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Right so normally if you want in on that sexy society action you just have to apply and they always say yes (I'm pretty sure they let literally anyone in who isn't part of another faction. You will see female Indian buddhists ruling learner societies filled with horse, Muslim and Christian men and women from across the world for example).
However, some societies actually have standards.
Namely, the evil ones.
Any who, they won't let you in unless you're evil in some demonstrable way, or you send out letters and spies begging them to let you in (or both, and there's also I think a random event running around somewhere). When you get into those, the reason for their secrecy and reticence becomes clear...they are by far and away the most powerful people in the world. If you rank up in these societies, you will be able to make soul slaves out of anyone in your court. You want to build a court of sex abuse? You can. Have everyone love you for life? Yup. Have them do silly dances until their hearts burst? ...it'll be in the next patch.
So yeah...secret religious sects will destroy your character's rep outside the realm and may randomly kill them but you will become a god in your own realm for the time that you have to enjoy it.
And just to comment on the game start options...you might want to think of a plan to avoid the world dying from twin Mongol and Aztec invasions. My advice would be to build a strong empire yourself and then start fostering tough client kingdoms around you because if Western Europe and the Balkans aren't ready, they both get wiped by these guys.
Ignore them. I have never, ever seen someone get independence without PC help. Unless you do something ridiculous like make Europe and Africa hate you so much they make a grand alliance against you (which I deffo wasn't stupid enough to do...twice...) then you should be fine.
Straight binary. You are in control or you have nothing.
Think of it in terms of majority. It's all well and good telling the people what to believe but if fifty or more percent of the local populace will report, antagonise or murder anyone who goes against your religion...well, you aren't going to have a problem in that county are you? So basically you're trying to convert as many people in each county as possible to the one true faith of whatever and then telling them to batter everyone else into submission.
If you want to use it, use it immediately, otherwise it will fail at the worst moment and yes, armies on board don't magically teleport to freedom. As we all know, Vikings can't swim. Swimming is for dead monks.
Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel.These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?
As a general note, I pretty much have to second what @stnylan has said: Aside from the secret evil fellowships (and to a lesser extent the hermeticists), I feel like M&M really gave the "(secret) societies" mechanic a bit of a short shrift. In a perfect world -- at least IMO -- in addition to the small selection of "permanent" societies we'd also have smaller, temporary, dynamically generated, goal-oriented associations (perhaps subsuming Plots and Factions into a single overall mechanic as well) with a lot more room for intra-group politicking, moles looking to subvert the organization's purpose from within (and ways to rat them out -- or assist them!), "group" rivalries, etc. Of course, this bit is mostly just me thinking out loud about what could be, and not strictly relevant to what is.
On that note: IIRC, on top of the fact that you need to be a "sinner" to join the Evil Cult, I believe Rurik's Zealous trait also disqualifies him from becoming a member as well, though I could be wrong about that. In any event, if you're going to get a character into the Evil Cult, you'll get the most mileage out of the experience if you approach it in full-on Faustian mode, throwing yourself headlong into the madness and the depravity without reservation. Just be prepared to do a little bit of soul-searching once you've finished -- there's a reason I deactivate the Evil Cults in my game, and it isn't merely because they're ridiculously, gloriously game-breaking.
Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat.OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?
In line with what's already been said: I'm still figuring out what the "Threat" readout actually means in practical terms, and I prefer to rely on my own experience and intuition instead. The Faction Strength measure is much more straightforward, and consequently much more useful in estimating who might actually be a threat to the realm's stability.
Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county?So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?
It's all or nothing for provinces, I'm afraid. This game doesn't have any detailed Pop dynamics like Vic2 or Stellaris. On the character level, as others have said the "secret religion" societies allow you to publicly profess one faith while secretly adhering to and trying to spread another.
Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet.From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!
I actually ran the experiment @Idhrendur suggested, and the results are somewhat surprising: Apparently, if the event boats are carrying troops, the game won't disband them on the ruler's death! They'll disband if they're empty, though, no matter where they (or your armies) are, so if you're worried about losing them while out raiding it might be wise to detach a tiny levy to "watch the boats" while the main force goes out to plunder.
Ch21 Q6: River Travel.I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.
This is absolutely correct. The chief thing to keep in mind is that the Med (particularly the Eastern Med) is both more advanced and more (relatively) politically stable, meaning higher Fort levels and bigger armies chasing your raiders. On the other hand, that also means that their provinces make richer targets... In any case, you should still be able to make good use of the "loot and scoot" strategy, maybe even sacking a target of opportunity here or there.
