Blut und Schlacht (Blood and Battle): A Learner’s Saga

[Locklen]

What @Rufy_King just pointed out is also important when selecting mercs. For example, check out the Finnish Band - he costs more than the Sami Band by ten coins and a higher monthly cost. Now it could be because he has a 100 more men. But ALSO HALF of that is Heavy Cavalry and half of that is Archers. While the Sami Band is just Archers. So look at your own armies and buy the Mercenary bands NOT just to increase your numbers but to strengthen your military where you need it. Elephants are best of course. Never go wrong with elephants. OR in your case I believe your Special Troops are Mounted Archers - the arrow/horse symbol to the left of the boats - check out the Cuman Band.

Only the victual brothers merc group in his pic has heavy cavalry. Several of them do have light cavalry however.

 

[markkur]

This is coming along nicely! Of course I expected no less.

 

[Eurasia]

Only the victual brothers merc group in his pic has heavy cavalry. Several of them do have light cavalry however.

Ohh, you're right, I looked at the wrong number.

 

[Bullfilter]

So, having just arrived back yesterday from a work trip and updated my other AAR, will answer correspondence here then sit down to play out and write up the next chapter, where the clock will actually start to tick. Because I have designed this as a learning AAR (and because it's polite too), I will do this in part to summarise advice received in between chapters and also just to say thanks for commenting.

It looks to me like the only thing missing is an overview of potential upgrades to the already existing tribal holdings (and the temple, but the return/gold ratio wont be as good since you do not directly hold it). This is how you make what holdings you already have give you more stuff.

Also to elaborate on that inheritance issue, it WILL work as you think here, because A.) There is no kingdom/imperial law preventing it, and B.) The title hes inheriting is a count level title while you have a ducal level. If he were inheriting a title equal to or greater than your own, (ducal level), his land would leave you. Needless to say that is a bad thing.

On a sillier note, shy/wroth can be thought of as a guy who shies away from contact with others since he tends to explode on them.

Yes, this plus some other advice received earlier will help me through the initial upgrade question. Some aspects I wasn't yet familiar with, others I was going to be too expansive about re improving vassal's holdings (who I'd thought to protect from potential raids by building forts, but the common wisdom seems to be vassals can be more dangerous than foreign enemies, which actually makes sense. Thanks also for explaining that inheritance aspect. It is in fact a fundamental learning point, so I appreciate it and hope other newbies do too.

<re shy + wroth characteristics>Or somebody who usually keeps to themselves and tends to get irritated when people bother them, also

Nice rationalisation!

My, I wish I had this AAR when I started playing this game, it would have saved me a lot of derping it seems.

It's a win-win for me: I get some help figuring out the game and also hope it can provide pointers for others, whether learning or (later on) honing some of the finer points of the game, perhaps discussions of different strategies and approaches, etc. So long as I don't get wiped out too quickly, it should progress slowly but steadily beyond the 'grasshopper/young paduan learner' stage

However, I will offer my knowledge on the ways of CrusaderKings here. So:

To clarify how the battle system work, since you asked about the chavalry and its usefulness, you have to consider five factors.
The numbers of course are a key point.
The commanders skill and traits (you can set three commanders, one per side. The higher their martial ability, the better. BUT you have also to check their minor traits. For example, the unyielding trait you noted in one of your neighbours gives him defensive boosts, so it would be wiser to try and meet him forcing him on the attack);
The terrain-weather mechanics. And remember that the weather alone, in your future expansions, will keep growing more and more important since you are so far in the north. You could lead your army to starvation with a wrong move, losing men while your enemy doesn't move a finger. The wisest thing to do is start the war in february/march, to use as much of the summer as possible. As for the terrain, hills and mountains give a defensive boost that can save you if you are slightly outnumbered (good days, when I led my enemies in attacking my outnumbered army on the Alps and watched them die first for the cold and then in the battle). Also, crossing rivers will give a defensive boost to the enemy on the other side. For example, attacking Yaroslavl could lead to your defeat if you charged directly through the river against his forces.
Troops morale. The morale is crucial. If you have an higher morale then your opponents, you can turn the tide in really funny ways. Remember that using the fleet to move troops will change their morale to half when they land.
And finally we come to the bulk of the battle system, the various kind of units. Essencially, you can divide the troop tipes in three major groups: archers, infantry and cavalry. Archers have a role in the first phase of the battle, the skirmish. The melee, the second phase, is where infantry shines, especially heavy and pikemen. And finally the pursue, where the cavalry, especially the lighter one, gives his best. Now this is usually an overlooked part of CK2 Warfare, but I can assure you that it ends up being important when you are in true need. Essentially, if you want a good start of the battle, dealing good damage to the enemy ranks before the bulk of the combat, make sure you have archers. If you want to be able to survive however, make sure that infantry is in place. And if you need the battle to end before the enemy reinforcements arrive, grab your horsemen.
Heavy cavalry is kind of the absolute best in terms of unit, since they deal a lot of damage in the Melee, are the best in the pursue except for the Light Cavalry and more importantly are absolutely the best defenders. BUT, they are extremely costly to maintain, so I would for now try to not get too many.

Thanks for all that - sounds very useful and hard-won knowledge. I will have to tuck it away and remember to come back to it when it comes time.

Well, I fill like I have ranted about the war mechanics way more then I should have, but I will give you one last advice.
Don't give too much power to any of your vassals.
Never.
Actually, the best way to keep them in check is causing them to be angry at each other.

Hmm, it seems one can't live with or without one's vassals! Thanks for all the advice.

What @Rufy_King just pointed out is also important when selecting mercs. For example, check out the Finnish Band - he costs more than the Sami Band by ten coins and a higher monthly cost. Now it could be because he has a 100 more men. But ALSO HALF of that is Heavy Cavalry and half of that is Archers. While the Sami Band is just Archers. So look at your own armies and buy the Mercenary bands NOT just to increase your numbers but to strengthen your military where you need it. Elephants are best of course. Never go wrong with elephants. OR in your case I believe your Special Troops are Mounted Archers - the arrow/horse symbol to the left of the boats - check out the Cuman Band.

Only the victual brothers merc group in his pic has heavy cavalry. Several of them do have light cavalry however.

Ohh, you're right, I looked at the wrong number.

Hmmm, will ponder further when it is time to start hiring.

This is coming along nicely! Of course I expected no less.

Thanks markkur, it's very nice to have an old friend on board .

Now, back to roll through a last bit of preparation and get the timer going ... and for Gumarich the Scribe to get his pen and vellum scrolls ready.

 

[Bullfilter]

Chapter 3: Odin’s Favour (1 January to 8 July 867)

“And young Prince Helgi must needs be prudent; giving freely while his father-king lives; so when older and fighting starts; he does have his companions steadfast with him; in admirable behaviour lies his path to power; and the respect of people everywhere.”​

Gumarich der Schreiber, 867 AD [Ed. paraphrased, with apologies to the later writer of Beowulf]​

Odin Allfather in the guise of the wandering pilgrim.​

Legal Considerations

It is still the First Day of 867. Late that evening, King Rurik wrote a letter to Chancellor Hrörekr, who is also the King’s Lawspeaker (he was at that time attempting to fabricate a claim on the County of Toropets). Researchers were lucky enough to find it in the scroll-trove of Holmgarđr. In it he set out the current laws of the realm and of obligations. The tables below set out the position at that time.

Rurik's request for advice touched a number of areas. In realm laws, his main option seemed to be to change from Minimal to Low Tribal Organisation, with the benefits and drawbacks identified in the figure above. As far as he could work out, vassal opinion would be adversely affected [going from a +5 bonus to a -5 penalty], but it would allow him to revoke titles and also be able to enforce Low Centralisation laws [though that also would require Legalism 1 cultural advance]. That in turn would allow him to increase his demesne holdings [+1], but would reduce the number of vassals he could effectively control [by 5: ie +10 to +5]. His current demesne size [2/7] was yet small and easy to control, so he did not believe that was a problem that needed fixing [ie. through an increase in Centralisation]. His current number of vassals [4/16] would be easy to control for some time yet, again not needing any fixing [and a decrease of 5 in the limit would not hurt currently].

With no real need for Low Centralisation laws at present (or the ability to impose them), he told Hrörekr the only reason for changing to Low Tribal Organisation now would be if he wished to revoke a title from one of his vassals. He may wish to in the future, but had no pressing need to do so now. And enforcing the law now could (by the negative effect on his vassal’s regard for him) actually hasten the need for its use, in a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts! He sought his Lawspeaker’s advice as to whether he had correctly interpreted this legal aspect and whether he had any advice on this matter for his King.

