the question of her betrothal came to the fore. While Rurik loved her dearly, he had to admit she was no great prize in terms of her accomplishments and habits. She would be sent to do her duty in the wild steppes, if Bayça would have her. Which of course he would. Iliana left Nygarðr two days later, after the marriage proposal was confirmed and formally put again to the Pecheneg chief.
As Rurik waited for one more contingent to arrive from Holmgarðr, he received word from Helgi that High Chief Vandemeel had called up his one vassal – another child, Chief Piho – to join the war. To defend his own county of Narva. Rurik just laughed grimly to himself. If the expression ‘easy as taking candy from a child’ had been invented at that time, he probably would have been tempted to use it.
By 29 September Rurik judged sufficient strength had been mustered to march to the relief of Pskov. And attack an outnumbered Estonian army that had deprived itself of the advantage of a river defence. The ‘old firm’ of the three premier commanders took charge. There would be two roughly equal flank guards and a large central division, including the new Housecarl Retinue, still not yet at half their establishment strength. They were due to arrive in Pskov on 18 October, while the newly mustered Narvaian levy would reinforce their main army first on 5 October.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
October 888
“Helgi, I see young Hakon has turned twelve and needs a focus for his education. Did you have something in mind?”
“Yes father, he shows most promise in military matters. His, ah, homely features will make no difference on the battlefield! His early traits are mixed for any option we may choose. But I would suggest martial training.”
“I agree. Maybe he will make a good commander or even Marshal one day. Let him study war.”
“While I have you, father, Þorsteinn sends word that Narvaian contingent has halted its march to reinforce the main Estonian army in Pskov and now holds in Narva. I’d say they have seen what is coming for the High Chief’s forces and have decided to stay behind the river and wait.”
“They will hang together or hang separately. Odin will have them all in the end.”
Not all action in the realm was on the battlefield. The signs of prosperity in the home county were now there for all to see.[As you can see, the development stats for Holmgarðr are now looking quite impressive for this region too – I hope that starts spreading a bit.]
Ch55 Q1: County Prosperity Event.Most of this has been covered at the last Þing or two, but I did have one small question. The prosperity event (symbolised here by the sheaf of wheat, which I’ve moused-over for the description): does it have a finite time span, or is that now a base level Holmgarðr has achieved that will hold or improve over time – unless one of the mentioned disasters befalls it?
In the messy Könugarðr border wars, Mozhaysk is back in Dyre’s control; but not for long by the looks of it. The Jarl of Yaroslavl has it besieged, which gives Tyueykezhut the chance he was waiting for to prosecute his own claim on the county. Conversely, Gradimir’s plans have been dealt a heavy blow. Meanwhile, Chief Narvait of Latgale looks like he is approaching the point where he may soon be able to enforce his claim on Pallteskja.
On 18 October, Þorsteinn’s host reached Pskov and began what would become known to history as the Battle of Ostrov. The enemy had put its main strength on their left flank: although not commanded by an officer of note, it outnumbered Chief Hrolfr on the Garðarikian right, who would have to hold on until Þorsteinn’s central division smashed the enemy’s centre. Which with the damage they could generate should not take too long.
As the battle progressed, on 20 October other militarily relevant events were occurring back home. First, the new weaponsmith in Ladoga was completed. But while he was looking at the report, King Rurik noticed a small annotation he had not noticed or looked into before. Helgi was asked to explain it.
Which he soon did. A closer inspection showed this applied to all Rurik’s demesne counties: it related to the recruiting of the Novgorodian Band.
Ch55 Q2: Home-grown Mercenary Recruitment.OK, hadn’t realised this would happen when raising a mercenary band, but it seems logical enough. Those troops aren’t ‘free’ after all. I do have a few questions of detail though.
2a) It says ‘refill’. Does that mean if the Band reaches full strength (whatever that might be), this factor comes off? Unless it falls back under that strength? 2b) Per above, is there some way of knowing what the final full establishment strength of the Novgorodian Band will be? The extant ones seem to vary. 2c) Does the number and size of the recruiting pools the Band is drawing on determine the rate of filling, or is it just an arbitrary rate? To put it another way, would it make any difference if it was only taking recruits from a smaller number of demesne counties, for example after Helgi inherits and much of Rurik’s current demesne goes to the brothers?
Having been given cause to review the development of the Band, Rurik decided to make a small investment in its improvement. Given the options available, he decided to train some of the light warriors into true heavy infantry. He would have liked some heavy cavalry, but that was not possible as this was a ‘foot only’ force.
In the Battle of Ostrov (Pskov), the period through to the beginning of November saw some rapid progress. After four days of fighting, with the initial skirmishing phase still not over, Hrolfr’s right flank was slowly losing ground in the face of superior numbers. On the left, Sverker enjoyed a significant advantage in numbers and was pressing his opponent back. In the centre, Þorsteinn’s great numerical edge – which included the new Royal Housecarl Company - was easily crushing his counterpart.