And under the "general advice" column:
Helgi and Jorunn now have a son and heir! Young Buðli may one day love his grandfather, but, to Rurik’s intense disappointment, Helgi proclaims the boy will be raised under the Slavic gods. This is enough to turn Rurik’s mind against the young child, seeing him as a religious threat rather than a welcome grandson. The Chancellor has attached a small note to the message of Buðli’s birth, pointing out he is now, under the realm’s laws second in the line of succession after Helgi, and before his own good Norse sons Eilif and Dyre. After his tenth or eleventh ale, he starts to sympathise with his wife’s alleged machinations! [But those conspiracy cases are always so hard to prove!]
Good news: Once young Buðli comes of age to be educated (6 years old) you can use a character decision to reset his education focus to Heritage, then assign him to a Norse Germanic guardian (prefereably Rurik himself, naturally) so that he has a much greater chance of adhering to the customs and beliefs of his noble ancestors! This allows you to hedge your bets somewhat even if Helgi himself ends up inheriting.
I actually ran the experiment @Idhrendur suggested, and the results are somewhat surprising: Apparently, if the event boats are carrying troops, the game won't disband them on the ruler's death! They'll disband if they're empty, though, no matter where they (or your armies) are, so if you're worried about losing them while out raiding it might be wise to detach a tiny levy to "watch the boats" while the main force goes out to plunder.
Event troops disperse on character death though (unless that's changed?) so presumably you'd have to make sure that you had some levy in those boats at all times, not event guys.
In any case, from personal experience I would be wary of losing men to boat glitches. I lost thousands of men and thousands more in gold for losing around three quarters of my professional standing army coming back from a Crusade. It took decades for them to finally despawn or disappear from where've the game had vanished them off to. For a small army realm like this one...that could be a game ending bug,
I decided to add this to my read list as well so you owe my boss 8 hours of productive work day from today. I managed to read all the way to here. I played CK a lot but never played CKII however I read some AARs and stuff. Your good writing of 2nd WW persists in middle ages as well.
During my read I always thought why sail all the way to Ireland instead of navigating downriver of Volga to Caspian sea, and it seems you can go for Black Sea via Baltic as well. Keep Caspian Sea in mind as well if there are underdefended rich provinces.
One question: Why did you only take Zaozerye and left the rest? If you took all the provinces I believe northernmost province was a coastal one thus you could've built your own ships.
Another question: If you are worried about the death of your ruler thus losing the ships etc, why aren't you more worried about the loss of prestige? I thought it didn't passed on to the heir if the ruler dies so maybe you'd better raise that army as well and maybe make some wars parallel to raiding.
I decided to add this to my read list as well so you owe my boss 8 hours of productive work day from today. I managed to read all the way to here. I played CK a lot but never played CKII however I read some AARs and stuff. Your good writing of 2nd WW persists in middle ages as well.
During my read I always thought why sail all the way to Ireland instead of navigating downriver of Volga to Caspian sea, and it seems you can go for Black Sea via Baltic as well. Keep Caspian Sea in mind as well if there are underdefended rich provinces.
One question: Why did you only take Zaozerye and left the rest? If you took all the provinces I believe northernmost province was a coastal one thus you could've built your own ships.
Another question: If you are worried about the death of your ruler thus losing the ships etc, why aren't you more worried about the loss of prestige? I thought it didn't passed on to the heir if the ruler dies so maybe you'd better raise that army as well and maybe make some wars parallel to raiding.
Welcome aboard to this AAR as well, discoerekto, privileged to have your patronage. I’ll respond in detail to your questions when I do my usual roundup, but just wanted to say hello now
Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel.These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?
Well this is just broken. I mean, it got a bit nerfed from the beginning, but even now any form of dark cult is extremely OP, and can really make the game a walk in the park. I've seen a few gameplay - I don't own Monks & Mystics myself - and I think especially Pravus showed how useful they can be. Of course you will have some rebellions or some rulers deaths here and there, but once you get how to use it you can build your kingdom of darkness and rule undisputed.
However, Rurik is Zelous. No broken Fellowship of Hel for him.
Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession.OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.
You can use the button "Nominate" on the upper right corner of the heir list and therefore change the named heir. This is also the reason why you shouldn't form duchies immediately once you are a king, if you plan to give them away: Dukes can be elected and if their are slavic pagan they WILL be elected.
Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat.OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?