[Q1: Any views on current Tribal Organisation or future Centralisation legal matters welcome, including any laws that might be useful later one should strive for. The first option could be to aim for Legalism 1 as the first Cultural advance, but only if it would be worth it. There are others there that look like they could be more immediately useful.]​

King Rurik also sought counsel on the range of laws on various Obligations. Without going into detail on the raft of possible options, he simply sought Hrörekr’s advice on whether any of them needed changing. Finally, in looking through the laws of the realm, he kept encountering the same notation, in the fine print at the bottom of each law: “The council is not allowed to initiate voting for this type of law”. His last question to Hrörekr was to confirm whether this simply meant that only he, as King, could initiate a law change, or whether it meant something else (such as the option not being available at all, for some unfathomable reason). The King was not willing to initiate a change just to find out. He was not seeking to amend any laws immediately, but said he would make a decision in the summer and would be happy to receive a legal opinion in July that year.

[Q2: Should Vassal Obligations just be left at the default settings in force at game’s start, or are any of these worth changing for an early tribal society? I’m presuming the comment about councils not being able to initiate a law change means that sometimes they can, and separate to or even in defiance of their ruler. Is that right?]​

More Military Matters

If the cap doesn't fit ...?​

Here follows an excerpt from Gumarich’s working diary, which he kept to aid his writing of the Chronicle of the Rurikids, a task passed down by father to son or selected apprentice in the tradition of Holmgarđr scribes.

Good King Rurik hath his head full pained in thinking of Laws and Obligations. His pain was increased twice-fold when the young Prince Marshal Helgi did present, seeking advice on the raising of Personal Retinues.


“My King and Father”, the young Prince did ask his Liege, “I have spoken to Old Yurich, seeking to raise a Retinue for our coming campaigns and raiding. Yet his explanations have left me confused. It seems according to his reckoning that our retinue is limited to a cap of 63. Using the Shock retinue as an example, he explained to me that while we could afford the cost of 98g and the projected monthly maintenance of 17 silver [eg 0.17g], such a retinue would require a capacity of 700, which was well beyond our range. Looking through the list of other options, the least was a Skirmish retinue, which requires a cap of 550. These terms and numbers did blur my vision by their arcane nature.”


“So Father,” the young Prince Helgi continued. “Does this mean we mayn’t raise any retinue until these so-called caps have been attained? If this is so, Old Yurich told me that must be done by increasing the number of our holdings and by improving our Military Organisation through study. Should I pursue that ahead of improvements to the efficiency of our forces, siege equipment or shipbuilding?” At this, the furrow on King Rurik’s brow deepened and his eyes became a-crossed. He looked to his mead cup and drained it to the bottom.


“Good questions, my son,” the King did answer. “But my head aches from the problems of state. The day has been a long one. We will not be able to expand our holdings or improve our military learning for many months yet, or mayhap even longer. Let us consider these matters again in the summer. Seek advice from your commanders on these Retinues, which we have not yet employed in this realm and are beyond my ken. Perhaps you can find an adviser who hath heard of wisdom from other lands, to know their nature and value. For now, read well Wiki the Red’s tome on raiding. Come to me when you believe will be ready for our first raid and have worked out how to summon our vassals to support such an adventure. I have heard tell of a mysterious and arcane device - the ‘Raiding Toggle’ - which you as Marshal have custody. Perhaps it is a horn into which you must blow, or some such.”


At that Prince Helgi sought his Liege’s leave to retire, to read of raiding and search for ‘toggles’. I heard him mutter to himself that to him, a ‘toggle’ sounded more like a small faerie creature that lived under bridges, but perhaps Old Yurich would know where it was. A brand new 17 year old Marshal could hardly be expected to know where every obscure device and instrument was on the first day of his appointment!


Having granted his son leave to depart, the King sought the refuge of his own bedchamber. And the young Queen Ingjerđr, who – along with another jar of mead - would surely help to warm a very cold winter’s day!​

[Q3: any more advice – confirmatory or additional – on retinues welcome. Have I interpreted the basics correctly? Are they worth getting, in due course? Should it be an early priority, or set aside for a while to allow the basics to be looked after?]​

Diligent young Marshal that he was – and still waiting for his hoped-for bride to accept the invitation and arrive from far Man – Helgi quickly reviewed the current list of Commanders at the realm’s disposal.

Helgi’s written review of the realm's commanders was found among the trove of scrolls, so is available for us today. Other than himself [with a martial rating of 19] and the King [26], there are four commanders currently appointed. At the top of the list (naturally) is the ever-present Chief Svetozar of Luki! The other commanders are other Chiefs and the Godi Porolfr. None of them may be new Caesars, but a search of the list of other contenders showed only Steward Alfgeir had more military ability than those already serving, and not by much. Better perhaps not to create animosity by sacking a vassal to be replaced by someone who would only be a marginal improvement.

The next day, having awakened refreshed, Helgi went in search of the mysterious "Raiding Toggle" – and found it, hiding there in plain sight on his Marshal’s belt of office. It was a medallion when, affixed to a letter through the impression on a wax seal, would apparently legally summon the levies of their proud and otherwise recalcitrant vassals for the purpose of raiding!

But wait! His current assignment, given yesterday, to train troops in Holmgarđr county, would not finish until early July. Curses! And then, apparently it was not certain a raid would be mounted immediately. Well, at least he would have some time, as his father had foreseen, to study up on raiding, retinues and combat!

Nation Building

Gumarich also recorded Council considerations on building priorities for the young realm. The Kingdom’s Seer, Porolfr av Jämtland and Godi of Tikhvin temple (which lay in the home county of Holmgarđr), naturally wanted his holding improved. There was a range of choices available and he pointed out the treasury could afford it. Gumarich wrote the Godi “is an admirable figure; full of virtue; he was renowned throughout the kingdom as just; patient; humble and temperate. The Seer was recognised universally as a master of theology and the greatest supporter of the King among the vassals. Under tribal law, he was the only vassal who paid taxes to the realm and stood ready to provide liege levies whenever asked.”

But Gumarich also noted that others among the Council and diverse advisers and writers had imbued the King with great trepidation regarding the investment of resources in building the holdings of any vassal. If the others would not get such favouritism, then why should the Godi? King Rurik took this counsel reluctantly and denied Porolfr’s request; but did not do so finally but, giving a promise to reconsider the improvement of the Temple of Tikhvin at another point. Perhaps even in the coming summer.

[Q4: despite the almost universal advice about the dangers of enriching or empowering one’s vassals, does anyone believe in these circumstances some improvement to the Temple, even though held by a vassal, might be worth it? Some basic improvements for increasing tax and levy growth? Militia quarters or barracks to boost military strength? Or even starting a church town?]​

The King did however have an easier decision to make: he immediately started construction on forts for his two demesne counties, Holmgarđr and Ladoga. They would both be ready quickly (in three weeks, on 21 January) and cost only 20g each. A temple for Ladoga would cost a very large amount: 489g 50s [Ed. I’m going to use this designation of gold/silver to give a small amount of period flavour. I doubt too many decimal places were being used in early medieval Russia at this time]. Steward Alfgeir suggested its construction could perhaps be funded through some raiding, as building it now would make a significant dent in the coffers and not leave much for the emergency raising of mercenaries, for instance. Like all good treasurers, he did not like deficit budgeting, even if it was not so termed by tribal stewards during the ninth century!

[Q5: If a new temple is built on the ruler’s demesne, who is in charge of it? Does a Godi have to be appointed, as a vassal, or can it just be run direct by the King? It seems like a very large investment, but presumably can provide long term rewards. Is it a short or long-term ambition, at this early stage?]​

Culture and Religion

Just when King Rurik thought he may be able to escape the confines of his council chamber, the discussion of holy places had got the Seer talking about the importance of Religion and Culture to the Kingdom and its plans for future expansion. From the notes of the meeting made by Gumarich, two maps of the realm as it stood in 867 with regard to its religion and culture have been made.

All the kingdom was solidly Pagan, but of different variations. Historians have indicated a base colour for the prevailing county religion, while stripes indicate the ruler of the realm has a different religion, or at least ‘denomination' thereof. Hence grey (Germanic Pagan) stripes for the counties of the Kingdom of Holmgarđr: over Finnish Pagan green or Slavic Pagan beige.​

While the King is a ‘Germanic Pagan’ (which seemed to be the main religion of Denmark and Western Scandinavia – but not 'Germany' itself), the rest of the Kingdom (while Pagan) is made up of two different brands: of Suomenusko (or Finnish) Pagan and Slavic Pagan. To Rurik’s [Ed. that is, my] unschooled eye, the only practical difference between the two 'denominations' seemed to be in the name they gave the Gods. He wanted to know more about what the difference between these brands of the same general faith system were. And more pertinently, whether he need to do anything about it.