Two days later the enemy’s centre broke and Þorsteinn immediately swung his main body to flank the enemy’s left and relieve Hrolfr, who was in a little trouble. By 30 October, an all-out melee was initiated across the lines. This quickly turned the battle into a rout for the Estonians, with Þorsteinn’s division inflicting horrendous casualties as they drove their advantage home. By 1 November the two remaining enemy flanks had broken and the pursuit began.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
November-December 888
In the final analysis, the Battle of Ostrov was a crushing victory. Garðarikian casualties were relatively low and mainly felt in the light infantry of Hrolfr’s right flank division. The enemy had fled in a shattered retreat, leaving hundreds dead on the battlefield. The remainder would be pursued relentlessly.
While Þorsteinn followed up his victory towards Narva, the remaining levy contingents in Ingria were put under the command of Snorri and sent to the same place. As December turn icy cold, the war now moved into the offensive phase for Garðariki.
In Könugarðr, Tyueykezhut had seized his chance and now owned Mozhaysk. It was Gradimir’s turn to be unhappy – but what would he do about it? What could he do about it?
Mid-December found Þorsteinn in Narva – while the rallied Estonian army had linked up with the Narvaian levy to attempt a defence of their capital, Kaleva. Rather than begin a siege of Narva or even wait for Snorri, Þorsteinn wasted no time in heading to confront the enemy in what he planned to be the final blow to their chances of recovering. The Estonians’ morale was already poor: this fresh news must have filled them with dread. Though they gamely stood their ground.
“My Liege,” said Chancellor Hrörekr as he shuffled into the king’s presence. “We have received a letter from your son-in-law, Grimr of Smaleskja. He has decided to try to grab his piece of Dyre’s realm as well!”
“Good for him! The fact my vassals are pecking away at Dyre’s sorry bones means I can focus my efforts elsewhere and still see the realm expanded.”
Þorsteinn fell upon the hapless Estonians on 28 December. But their morale was already looking shaky even as the battle began. This time, they had reinforced their centre heavily. But the centre was still outnumbered by almost three-to-one as the Russian Viking horde had at them with a rich repertoire of blood-curdling war cries.
Three days later – the last day of the year – the enemy’s right had already broken, with Sverker turning his attentions to the enemy centre, already under heavy pressure from Þorsteinn’s fierce and well-armed division. The day before, Snorri had arrived in Narva – only to find he didn’t quite have enough men to properly besiege the keep. He would have to wait until the battle in Kaleva finished and Þorsteinn could send him a company or two to make up the numbers.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Questions
Ch55 Q1: County Prosperity Event.Most of this has been covered at the last Þing or two, but I did have one small question. The prosperity event (symbolised here by the sheaf of wheat, which I’ve moused-over for the description): does it have a finite time span, or is that now a base level Holmgarðr has achieved that will hold or improve over time – unless one of the mentioned disasters befalls it?
Ch55 Q2: Home-grown Mercenary Recruitment.OK, hadn’t realised this would happen when raising a mercenary band, but it seems logical enough. Those troops aren’t ‘free’ after all. I do have a few questions of detail though.
2a) It says ‘refill’. Does that mean if the Band reaches full strength (whatever that might be), this factor comes off? Unless it falls back under that strength? 2b) Per above, is there some way of knowing what the final full establishment strength of the Novgorodian Band will be? The extant ones seem to vary. 2c) Does the number and size of the recruiting pools the Band is drawing on determine the rate of filling, or is it just an arbitrary rate? To put it another way, would it make any difference if it was only taking recruits from a smaller number of demesne counties, for example after Helgi inherits and much of Rurik’s current demesne goes to the brothers?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
It seems King Dyre the False-God Worshipper is now at the mercy of any minor neighbour who wants to forcibly mow his grass for him. It all started with that disastrous Holy War against Saksa the Monster. He has now left his once-proud Germanic kingdom open to the crows and vultures that circle it. Mighty Odin continues to crap on his eiderdown! Or is it Loki?
"All of you, come and get your pound of flesh, why don’t you? Bloody carrion crawlers!"
[A fond nod there to the old days of pencil-and-paper D&D, when it was a new thing. And didn’t have an ‘A’ in front of it!]
Note:I’ve left it there at year’s end for this chapter, though I played the session through until the conclusion of the war with Estonia. Tomorrow is Rurik’s birthday (1 January): I’m sure you all wish him well! 22 game years have now elapsed since Rurik took his first steps on his Leaner’s Saga!
Ch55 Q1: County Prosperity Event.Most of this has been covered at the last Þing or two, but I did have one small question. The prosperity event (symbolised here by the sheaf of wheat, which I’ve moused-over for the description): does it have a finite time span, or is that now a base level Holmgarðr has achieved that will hold or improve over time – unless one of the mentioned disasters befalls it?