The treath sometimes gets a bit fuzzy. But as someone said above, don't worry, I have seen only a few rebellions actually succeed when not led by the player, and those came from king level rulers revolting against the Emperor, or from a great alliance of strong dukes against a king - and my absolute first game when I still had no idea how to play and the Holy Roman Empire got defeated by the italians but that was just me making stupid noob mistakes because this AAR didn't exist back in the days.
Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county?So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?
Religion is all or nothing: that region is Slavic pagan, a vast majority of the inhabitants are Slavic Pagan. That's why converting them is so important - and a real pain.
Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet.From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!
Ch21 Q6: River Travel.I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.
Yup, River travel is the best thing Norse people have up their sleeve. I second the opinion on sailing to Rome or Venice, and I also suggest Genoa. Also, I think you can sail through a river to the Caspian Sea, and there are a few holding there that are worth a shot.
You can use the button "Nominate" on the upper right corner of the heir list and therefore change the named heir. This is also the reason why you shouldn't form duchies immediately once you are a king, if you plan to give them away: Dukes can be elected and if their are slavic pagan they WILL be elected.
That reminds me: laws can be different for your various titles sometimes. From that screen, try clicking on the different crests to change which one is being considered. As mentioned in this feedback, sometimes that can mean different people nominated to the various titles, splitting your realm on death.
I’m loving the Rurik/Helgi conundrum? Decisions decisions. I’m wondering whether the kings indecision is the worst of all worlds. I guess we’ll soon see. Personally I’d be laying the law down and delivering my recalcitrant son some ultimatums.
That reminds me: laws can be different for your various titles sometimes. From that screen, try clicking on the different crests to change which one is being considered. As mentioned in this feedback, sometimes that can mean different people nominated to the various titles, splitting your realm on death.
This is certainly true and something to bear in mind for people who want to build a large hegemonic empire rather than making one kingdom very large. If you want elective succession for the empire because of the great boosts it gives relations or for roleplaying whatever, having a few few kingdoms that will solidly remain yours and are tightly controlled by you (either you own every county or have max crown authority there) will come in handy. All sorts of interesting things become possible when you start experimenting with laws in different places (you can for example, if your empire is big enough, destroy papal independence in practice just by declaring free investiture everywhere and nominating all the bishops yourself).
To all: some great feedback so far. Happy to take any more and any story commentary for a while longer. Will do the traditional consolidated response after I get a few more episodes of my other AARs up, that hopefully won’t take too long. Then back to Rurik and his big strategic decisions and complicated family life!
The Eighth Thing of Rurik's Reign - July 875 (a summary of advice from Chapter 21)
The Eighth Thing of Rurik's Reign - July 875 (a summary of advice from Chapter 21)
Much for the þing to consider as Rurik contemplates his next steps – at home and abroad. And, as always, the wise of the realm had plenty of useful advice, which Hrörekr duly summarised and passed on to the King. Much useful advice to consider, so let’s get cracking!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel.These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?
1. The button in the top right opens a list of fellowships. I believe the option to join them is there. And if I recall, for the evil fellowships and a few other special ones (like the assasins), you have to express interest to join and then wait for events to start happening. For the more typical ones (which may not appear until you reform the faith or convert), you simply ask and then get accepted. I suppose a rejection is possible, but I've never seen it.
1. You must have a sin trait (lustful, sloth, etc.) to join the evil society (of any religion). Secret cults are for those with secret religions (if say Rurik was secretly a Muslim but still openly professed Norse faith).
Yes, confirmed the sinner requirement when doing the above. The other two were being of age (16+) and a follower of the Germanic religion. So Rurik satisfies only 2/3.
IIRC one of the "problems" with M&M is there really need to be more societies ... iirc (and I am sure someone more knowledgeable than I will correct me if I am wrong) pagans only get access to the 'devil-worshipper' one, though each one has its own unique name.
It does seem a bit restrictive here. Surely there could have been at least one Odin, Thor (in particular – Rurik would have joined in a trice) or Freya society available. This one is more of a Loki group, by the looks of it.
1. For the Fellowship of Hel, you need to have a sinful (The 7 deadly sins are the red numbered traits, the 7 heavenly virtues are the green numbered traits) trait, Rurik doesn't start with any but may have gained some since the start of the game. Once you've got one you there will be a button to express interest in the cult. They'll contact you after a while. You can occasionally get the event chain even if you haven't expressed interest if an AI character belonging to the cult attempts to convert you. It's really a mixed bag of tricks and experimentation is best with an older character so that you can die quickly if you don't like it.