[Q6: Any 'enlightenment' (to borrow a word roughly in context) as to the significance of both religion and in this case its ethnic-based denominations would be useful. I’ve seen a few AARs pay it quite a bit of attention, but without necessarily explaining the importance or desirability of having it homogenous throughout a realm, or in harmony the with the religion of its ruler. In other words, does Rurik have a problem and should be be taking any action about the religious diversity in his realm?]​

The cultural make-up of the realm seemed to roughly match the religious characteristics, but was a little more diverse again. The majority culture is Russian/East Slavic. But Belo Ozero was Finnish/Finno-Ugric, while Ingria was Estonian/Finnish-Ugric. And, similarly to the religious overview, for the realm of Holmgarđr this is overlaid on this map (light blue/grey stripes in this case) with the Germanic culture of its ruler, Rurik.

While this was eventually explicable to the King by Seer Porolfr, Rurik did not really understand its significance, or whether he should aim over time to change either his own or the Kingdom’s cultural make-up. He wondered whether, given his long-term ambition of uniting a Great Kingdom of Rus, he should look to shape all its provinces into the Russian/Eastern Slavic mold. Or should he be showing them the glorious ways of his own Germanic heritage? And if so, how might he go about such shaping? He would defer these question to a later day, but if action was warranted and a long journey required, best it was started sooner rather than later.

[Q7: again, similar to religion, any basic thoughts or advice on culture most welcome.]​

Wealth

Steward Alfgeir, not to be outdone, then made observations about the relative wealth of the lands of the known world. His central message was that the lands around Holmgarđr were largely poor and backward. The home county’s tax revenue, while low, was actually higher than most other provinces in the near region. In essence, the lands of the former Roman Empire were largely very rich, as were those of the Arabic world and Persia. Far off India was patchy; most of the rest were in varying degrees of destitution. Constantinople seemed to dwarf even the next richest band of important cities, such as Alexandria, Venice, Medina, Mecca, Rome, Baghdad and other cities of similar wealth. Modern historians have produced a map showing the estimated distribution of wealth across the then ‘known world’ (as known to the Holmgarđian court of 867, anyway).

Estimated wealth in 867 AD: green is good, red is bad.​

[Q8: any major take-outs on the wider distribution of wealth for a petty kingdom in Holmgarđr’s starting position would be of interest.]​

Escape and Reward

By this time, Rurik’s head was aching with all the information his counsellors and advisers had provided. While many questions had been asked, many new ones had been raised. “By Odin’s Beard,” Gumarich recorded him as shouting across the Council Room. “Stop all these words! It may be colder than a Viking’s Heart outside, but I need the fresh air. I will go hunting. Helgi, send me a small group of trusty men and I will be off tomorrow.” The King strode out of the room, looking forward to the fresh – indeed, extremely fresh – air.

Gumarich’s next entry related a tale of wonder that would make a great impression on the King – a moral test which would force him to make a profound personal choice. On 6 January, the King had a mysterious encounter that presented him with three courses of action to choose from:

The King knew his men were watching and the tribe would hear of his reaction to this chance encounter – or was it just chance? Rurik thought it more like a test. And when he thought of the consequences, he knew as a Gods-fearing King in pursuit of the great prestige that would make him Exalted among men, he must strengthen his faith; put aside the simple manly pleasures of the hunt; and eschew the petty plotting and mean-spiritedness of the cynic. And his choice was justly rewarded – the well contained 100g, the Allfather’s reward for his new-found zealous faith. And as the story spread, so too did the King’s prestige among the common folk. He returned from the hunt “a happier, richer and more zealous chief.”

A Royal Marriage

The King was well pleased with Helgi’s marriage to a good Norse lass on 9 January 867. Jorunn seems very well disposed towards her new Liege, which is definitely a good thing! Helgi’s immediate ambition was to have a son: a wise choice for the heir to the realm. Only 10g to mount the wedding, with more prestige to be had for an image-driven King!

Fortifying the Heartland

By 21 January, the new forts in the demesne counties of Holmgarđr and Ladoga were complete. A couple of additional improvements are available. A decision on which to proceed with will be deferred until more advice can be sought. The King must decide whether to improve his defences or build market villages to boost income (which is low, as there are no known trade routes in any realm province). A trade post (as noted in a previous chapter) cannot be built, given that lack of trade routes and the basic tribal form of Holmgarđr's government. Perhaps a hillfort for the border province of Ladoga and a market village for the home county?

To Raid, or Not to Raid? That is the Question!

After the great surveys and reviews, a fateful meeting with Odin himself and a royal wedding all in the first few days of January, the following months passed uneventfully in the petty kingdom of Holmgarđr. A severe winter turned to balmy spring and then full summer. Helgi’s studies on raiding progressed and, as the months passed, Gumarich observed that “the Prince Marshal did often gaze at the Great Seal of Raiding; he did often hold it; his young mind’s eye did longingly coveted the glory and treasure of a raid; and his hand did alternately grip the Seal – fingers itching to affix it to letters of summons to the vassals - or the hilt of his sword for the adventure ahead.”

At last, it was early July. His first task done, he was ready to summon the tribal levies for a raid! But where should they strike? And by land or by sea? Far afield or close to home? For rich pickings (though such are distant from this poor realm) or to sap the strength of nearby potential conquest targets? This would be considered in a council of war.

[Ed. And so the third chapter of the Rurikid Blood and Battle Saga ends. There ended up being more preparatory work (and questions) than I had anticipated, as more arcane corners of CK2 became apparent from examining the game and reading a few more AARs. With these establishing chapters now out of the way, my intention if for future updates to be far shorter and event- or decision-based.]​

The Thing (or ‘þing’) is a Thing!

A Germanic thing, drawn after the depiction in a relief of the Column of Marcus Aurelius (193 CE).​

A ‘thing’ was the governing assembly of a northern Germanic society, made up of the free people of the community presided over by lawspeakers. The word appears in Old Norse, Old English, and modern Icelandic as þing (where þ is pronounced like unvoiced "th"). Today the term lives on in the English term hustings, in the official names of national legislatures and political and judicial institutions of Nordic countries and, in the Manx form tyn, as a term for the three legislative bodies on the Isle of Man [Ed. cited from Wikipedia].

Gumarich notes the concept, old in Germanic and Norse society, was revived at Rurik’s court by the arrival of Helgi’s new wife Jorunn, who told of its use on her native Isle of Man. Rurik has decided to employ regular meetings of the Thing to seek the advice of the wise from within and beyond the realm.

To aid any potential advisers, I have summarised the questions posed in this chapter below, for ease of response. I stress that I am not expecting commentAARs to address all or even any of these questions and none should feel obliged to offer opinions on all (though they’re welcome if you feel so motivated). You may have views or expertise on one or two you feel like sharing. Also, there may be different or additional views or even debate about some, especially if the area is one of opinion rather than simple fact.

And remember, while this firstly helps me play the game, the broader intention is to create a bit of an “applied learner’s guide” for people new to CK2 into the future, but immersed in a story and worked through. Thus, different to a wiki or strategy guide. Not universally applicable to all games or situations, but hopefully covering plenty of the basic concepts and processes that can be daunting and confusing for the hapless newbie (such as myself)!​

The Chancellor and Lawspeaker, Hrörekr, will welcome any advice proffered, though the King shall be the final arbiter on its application: no proto-democratic forms to be applied here!

Ch3, Q1: Any views on current Tribal Organisation or future Centralisation legal matters welcome, including any laws that might be useful later one should strive for. The first option could be to aim for Legalism 1 as the first Cultural advance, but only if it would be worth it. There are others there that look like they could be more immediately useful.

Ch3, Q2: Should Vassal Obligations just be left at the default settings in force at game’s start, or are any worth changing for an early tribal society? I’m presuming the comment about councils not being able to initiate a law change means that sometimes they can, and separate to or even in defiance of their ruler. Is that right?

Ch3, Q3: any more advice – confirmatory or additional – on retinues welcome. Have I interpreted the basics correctly? Are they worth getting, in due course? Should it be an early priority, or set aside for a while to allow the basics to be looked after?

Ch3, Q4: despite the almost universal advice about the dangers of enriching or empowering one’s vassals, does anyone believe in these circumstances some improvement to the Temple, even though held by a vassal, might be worth it? Some basic improvements for increasing tax and levy growth? Militia quarters or barracks to boost military strength? Or even starting a church town?

Ch3, Q5: If a new temple is built on the ruler’s demesne, who is in charge of it? Does a Godi have to be appointed, as a vassal, or can it just be run direct by the King? It seems like a very large investment, but presumably can provide long term rewards. Is it a short or long-term ambition, at this early stage?