It's permanent. It will stay until something removes it.
Note that if a county suffers depopulation from an epidemic, that will erase all prosperity (it's essentially anti-prosperity).
As a side note, if your crown focus county is at max prosperity, you might get events that let you spend money to apply a permanent buff to the province, such as increased levy size or tech rate (and of course, the elusive extra holding slot). As far as I know, these will never disappear.
Ch55 Q2: Home-grown Mercenary Recruitment.OK, hadn’t realised this would happen when raising a mercenary band, but it seems logical enough. Those troops aren’t ‘free’ after all. I do have a few questions of detail though.
2a) It says ‘refill’. Does that mean if the Band reaches full strength (whatever that might be), this factor comes off? Unless it falls back under that strength? 2b) Per above, is there some way of knowing what the final full establishment strength of the Novgorodian Band will be? The extant ones seem to vary. 2c) Does the number and size of the recruiting pools the Band is drawing on determine the rate of filling, or is it just an arbitrary rate? To put it another way, would it make any difference if it was only taking recruits from a smaller number of demesne counties, for example after Helgi inherits and much of Rurik’s current demesne goes to the brothers?
a) It will remain, presumably to replace attrition losses and replace retirees. It will go away once you stop supporting that band.
b) The starting size is determined by your total levies when you create it. It should be at max when first established. You can of course increase the size using character interactions, but if it's too high noone will be able to afford them.
c) I'm not entirely certain here but from my experience the replenishment is a set percentage of the max size each month, regardless of other factors.
The Þing had also canvassed a possible attack on Chief Narvait of Latgale – a pagan Romuvan. But his large army of conquest was still mustered as he fought an easy war against Dyre of Könugarðr – over 3,000 men under arms. Too much like an even fight – maybe in the future, was Rurik’s assessment.
To make myself clear, I nominated them to fight after we take one province each from 3 Finnish realms and waiting for the truces to run out, I guess by then his war will be over and prestige troops disappear.
“Well sire, he is not the smartest young man doing the rounds. But strangely, by all accounts he is most personable and has great powers of diplomacy and persuasion. But has no idea at all how to manage money. He is trying to improve his hunting skills, which is a noble and manly pursuit.”
well, at least dullness is not inheritable like its cousin slowness so any kids will be free of that and (if I can make the icon right) his ambitiousness offsets that somewhat. he's a charitable tengrist gray eminence and a heir. good call to keep the bethrotal if you ask me.
“Helgi,” said Rurik as he turned towards his son. “We will leave Saksa for another day. It will be war on Estonia, to seize Narva. Muster the levies to Ingria: just our demesne contingents and the new Housecarl Company. That should be easily enough.”
Ch55 Q1: County Prosperity Event.Most of this has been covered at the last Þing or two, but I did have one small question. The prosperity event (symbolised here by the sheaf of wheat, which I’ve moused-over for the description): does it have a finite time span, or is that now a base level Holmgarðr has achieved that will hold or improve over time – unless one of the mentioned disasters befalls it?
Yes, unless something negative happens such as a hostile siege or disease, this will stay. If more positive things happen it might even reach the next tier.
Ch55 Q2: Home-grown Mercenary Recruitment.OK, hadn’t realised this would happen when raising a mercenary band, but it seems logical enough. Those troops aren’t ‘free’ after all. I do have a few questions of detail though. 2a) It says ‘refill’. Does that mean if the Band reaches full strength (whatever that might be), this factor comes off? Unless it falls back under that strength? 2b) Per above, is there some way of knowing what the final full establishment strength of the Novgorodian Band will be? The extant ones seem to vary. 2c) Does the number and size of the recruiting pools the Band is drawing on determine the rate of filling, or is it just an arbitrary rate? To put it another way, would it make any difference if it was only taking recruits from a smaller number of demesne counties, for example after Helgi inherits and much of Rurik’s current demesne goes to the brothers?
Ch55 Q1: County Prosperity Event.Most of this has been covered at the last Þing or two, but I did have one small question. The prosperity event (symbolised here by the sheaf of wheat, which I’ve moused-over for the description): does it have a finite time span, or is that now a base level Holmgarðr has achieved that will hold or improve over time – unless one of the mentioned disasters befalls it?
It is a delicate flower that will probably get cut down at some point by disease or war or something but yes, technically you can keep it for the rest of the game if you can protect it.
As for the mercs, have a look at their wiki page again and come back. Should explain all but briefly:
It'll leave when the army refills.
The troops aren't free cos you have to keep supplying them (as i said before) but they are still a very useful mechanic for small population realms and those concentrsted on making money not armies.
They are limited not by pop but buildings and various other things. Basically they are limited by your cash and infrastructures rather than manpower.