Still no sins for Rurik: he remains as pure as blood-stained snow (for a Norseman, that is)! I’ll see if I ever get the opportunity to experiment in this AAR (part of the learning saga, after all), but doubt it will happen with Rurik.
1. Right so normally if you want in on that sexy society action you just have to apply and they always say yes (I'm pretty sure they let literally anyone in who isn't part of another faction. You will see female Indian buddhists ruling learner societies filled with horse, Muslim and Christian men and women from across the world for example).
However, some societies actually have standards.
Namely, the evil ones.
Any who, they won't let you in unless you're evil in some demonstrable way, or you send out letters and spies begging them to let you in (or both, and there's also I think a random event running around somewhere). When you get into those, the reason for their secrecy and reticence becomes clear...they are by far and away the most powerful people in the world. If you rank up in these societies, you will be able to make soul slaves out of anyone in your court. You want to build a court of sex abuse? You can. Have everyone love you for life? Yup. Have them do silly dances until their hearts burst? ...it'll be in the next patch.
So yeah...secret religious sects will destroy your character's rep outside the realm and may randomly kill them but you will become a god in your own realm for the time that you have to enjoy it.
1. As a general note, I pretty much have to second what @stnylan has said: Aside from the secret evil fellowships (and to a lesser extent the hermeticists), I feel like M&M really gave the "(secret) societies" mechanic a bit of a short shrift. In a perfect world -- at least IMO -- in addition to the small selection of "permanent" societies we'd also have smaller, temporary, dynamically generated, goal-oriented associations (perhaps subsuming Plots and Factions into a single overall mechanic as well) with a lot more room for intra-group politicking, moles looking to subvert the organization's purpose from within (and ways to rat them out -- or assist them!), "group" rivalries, etc. Of course, this bit is mostly just me thinking out loud about what could be, and not strictly relevant to what is.
On that note: IIRC, on top of the fact that you need to be a "sinner" to join the Evil Cult, I believe Rurik's Zealous trait also disqualifies him from becoming a member as well, though I could be wrong about that. In any event, if you're going to get a character into the Evil Cult, you'll get the most mileage out of the experience if you approach it in full-on Faustian mode, throwing yourself headlong into the madness and the depravity without reservation. Just be prepared to do a little bit of soul-searching once you've finished -- there's a reason I deactivate the Evil Cults in my game, and it isn't merely because they're ridiculously, gloriously game-breaking.
Yes, from the little I’ve played (though read more) your and stnylan’s comments sound fair. On the Zealous attribute being a prohibition, the ‘show interest’ screen (you’ll see in the next update) does not list that as a prohibition. There would be justification for it not being a prohibition – or even being an advantage to joining. One’s Zealotry is for the religion as a whole and could well lean to the Dark Side. Especially when it is polytheistic and has a wide range of moral choices available for the serious devotee. But I can’t experiment with this character, given his lack of formally recognised sin!
1. Well this is just broken. I mean, it got a bit nerfed from the beginning, but even now any form of dark cult is extremely OP, and can really make the game a walk in the park. I've seen a few gameplay - I don't own Monks & Mystics myself - and I think especially Pravus showed how useful they can be. Of course you will have some rebellions or some rulers deaths here and there, but once you get how to use it you can build your kingdom of darkness and rule undisputed.
However, Rurik is Zelous. No broken Fellowship of Hel for him.
Per comment above, I think it is more the lack of sin than his zealotry preventing entry, but hey, I’m no expert (just a rank newbie in his first game) and I can’t experiment here. I could start up a separate test game, but don’t really have the time for it alas (with other AARs – reading and writing – and RL)! And I actually quite enjoy blundering around with my dear readers to explain the errors I make or provide helpful advice (informed by much more experience than any unscientific experimenting I might do in that way).
Thanks everyone: this was very helpful indeed. Rurik is duly warned about these Hellions!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession.OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.
Ah, thanks, found it. I will show the options that revealed themselves in the next update (though no doubt the experts among you would be able to figure it out anyway).
2. The nominate button in the upper right ought to let you see the candidates, which you can then back. Also, others may be swayed by your decision and also back said candidate.
OK, interesting to know. Whether Rurik takes that step is yet another part of his (and my meta-game) quandary. For him, it’s in-character and personal vs realm. For me, its about just letting Helgi inherit then going Slavic and forgetting the Norse quests (either seeking to reform Slavic Paganism instead or seeking conversion to one of the organised religions) or staying true to the Norse dream and having Rurik ensure it prevails by trying to move against Helgi before he can inherit and destroy it.