Ch3, Q6: Any enlightenment (to borrow a word in context) as to the significance of both religion and in this case its ethnic denominations would be useful. I’ve seen a few AARs pay it quite a bit of intention, but without explaining the importance or desirability of having it homogenous throughout the realm, or in harmony the with the religion of its ruler. In other words, does Rurik have a problem and should be taking any action about the religious diversity in his realm?

Ch3, Q7: again, similar to religion, any basic thoughts or advice on culture most welcome.

Ch3, Q8: any major take-outs on the wider distribution of wealth for a petty kingdom in Holmgarđr’s starting position would be of interest.

A Norse Lawspeaker presides over a Thing. ​

So, on 9 July 867, Lawspeaker Hrörekr announces to all present: “On behalf of Good King Rurik, welcome! Have your say. All who wish to speak shall be heard.”

 

[Rufy_King]

Alright, let's counsel what I can.
Q1: I would certainly rise the Tribal Organization, but mostly for the "Revoking titles" part. It's a power you need. Not to abuse it, but to enforce it when necessary. Remember, without that, you are powerless. If you have it, you have an ace up your sleeve if anything else fails.

Q2: The rest can stay like this for now, you have no other particular reason to make any of your vassal angry.

Q3: Yep, essentially, you need your cap to be high enough to have retinues. They are definitely worth getting, especially when you are expanding. See, aside from retinues and special event troops, you need to have no army in the country to declare war. However, with retinues, you can place them in strategic positions and reduce your enemy remaining strategy. For example, if you place your retinues on one side of the river, and your enemy land is on the other, he won't be able to cross the river (granted, you need enough troops to match his army on pair/slightly disadvantage/advantage, but that's a different issue). Or, you can use your retinue to hunt down minor forces of your enemy while the army is sieging the enemy fortress. OR, and this is extremely important for someone on the northern seas, you can use your retinue to hunt down enemy raiders.
Bottomline, it's good to have retinue. Remember however that they come with a price, so make sure they won't drain your treasury dry.

Q4: The universal advice is not universal. Funny. Basically, I never had any particular issue with my barons. Sure, you can have problems with revolts in the county itself, but that's more often simply due to too much taxation and other stuff, and usually you can solve it by sending your marshal to suppress revolt (the appropriate looking button with the iron fist). However... (continues in question 5 because the two are related)

Q5: Temple vassals are usually THE WORST. I personally would not build anything until you have a feudal organization, so you can properly build a town. Those are much better. If you really want to increase something, try with those thing that improve income of money, but I would rather save the money for the main holding. If you built another one you would also need to name a new Godi, since you can't old temples as a ruler.

Q6: Essentially, religion difference makes your revolt risk higher. Sooner or later, looking at your map, I can assure you that a random revolt will pop out of nowhere, either for a "Russian/Estonian/Finnish liberation" (see below) or a "Slavic/Suomenusko revolt". BUT, I will counsel against changing religion. First of all, because it's funnier to play with something more difficult, and second because you are zealous. And zealous means it would be extremely out of character to go and just say "welp, time to change gods". It would instead be useful to send your Godi to convert the smallfolk. It will take time (and probably a few Godis, I lost like five to change the religion of a county once) but eventually he will succeed. For now I would send your marshal to suppress revolt in your home county, your Godi to convert your home county first and then the others, and be ready to fight any rebellion.

Also, side note, but if any of your vassals is not Germanic you want them to convert. You can demand a conversion with the appropriate button by right clicking their portraits. If they are unwilling, try to raise their opinion of you to 50 or more, that will usually make them willing.

Q7: Literally see question 6, with the difference that you can do basically nothing to try and change the county culture. Again, I would advise against changing culture, but this time because your current one as some advantage you would lose, if I am correct. If you have any vassal that is not of your culture, wait until he has children and offer to educate them, or to have them educated by someone that is of your same culture. There is a random chance that the child over time will become of the same culture (and religion) of his educator.

Q8: There is not much you can do right now, just focus on becoming a powerful kingdom and made sure you build a lot of cities, that will help.

-------------
Side note, no, that's not the raiding button, that is the organize a raid button, that will create event troops. The raiding button is in every army menu, that you can see by selecting the army. It looks the same, though.

 

[Bullfilter]

Alright, let's counsel what I can.
Q1: I would certainly rise the Tribal Organization, but mostly for the "Revoking titles" part. It's a power you need. Not to abuse it, but to enforce it when necessary. Remember, without that, you are powerless. If you have it, you have an ace up your sleeve if anything else fails.

Q2: The rest can stay like this for now, you have no other particular reason to make any of your vassal angry.

Q3: Yep, essentially, you need your cap to be high enough to have retinues. They are definitely worth getting, especially when you are expanding. See, aside from retinues and special event troops, you need to have no army in the country to declare war. However, with retinues, you can place them in strategic positions and reduce your enemy remaining strategy. For example, if you place your retinues on one side of the river, and your enemy land is on the other, he won't be able to cross the river (granted, you need enough troops to match his army on pair/slightly disadvantage/advantage, but that's a different issue). Or, you can use your retinue to hunt down minor forces of your enemy while the army is sieging the enemy fortress. OR, and this is extremely important for someone on the northern seas, you can use your retinue to hunt down enemy raiders.
Bottomline, it's good to have retinue. Remember however that they come with a price, so make sure they won't drain your treasury dry.

Q4: The universal advice is not universal. Funny. Basically, I never had any particular issue with my barons. Sure, you can have problems with revolts in the county itself, but that's more often simply due to too much taxation and other stuff, and usually you can solve it by sending your marshal to suppress revolt (the appropriate looking button with the iron fist). However... (continues in question 5 because the two are related)

Q5: Temple vassals are usually THE WORST. I personally would not build anything until you have a feudal organization, so you can properly build a town. Those are much better. If you really want to increase something, try with those thing that improve income of money, but I would rather save the money for the main holding. If you built another one you would also need to name a new Godi, since you can't old temples as a ruler.

Q6: Essentially, religion difference makes your revolt risk higher. Sooner or later, looking at your map, I can assure you that a random revolt will pop out of nowhere, either for a "Russian/Estonian/Finnish liberation" (see below) or a "Slavic/Suomenusko revolt". BUT, I will counsel against changing religion. First of all, because it's funnier to play with something more difficult, and second because you are zealous. And zealous means it would be extremely out of character to go and just say "welp, time to change gods". It would instead be useful to send your Godi to convert the smallfolk. It will take time (and probably a few Godis, I lost like five to change the religion of a county once) but eventually he will succeed. For now I would send your marshal to suppress revolt in your home county, your Godi to convert your home county first and then the others, and be ready to fight any rebellion.

Also, side note, but if any of your vassals is not Germanic you want them to convert. You can demand a conversion with the appropriate button by right clicking their portraits. If they are unwilling, try to raise their opinion of you to 50 or more, that will usually make them willing.

Q7: Literally see question 6, with the difference that you can do basically nothing to try and change the county culture. Again, I would advise against changing culture, but this time because your current one as some advantage you would lose, if I am correct. If you have any vassal that is not of your culture, wait until he has children and offer to educate them, or to have them educated by someone that is of your same culture. There is a random chance that the child over time will become of the same culture (and religion) of his educator.

Q8: There is not much you can do right now, just focus on becoming a powerful kingdom and made sure you build a lot of cities, that will help.

-------------
Side note, no, that's not the raiding button, that is the organize a raid button, that will create event troops. The raiding button is in every army menu, that you can see by selecting the army. It looks the same, though.

Many thanks for all that! It seems I still haven't got to the bottom of the raiding 'mystery' yet then. Will have a bit more of a look when it comes time.

Everyone else: still interested in further points you may have that support, supplement or even disagree with any views expressed by any attendees of the Thing.

 

[stnylan]

Ah it has really been too long since I have played CK2. This AAR is making me want to rectify that ... but alas it also needs to somehow give me an extra few hours each day for leisure activities, and I have yet to read an AAR which will do that.

Though on the flip side reading AARs does seem to consume leisure hours for me, so I suppose it balances

 

[Bullfilter]

Ah it has really been too long since I have played CK2. This AAR is making me want to rectify that ... but alas it also needs to somehow give me an extra few hours each day for leisure activities, and I have yet to read an AAR which will do that.

Though on the flip side reading AARs does seem to consume leisure hours for me, so I suppose it balances

Not a bad quandary to be in really

 

[Idhrendur]

Ch3, Q1:

Any views on current Tribal Organisation or future Centralisation legal matters welcome, including any laws that might be useful later one should strive for. The first option could be to aim for Legalism 1 as the first Cultural advance, but only if it would be worth it. There are others there that look like they could be more immediately useful.

I would agree that it's useful to raise the tribal organization by one. Beyond that, it can wait until you're anticipating becoming feudal or republican. You'll need it at max, and there's a cooldown between changes (plus you may have to convince others to go with it), so you'll want to get it started in advance. But for now not so much.

Ch3, Q2:

Should Vassal Obligations just be left at the default settings in force at game’s start, or are any worth changing for an early tribal society? I’m presuming the comment about councils not being able to initiate a law change means that sometimes they can, and separate to or even in defiance of their ruler. Is that right?

They won't make a difference until you become feudal or republican. Well, maybe the temple ones, but in all it's a minimal difference for now.

Ch3, Q3:

any more advice – confirmatory or additional – on retinues welcome. Have I interpreted the basics correctly? Are they worth getting, in due course? Should it be an early priority, or set aside for a while to allow the basics to be looked after?

As already pointed out, they can be quite nice. But I think you'll need to reform to feudal or republican before your cap increases enough to allow it. You have alternate methods of getting men that can make up for it though. You've noticed your councilors' missions (those are worth going into on an update), and three's a decision under the intrigue menu that can get a bunch of men at the cost of prestige.

Ch3, Q4:

despite the almost universal advice about the dangers of enriching or empowering one’s vassals, does anyone believe in these circumstances some improvement to the Temple, even though held by a vassal, might be worth it? Some basic improvements for increasing tax and levy growth? Militia quarters or barracks to boost military strength? Or even starting a church town?

Boosting barons is just fine, they'll never be able to do much. I like building up the money ones so they can afford to work on their own holdings. But only after improving mine because it's more directly helpful.

Ch3, Q5:

If a new temple is built on the ruler’s demesne, who is in charge of it? Does a Godi have to be appointed, as a vassal, or can it just be run direct by the King? It seems like a very large investment, but presumably can provide long term rewards. Is it a short or long-term ambition, at this early stage?

It'll initially be yours, but you may get a 'wrong holding type' penalty. Also, I seem to recall empty holdings boost your tribal holding somewhat, so focusing on boosting those is better for now.

Ch3, Q6:

Any enlightenment (to borrow a word in context) as to the significance of both religion and in this case its ethnic denominations would be useful. I’ve seen a few AARs pay it quite a bit of intention, but without explaining the importance or desirability of having it homogenous throughout the realm, or in harmony the with the religion of its ruler. In other words, does Rurik have a problem and should be taking any action about the religious diversity in his realm?

It makes rebellions more likely, both peasant ones and ones from and counts or dukes of different religions. I'm not sure you can do much with an unreformed religion, though. The odds of converting a county would be much too low.

Ch3, Q7:

again, similar to religion, any basic thoughts or advice on culture most welcome.

Same, though in counties you hold directly you have a councilor mission to bring in settlers. But only while tribal. As well, there's a chance for the county culture to change based on your stewardship, up to a stewardship of 13.

Ch3, Q8:

any major take-outs on the wider distribution of wealth for a petty kingdom in Holmgarđr’s starting position would be of interest.

Raiding's going to be your main source of wealth for a while.

Edit: Here's a screenshot showing the raid button

 

[Bullfilter]

I would agree that it's useful to raise the tribal organization by one. Beyond that, it can wait until you're anticipating becoming feudal or republican. You'll need it at max, and there's a cooldown between changes (plus you may have to convince others to go with it), so you'll want to get it started in advance. But for now not so much.



They won't make a difference until you become feudal or republican. Well, maybe the temple ones, but in all it's a minimal difference for now.


As already pointed out, they can be quite nice. But I think you'll need to reform to feudal or republican before your cap increases enough to allow it. You have alternate methods of getting men that can make up for it though. You've noticed your councilors' missions (those are worth going into on an update), and three's a decision under the intrigue menu that can get a bunch of men at the cost of prestige.


Boosting barons is just fine, they'll never be able to do much. I like building up the money ones so they can afford to work on their own holdings. But only after improving mine because it's more directly helpful.


It'll initially be yours, but you may get a 'wrong holding type' penalty. Also, I seem to recall empty holdings boost your tribal holding somewhat, so focusing on boosting those is better for now.


It makes rebellions more likely, both peasant ones and ones from and counts or dukes of different religions. I'm not sure you can do much with an unreformed religion, though. The odds of converting a county would be much too low.


Same, though in counties you hold directly you have a councilor mission to bring in settlers. But only while tribal. As well, there's a chance for the county culture to change based on your stewardship, up to a stewardship of 13.


Raiding's going to be your main source of wealth for a while.

Edit: Here's a screenshot showing the raid button

Thanks so much, for all the answers . I’m betting many other newish starters will also have found it helpful.

Especially the screenshot of that elusive raid button. At work (lunch break) at the moment, so I will have to wait to see what it does. That is, whether it will allow me to call the vassal levies the main screen won’t let me do due to the government type (rather than just sending the army as mustered on a raid).

As I’m playing Ironman mode, I will start a ‘dummy game’ to play with a few of these things, as I assume you must have done to get that little screenshot (thanks for going to the trouble - I hadn’t yet explored the army screen and will have to now it’s raiding season). If I could click the helpful button twice I would do, just for that

 

[Nuada Airgetlám]

If you're keen to stabilise your realm, one route is to enforce a single religion.

And one to further that cause is medium tribal organisation.

Medium Tribal Organization -10 Free revocation of titles from infidels and heretics

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Demesne_laws#Tribal_organization


Reforming a pagan religion opens up a bunch of options such as feudalism but it requires seizing and holding the appropriate holy sites.

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Pagans#Flavors_of_paganism

 

[Bullfilter]

If you're keen to stabilise your realm, one route is to enforce a single religion.

And one to further that cause is medium tribal organisation.



http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Demesne_laws#Tribal_organization


Reforming a pagan religion opens up a bunch of options such as feudalism but it requires seizing and holding the appropriate holy sites.

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Pagans#Flavors_of_paganism

Thanks. So I take it then that each ‘brand’ of paganism is treated as a separate religion? Will have to look into reform as things progress.

 

[Bullfilter]

Chapter 4: Fire and Axe (8 July to 31 December 867)​

8 July 867

King Rurik reviewed his troops. He knew he would need more men for his proposed first raid, so called up his demesne levies. With the troops already in his army, this would give over 2,000 men, which he trusted would be easily enough for his purposes. But, unless his Lawspeaker’s advisers could come up with any more ideas, it seemed his vassal’s liege levies could still not be raised in peacetime under prevailing tribal custom, therefore could not be called upon to join the King’s Army - to thence be sent on a declared raid [of course, I could still be missing something ].

Rurik decided not to call on the small group of levies (around 30) that Godi Porolfr could supply, instead leaving them as the nucleus of an emergency reserve that could be called on in case of threat while the main army would be off raiding.

For this first raid, a target close to home was sought, but not a direct neighbour. Also, to practice true Viking warfare, Gumarich reported a sea-raid would be carried out. As it was isolated from support and marginally more wealthy than most provinces nearby, the island county of Saaremaa, part of the High Chiefdom of Livonia, was selected as the first target. No more ‘science’ than that was applied – they simply wanted salt in their beards, blood on their axes and gold in their looting chests! The raiding forces would rendezvous in Ingria, reorganise further, appoint commanders for the two wings, then board ship for the Baltic and Saaremaa.

Prince Helgi, having studied raiding for the last six months, was full of theoretical enthusiasm for the process, but somehow seemed to find other duties to do at this time. A character description made by Gumarich the Scribe around this time gives some hints as to why Helgi, even though Marshal of the Realm, may have found other duties more pressing for his attention:

Prince Helgi was a man of diverse and sometimes warring natures. He was well trained as a tactician; quick of wit and erudite. But foremost he was found to be craven and cowardly. He tried to cover this grievous failing over with another sin – that of pride. This, combined with a hot and wrathful temper, made him a difficult man to deal with. To make thing even more difficult, his status as designated heir always carried the stain of his legitimised bastardy. With his wrathful and prideful nature, this in turn made him too much to handle for all but his father, whom he loved and obeyed.​

We thus deduce from the evidence available that Helgi was a flawed character, well trained for martial exploits and always seeking more knowledge, but temperamentally unsuited to leadership in combat. Whether these traits could be addressed or would present problems for any future leadership role remained, at this time, unknown – he was but 17 at the time. But he did not attend this first raiding expedition, instead staying behind in Holmgarðr to continue to train troops, for which he was well suited. This may also explain why researchers were unable to find any record of his parentage.

Of the other Councillors, Hrörekr continued his important mission to create a claim on Toropets.

[Ch 4 Q1: Pressing Claims. As stated in first Chapter 1, despite the event alert saying I can “press de Jure ducal claims” on Toropets and Torzhok, it is not clear to me how one can ‘press’ them without an actual claim button appearing in the character portrait. I’m guessing it is because of that tribal rule about de jure claims being inapplicable, but don’t really know if – despite having a bit of a look – there is something I’m missing out on here re ‘pressing a claim’. Or do I just wait for the claim to be fabricated? PS: I can also see (as pointed out in earlier comments) how the ‘Kingdom of Rus’ ambition could be very useful when it comes time to conduct wars of conquest and unification.]​

Steward Alfgeir continues to build the Rurikid Legend in Holmgarðr. The added prestige and possibility of drawing additional warriors to the banner is important for Rurik’s ambitions for becoming Exalted and using that as a springboard for later conquests – he does want to one day fight to unite the Rus. But while the legend continues to build, there is discussion as to whether future work for the Steward might include settling a tribe of King Rurik’s own countrymen, perhaps starting the process of changing the culture to Norse at some point in the future. This was deferred, as was the question of whether Rurik may wish to influence his current vassals to his religious and cultural ideals. This may be something for gradual, longer-term action. For now, prestige and raiding are at the top of his list.

Queen Ingjerðr, the King’s Spymaster, continues her important work in Kalevan to help improve the realm’s low technical capacity. Though, because it is close by, she does return for regular short ‘conjugal’ visits, as the other important role she has is producing a child to ensure the dynasty can continue in case of misadventure.

The Seer, Godi Porolfr, currently maintains his work to increase religious zeal in the home county – especially now the King has become a zealot himself.

As the King prepared his expedition, Alfgeir suggested he may be interested in building the size and scope of his court by recruiting outside talent, or commissioning works to advance his personal interests. The King would consider these for the future, but would make no decision before the new year – for now, he would concentrate on raiding.

[Ch4 Q2: ‘Minor’ Decisions. While having another commander available 'in the back pocket' may be handy, I don’t want to trade prestige right now. For the possible new Priest and Steward candidates, is it worthwhile having these extras at court to start building strength and choice, more potential office bearers for the future, children they may have, etc? Or just wait until there is a vacancy? Similarly, is it worth inviting new noblewomen to join when available, as a general principle? The Runestone deal looks expensive for now, though it’s unclear what the magnitude of the effect would be – it should be substantial for the cost! Finally, the Grand Hunt looks a reasonable option and I notice it’s seasonal. The conditions aren’t met now, though would be later in the year. With the (minor) prestige gain/month, is that generally until the next hunting season? Or is it either shorter term or alternatively cumulative over time? I will pass this year, but may look to hold one next year.]​

Before heading off to Ingria to lead his first raid, Rurik orders Alfgeir to start the building of market villages in his Holmgarðr and Ladoga demesne counties. It seems a wise investment to start increasing tax income (currently paltry) and see if trade can be encouraged [though it isn’t obvious how it does this]. These building projects left 941g and some silver in the treasury. Still a healthy balance, but with a current monthly income of only 68s, this surplus would soon erode with troop maintenance, more building costs and other incidental expenditure. Clearly, both an increased tax base and income from raiding will be necessary to stay solvent in the long term.

Market villages were commenced in both Holmgarðr and Ladoga.​

While noting previous advice about the benefits of increased tribal organisation from members of the recent Thing, Rurik knew his vassals would not like it, so he was not yet ready to change the law. If any became troublesome later, he would indeed change and have at it. “For now, the King doth keep his legal sword sheathed, with discretion reigning and valour deferred,” as Gumarich discreetly described it.

With his last administrative chore finally dealt with, King Rurik set out with his Army, to meet up with the remainder of his levies from Ladoga in Ingria, thence to the Raid of Saaremaa!

August 867

The Holmgarðian host united in Ingria on August 8. Rurik retained his command of the Holmgarðian Company in the centre; Chief Vsemil commanded the Holmgarðr Tribe on the left and Chief Svetozar the Ladoga Tribe on the right.

[I don’t know what the ‘auto-balance unit’ button does – didn’t seem to do anything when I clicked it. I also couldn’t see any easy way to swap soldiers between units, so assume that can’t be done. The three wings seemed balanced enough for now, so I left all as it was.] ​

With Helgi absent (training troops and cowardice) and Porolfr on religious duty, not only were these two the next best commanders (after Helgi), they were the only two available! The fourth commander, Chief Nuyanza of Ingria, was also unavailable: he seemed to have taken it on himself to have gone off raiding in his own time and did not appear as an option! He was later discovered to be raiding the Chiefs of Pskov and Latgale, and High Chief Nalka of Livonia for loot!

[I had earlier seen a raid in progress in Pskov, but – being yet unfamiliar with the game and the crests of the vassals – hadn’t realised it was one of mine doing the raiding! The picture below was taken in December, once I realised what was going on. Another newbie miss!]​

[Ch 4 Q3: Vassal Raiding. Is it common for vassals to go off a-raiding like this, without leave? I guess it must be! Should I sack him as a commander and look for someone else to promote into the role? I guess I could also remove Godi Porolfr as well and replace him with someone more likely to be available. Any general advice about handling and appointing commanders would be useful.]​

The fleet, consisting of 40 galleys, would be ample for the raid. However, in an elementary error, their commander had not been ordered to port in anticipation of the raid, so it would take another six days for them to arrive in Ingria!

On August 14, the fleet had arrived, the correct orders were given to load the army and (after a previous lengthy debate over the niceties of tribal laws) the order to loot was given. Progress at last!

And at last, they were on their way! All cares seemed to
wash away with the salt spray and excitement of a good
old-fashioned Norse raid. Ah, this is the life!​

September 867

Having landed on Saaremaa on 8 September, Rurik discovers there are no field forces in place, so it’s a siege first, of the tribal holding. It looks like it will be a simple waiting game, with a few months required for the defenders' morale to go down while the raiders’ goes up. An assault would become possible in another seven days, but it would probably be too expensive in men to be worth it and there is no direct threat from the High Chief of Livonia, whose forces are land-bound (and dealing will Nuyanza’s raiding).

The unfortunate Chief Viryas of Saaremaa. It is not clear whether he is present or not.​

October 867

On October 7, the Seer sent news that his zealous mission has borne fruit.

These holy warriors will be organised and sent to the nearest possible trouble spot – the county of Luki. There they can keep an eye on the repercussions of any reaction to Nuyanza’s raiding in Pskov, or of the King’s in Saaremaa (a vassal county of the Livonian High Chief Nalka, who is understandably displeased at having his lands raided). And they can move on Toropets if an opportunity presents, or south in case of problems in the isolated country of Smaleskja. And Nuyunza (out of the blue and unasked) turns up to command this contingent! If they get restless, they may need to be sent on a small raid of their own.

Rurik is not sure what (if any) benefit it would have, but with a sizable force of zealous warriors raised, Porolfr next sought to proselytize in the home county. “The best heretic or infidel is a converted one; the next best a dead one,” Gumarich reported Porolfr having said as he started out on his new mission.

By October 15, Rurik’s quartermaster reports the province of Saaremaa can be looted for 44s and 6 coppers [ie 0.446g] every four days, to be split between all looting units. The loot is all being sent back to the fleet, which is currently holding 4g – and can carry up to 400g!

[Ch4 Q4: Looting #1. If all the raiding units are owned – as in this case – by the King, does that mean it all goes back to the realm’s coffers? Despite the presence of two vassals as commanders?]​

November 867

Rurik holds a council of war with his two commanders – Chiefs Svetozar and Vsemil – on November 3. During the siege, he has noticed Vsemil has improved his martial skills [up from 13 to 15], but can’t quite put his finger on the reason for this. It may be because he has become a follower of the God Perun, the Slavic God of Thunder. He also has heard that Vsemil longs to become Marshal of Homgarðr, but has been understandably reticent about mentioning it to the King – father of the current Marshal. But his improving martial skills and Helgi’s craven attitude to war give Rurik food for thought…

One of Gumarich's apprentices, sent as a military secretary to the King, made notes of the meeting, which were found among the Rurikid scrolls:

“How goes this siege, Vsemil?” Rurik inquired.

“Well, my liege,” answered Vsemil. “The defenders’ morale is now down to about half, whereas ours is now at its maximum. The men can sense success – and more loot.”

Svetozar chimed in, not wishing to be upstaged by a man he saw as below him in stature, if not in formal rank: “Aye, King Rurik. We have been at this for almost two months now – I hope it doesn’t take another two to finish it. It will be deep winter by then.”

“Then let us hope the coming winter also forces our victims to surrender.” The King callsed the short war council to a close.

December 867

Exactly one month later (December 3), as the siege drags on and winter is well upon the King’s camp, a courier arrives, fresh off a fast boat from Ingria. He has a smile on his face: this is no secret message, but good news, to be shared with all! The mead is broken out, and the men look just that little more proudly on their liege.

And on December 25 - the infidel Christians’ great day of celebration – Rurik receives a gift of his own: victory in the siege against the Saaremaa Tribe, with no loss of life from his own men. But no prisoners are taken (a pity) – the garrison perishes to a man. The fleet continues to fill with loot.

One down, one more to go …​

The raiders now begin to besiege the county’s holding – the Temple of Hiiumaa. This looks like it should take about five weeks. The quartermaster reports that no more treasure is now being brought in – with the sacking of the holding, it would appear any more loot must be held behind the walls of the temple. It will just have to be prised out the hard way, then!

[Ch4 Q5: Looting #2. So, here I’m presuming it is still worthwhile continuing the siege of the temple, on the basis that any loot it is holding can be taken when it is sacked. If that is not the case, we may as well leave and find another target. Key points gleaned from ‘Wiki the Red’s Raiding Tome’, which I hope I’ve interpreted correctly and have placed excerpts here also for other’s who are new to the game, are included in the spoiler below.]​

Spoiler: Wiki the Red’s Raider Tome – excerpts and comments

"Even a small band of raiders can ransack the countryside for loot. The base available loot in a province is roughly 2/3 of the total annual income for all holdings in that province. Of this loot, some is protected by walls. The protected amount is equal to the sum of the fort levels in all (un-sacked) holdings in the province, multiplied by the number of holdings. The remainder may be looted freely, by leaving raiding troops in the province."

Comment: Well, I’m not going to do the detailed maths, but this looks about right – about 8g looted so far and the annual income was I think around 11g from memory. I suppose the accessible loot has already been extracted, thus the indicator ‘no more loot’.​

"The speed of looting depends on the size of your raiding party (up to 500) and the "max loot" in the province (regardless of whether it is protected by fortifications or already plundered). It takes 100 days to fully loot a province, although your raiders will usually have to pause when they encounter fortifications.

With enough raiders, holdings may be sieged down as well. The mechanics are similar to occupation sieges, but a given siege has a single goal: sacking or occupation; it is possible to toggle raiding off after sacking so that an occupation siege can take place. Note that raiding cannot be toggled on again until the army is back in friendly territory."

Comment: OK, I’m not out to occupy this time, so will just keep sacking, unless advised differently.​

"Sacking a holding … loots a large amount of money (roughly double the annual income of the holding) … Sacking gives a large lump sum of holding loot, frees additional province loot for raiding, and … has a chance of imprisoning any courtiers in the province.

It may trigger an event giving the Viking trait, if raider's religion is Germanic or reformed Germanic. [Here’s hoping]. {It may also} trigger some special raiding event chains."

Comment: all sounds good, we’ll see what this one produces.​

"Sacking infidel temples increases moral authority. Likewise, sacking a temple belonging to your religion will decrease your own moral authority."

Comment: Hmmm, hope this is considered an ‘infidel temple’! The province’s religion is ‘Suomenusko Pagan’, while Rurik’s is ‘Germanic Pagan’.​

[Ch4 Q6: Religion and Temple Sacking. The province’s religion is ‘Suomenusko Pagan’, while Rurik’s is ‘Germanic Pagan’. I hope this counts as ‘infidel’ for the purposes of sacking. Any advice appreciated, before I complete the siege.]​

Thing – 31 December 867

Hrörekr convened the Second Thing of Rurik’s reign on December 31. Again, all were invited to either answer questions, or provide comment on any matter concerning the Realm.

Ch 4 Q1: Pressing Claims. As stated in first Chapter 1, despite the event alert saying I can “press de Jure ducal claims” on Toropets and Torzhok, it is not clear how one can ‘press’ them without an actual claim button appearing in the character portrait. I’m guessing it is because of that tribal rule about de jure claims being inapplicable, but don’t really know if – despite having a bit of a look – there is something I’m missing out on here re ‘pressing a claim’. Or do I just have to wait for the claim to be fabricated? PS: I can also see (as pointed out in earlier comments) how the ‘Kingdom of Rus’ ambition could be very useful when it comes time to conduct wars of conquest and unification.

Ch4 Q2: ‘Minor’ Decisions. While having another commander available may be handy, I don’t want to trade prestige right now. For the possible new Priest and Steward candidates, is it worthwhile having these extras at court to start building strength and choice, more potential office bearers for the future, children they may have, etc? Or just wait until there is a vacancy? Similarly, is it worth inviting new noblewomen to join when available, as a general principle? The Runestone deal looks expensive for now, though it’s unclear what the magnitude of the effect would be – it should be substantial for the cost! Finally, the Grand Hunt looks a reasonable option and I notice it’s seasonal. Then conditions aren’t met now, though would be later in the year. With the (minor) prestige gain/month, is that generally until the next hunting season? Or is it either shorter term or alternatively cumulative over time? I will pass this year, but may look to hold one next year.

Ch 4 Q3: Vassal Raiding. Is it common for vassals to go off a-raiding like this, without leave? I guess it must be! Should I sack him as a commander and look for someone else to promote into the role? I guess I could also remove Godi Porolfr as well and replace him with someone more likely to be available. Any general advice about handling and appointing commanders would be useful.

Ch4 Q4: Looting #1. If all the raiding units are owned – as in this case – by the King, does that mean it all goes back to the realm’s coffers?

Ch4 Q5: Looting #2. So, here I’m presuming it is still worthwhile continuing the siege of the temple, on the basis any loot it is holding can be taken when it is sacked. If that is not the case, we may as well leave and find another target.

Ch4 Q6: Religion and Temple Sacking. The province’s religion is ‘Suomenusko Pagan’, while Rurik’s is ‘Germanic Pagan’. I hope this counts as ‘infidel’ for the purposes of sacking. Any advice appreciated, before I complete the siege. PS: A similar question probably applies to finding 'infidels' for the band of warrior zealots currently getting twitchy in Luki.

 

[Eurasia]

Ch 4 Q1: Pressing Claims. As stated in first Chapter 1, despite the event alert saying I can “press de Jure ducal claims” on Toropets and Torzhok, it is not clear how one can ‘press’ them without an actual claim button appearing in the character portrait. I’m guessing it is because of that tribal rule about de jure claims being inapplicable, but don’t really know if – despite having a bit of a look – there is something I’m missing out on here re ‘pressing a claim’. Or do I just have to wait for the claim to be fabricated? PS: I can also see (as pointed out in earlier comments) how the ‘Kingdom of Rus’ ambition could be very useful when it comes time to conduct wars of conquest and unification.

There is more then one way to get a claim. As the Ruler of your Realm I assume this are claims you have to go to war for. Go to the Rulers whose holdings you have a claim on and check out the Declare War button and see what is available.

Now if you were a Duke (or had a Title of a certain Duchy) and had two out of the three counties to your title you could also claim the third county if it was within the same Realm. Or declare war on another Realm if they held that county.

There are many types of claims and a few ways to get the holding in question.

 

[markkur]

I don't know if the game has changed but I looted while keeping an eye on the province's gold bar. iiirc, on the bar is a line that divides available loot. Below that you have to siege. Also, I would choose richer places in the West, where you can gain more gold from the countryside versus storming keeps. Hopefully this info is still accurate.

 

[Rufy_King]

*Clears throat*

Q1: Right click on the portrait of your neighbour. You will see a series of buttons, one of them is "Declare War". If you have any casus belli, it will allow to press on it. Check the casus belli. There is probably a number of them, but if you have a claim that is the logical one to press. Go to war. Win. Get the county/duchy you were fighting for.

Q2: Calling in new courtiers can be worthy, but only in a number of cases. Of course, if you are lacking a decent substitute for a dead councillor/commander, this is what you have to do. It's also worthy if you have a new county you can't/you don't want to hold for yourself, you can just give it to a new courtier instead of one of your vassals, to avoid making an eccessive powerful one. The nice thing is that the courtier (and therefore the vassal) will be of your same religion AND culture. Another reason is if you need an educator for one of the court children. Since as I said giving your children in tutoring to someone of a different culture/religion will have the danger of changing his culture/religion to that of his educator, you can just call in a new courtier and fill the hole. For example:
"I want my son to be a decent steward, but all the people good with numbers in my country are *random religion and/or group different from your own*"
*clicks to invite a Nobleman to court (noblemen are good with numbers, holymen are good in learning, commanders are good in, of course, military, and if I'm not wrong debutantes are good with diplomacy/intrigue, but on this one I'm not sure*
"Wow, now I have exactly who I needed, go learn from him sonny."
Of course, since the new courtier is totally random, you could also get one that has a good number of points but is just a terrible person, so always make sure you don't have alternatives before choosing to call in a new courtier.
Or you can just do what I usually do when I have nothing better in my hands and play "marriage court", that is basically marrying courtiers with each other to try and create courtiers with monstrously high statistic and eventually turn into good vassals. It's a funny thing to do in between wars and raids. I still remember house of Nassau, that I raised from simple courtiers to the vassal kings of Egypt.

Q3: If they have a religion that allows them to raid, and they have no job at your court (like, if your Marshal is a count raising a raid band he won't randomly go away) then yes, they will randomly go away pillaging, sometime for months. I don't know if it's worth changing them just for this, eventually they will come back.

Q4: Yes you get the money. Your commanders can randomly get the viking trait, just like you.

Q5: It's always worth looting a county as much as you can if you have the time and safety. Remember however that is generally better to raid the west or the middle east, both because they have richer lands and because they are less likely to retaliate.

Q6: As far as I am aware, those are infedels by your point of view.

 

[Idhrendur]

*Clears throat*

Q1: Right click on the portrait of your neighbour. You will see a series of buttons, one of them is "Declare War". If you have any casus belli, it will allow to press on it. Check the casus belli. There is probably a number of them, but if you have a claim that is the logical one to press. Go to war. Win. Get the county/duchy you were fighting for.

Q2: Calling in new courtiers can be worthy, but only in a number of cases. Of course, if you are lacking a decent substitute for a dead councillor/commander, this is what you have to do. It's also worthy if you have a new county you can't/you don't want to hold for yourself, you can just give it to a new courtier instead of one of your vassals, to avoid making an eccessive powerful one. The nice thing is that the courtier (and therefore the vassal) will be of your same religion AND culture. Another reason is if you need an educator for one of the court children. Since as I said giving your children in tutoring to someone of a different culture/religion will have the danger of changing his culture/religion to that of his educator, you can just call in a new courtier and fill the hole. For example:
"I want my son to be a decent steward, but all the people good with numbers in my country are *random religion and/or group different from your own*"
*clicks to invite a Nobleman to court (noblemen are good with numbers, holymen are good in learning, commanders are good in, of course, military, and if I'm not wrong debutantes are good with diplomacy/intrigue, but on this one I'm not sure*
"Wow, now I have exactly who I needed, go learn from him sonny."
Of course, since the new courtier is totally random, you could also get one that has a good number of points but is just a terrible person, so always make sure you don't have alternatives before choosing to call in a new courtier.
Or you can just do what I usually do when I have nothing better in my hands and play "marriage court", that is basically marrying courtiers with each other to try and create courtiers with monstrously high statistic and eventually turn into good vassals. It's a funny thing to do in between wars and raids. I still remember house of Nassau, that I raised from simple courtiers to the vassal kings of Egypt.

Q3: If they have a religion that allows them to raid, and they have no job at your court (like, if your Marshal is a count raising a raid band he won't randomly go away) then yes, they will randomly go away pillaging, sometime for months. I don't know if it's worth changing them just for this, eventually they will come back.

Q4: Yes you get the money. Your commanders can randomly get the viking trait, just like you.

Q5: It's always worth looting a county as much as you can if you have the time and safety. Remember however that is generally better to raid the west or the middle east, both because they have richer lands and because they are less likely to retaliate.

Q6: As far as I am aware, those are infedels by your point of view.

I agree with these answers.

Also with Q5, be careful in the richer lands, as they are more likely to have armies to drive you off. You still keep the loot in your boats, but it sucks to lose an army.

Q6: Germanic and Suomenusko are considered separate religions. Try opening the ledger and clicking three pages to the right to see a list of religions in the world.

 

[Bullfilter]

There is more then one way to get a claim. As the Ruler of your Realm I assume this are claims you have to go to war for. Go to the Rulers whose holdings you have a claim on and check out the Declare War button and see what is available.

Now if you were a Duke (or had a Title of a certain Duchy) and had two out of the three counties to your title you could also claim the third county if it was within the same Realm. Or declare war on another Realm if they held that county.

There are many types of claims and a few ways to get the holding in question.

Ah, many thanks, I guess (from what I’ve read) I usually want (or need) to have some form of casus belli to declare war and it may not be a claim. IIRC, declaring war without one is either not possible or does awful things to your reputation. Anyway, will have a play with those as suggested

I don't know if the game has changed but I looted while keeping an eye on the province's gold bar. iiirc, on the bar is a line that divides available loot. Below that you have to siege. Also, I would choose richer places in the West, where you can gain more gold from the countryside versus storming keeps. Hopefully this info is still accurate.

Thanks, will have a look for this ‘raiding bar’.

*Clears throat*

Q1: Right click on the portrait of your neighbour. You will see a series of buttons, one of them is "Declare War". If you have any casus belli, it will allow to press on it. Check the casus belli. There is probably a number of them, but if you have a claim that is the logical one to press. Go to war. Win. Get the county/duchy you were fighting for.

Nice, thanks to you and Eurasia for guiding my attention there.

Q2: Calling in new courtiers can be worthy, but only in a number of cases. Of course, if you are lacking a decent substitute for a dead councillor/commander, this is what you have to do. It's also worthy if you have a new county you can't/you don't want to hold for yourself, you can just give it to a new courtier instead of one of your vassals, to avoid making an eccessive powerful one. The nice thing is that the courtier (and therefore the vassal) will be of your same religion AND culture. Another reason is if you need an educator for one of the court children. Since as I said giving your children in tutoring to someone of a different culture/religion will have the danger of changing his culture/religion to that of his educator, you can just call in a new courtier and fill the hole. For example:
"I want my son to be a decent steward, but all the people good with numbers in my country are *random religion and/or group different from your own*"
*clicks to invite a Nobleman to court (noblemen are good with numbers, holymen are good in learning, commanders are good in, of course, military, and if I'm not wrong debutantes are good with diplomacy/intrigue, but on this one I'm not sure*
"Wow, now I have exactly who I needed, go learn from him sonny."
Of course, since the new courtier is totally random, you could also get one that has a good number of points but is just a terrible person, so always make sure you don't have alternatives before choosing to call in a new courtier.
Or you can just do what I usually do when I have nothing better in my hands and play "marriage court", that is basically marrying courtiers with each other to try and create courtiers with monstrously high statistic and eventually turn into good vassals. It's a funny thing to do in between wars and raids. I still remember house of Nassau, that I raised from simple courtiers to the vassal kings of Egypt.

Nicely explained, makes sense of what I’ve picked up in a couple of AARs recently, will see where I can go with it, as in this case the ruler’s ethnic background (German/Norse) is different to all his realm provinces and nearby potential conquests (and I’ll recheck, but also pretty much all the vassals too).

Q3: If they have a religion that allows them to raid, and they have no job at your court (like, if your Marshal is a count raising a raid band he won't randomly go away) then yes, they will randomly go away pillaging, sometime for months. I don't know if it's worth changing them just for this, eventually they will come back.

Righto.

Q4: Yes you get the money. Your commanders can randomly get the viking trait, just like you.

Q5: It's always worth looting a county as much as you can if you have the time and safety. Remember however that is generally better to raid the west or the middle east, both because they have richer lands and because they are less likely to retaliate.

Q6: As far as I am aware, those are infedels by your point of view.

Excellent!

Once again, thanks for the very useful and comprehensive answers, Rufy_King I will follow them all up. I am indeed already thinking of a western target next, perhaps the traditional hunting grounds of England or the northern coast of France. I wanted to practice first on something close and easy to take. Also had no idea what size a healthy raiding force for a more distant raiding campaign might be. I could bring this force up to almost 3000, still leaving the remaining uncalled vassal levies at home for emergencies, with mercs available too. 3000 seems a fairly decent sized force to go roaming with - I hope!

I agree with these answers.

Also with Q5, be careful in the richer lands, as they are more likely to have armies to drive you off. You still keep the loot in your boats, but it sucks to lose an army.

Yes, per above, I was generally wary of that without having the experience or knowing the specifics. Still, if I want the big bucks I suppose I need to chase them. No reward without risk!

Q6: Germanic and Suomenusko are considered separate religions. Try opening the ledger and clicking three pages to the right to see a list of religions in the world.

Great, thanks for the confirmation. I’d had a quick scan through the ledger the other day and it seemed to have some useful info in it. Will take another look.

To all readers: still welcome any other opinions or clarifications if you have any. Also, other than the specific questions I pose, happy for any general (ie ordinary AAR style) comments, even if the assembled wisdom of the Thing has already answered all the big questions . Aside from the learning aspects, this will also be a ‘normal’ storytelling AAR as well, so any remarks along those lines (characters, events, choices made or available etc) also warmly welcomed.

Thanks all for reading, especially those who have taken the time to comment. And I hope it is proving as helpful to others learning the game as it has for me! This is my first genuine game of CK2, so if the questions seem raw, they are

 

[stnylan]

All in all I have to say it sounds like you are having quite a bit of fun learning the game.