2. Click the Nominate button and it will bring up a list of eligible candidates. It only shows candidates for your highest tier title. This is one of the reasons to create the Kingdom of Rus and make sure you have no more than 1 subordinate Duke at any one time. You and characters of the tier below yours can vote, and your vote breaks ties. So a Grand Duke with 6 vassal counts has 7 electors (The Grand Duke and all 6 Counts), while a King with one vassal Duke and 6 vassal counts has but 2 electors (himself and the Duke) and the tie breaker in his pocket, so he can essentially vote for whomever he pleases and rest easy knowing that person will be King.
Hmm, this all sounds like it makes sense, but I won’t have it truly understood without need for careful reference before I actually go through one or more successions, I feel. It will be a peak time for learning points – and dealing with difficult consequences. Especially if Rurik were to peg out early!
2. You can use the button "Nominate" on the upper right corner of the heir list and therefore change the named heir. This is also the reason why you shouldn't form duchies immediately once you are a king, if you plan to give them away: Dukes can be elected and if their are slavic pagan they WILL be elected.
That reminds me: laws can be different for your various titles sometimes. From that screen, try clicking on the different crests to change which one is being considered. As mentioned in this feedback, sometimes that can mean different people nominated to the various titles, splitting your realm on death.
I'm going to have to be on the lookout for that when the time approaches. Though I'm bound to either stuff up or be unable to avoid some negative consequences, no matter how much good advice I get. Ya live 'n learn!
This is certainly true and something to bear in mind for people who want to build a large hegemonic empire rather than making one kingdom very large. If you want elective succession for the empire because of the great boosts it gives relations or for roleplaying whatever, having a few few kingdoms that will solidly remain yours and are tightly controlled by you (either you own every county or have max crown authority there) will come in handy. All sorts of interesting things become possible when you start experimenting with laws in different places (you can for example, if your empire is big enough, destroy papal independence in practice just by declaring free investiture everywhere and nominating all the bishops yourself).
I will see what becomes available if/when the time comes (and depending on the law sets and religious regime in the hoped-for Rus by then).
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat.OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1% vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?
3. I have no idea where the 80% comes from, it seems to have little to do with reality. For a faction to consider an ultimatum, it needs upwards of 70% strength (on the faction screen, not the intrigue screen). And even then, it can be useful to let them rebel, because you get an opinion bonus for beating them.
3. Ignore the threat percentage when calculating whether or not a faction will fire. A faction will only fire when the leader of the faction believes he has enough troops supporting the faction to enforce his will on the ruler. The threat percentage is an old game mechanic IIRC. Back in the olden days before factions were a thing, that was part of the calculation for vassals rebelling, which would always be by themselves with no thought given to how swiftly they'd be crushed on their own.
3. Ignore them. I have never, ever seen someone get independence without PC help. Unless you do something ridiculous like make Europe and Africa hate you so much they make a grand alliance against you (which I deffo wasn't stupid enough to do...twice...) then you should be fine.
3. In line with what's already been said: I'm still figuring out what the "Threat" readout actually means in practical terms, and I prefer to rely on my own experience and intuition instead. The Faction Strength measure is much more straightforward, and consequently much more useful in estimating who might actually be a threat to the realm's stability.
3. The treath sometimes gets a bit fuzzy. But as someone said above, don't worry, I have seen only a few rebellions actually succeed when not led by the player, and those came from king level rulers revolting against the Emperor, or from a great alliance of strong dukes against a king - and my absolute first game when I still had no idea how to play and the Holy Roman Empire got defeated by the italians but that was just me making stupid noob mistakes because this AAR didn't exist back in the days.
All very conclusive: I’m reassured that my own inability to find or deduce any relevance or significant effect for this factor is so widely shared!
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Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county?So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?
4. Straight binary. You are in control or you have nothing.
Think of it in terms of majority. It's all well and good telling the people what to believe but if fifty or more percent of the local populace will report, antagonise or murder anyone who goes against your religion...well, you aren't going to have a problem in that county are you? So basically you're trying to convert as many people in each county as possible to the one true faith of whatever and then telling them to batter everyone else into submission.
4. It's all or nothing for provinces, I'm afraid. This game doesn't have any detailed Pop dynamics like Vic2 or Stellaris. On the character level, as others have said the "secret religion" societies allow you to publicly profess one faith while secretly adhering to and trying to spread another.
4. Religion is all or nothing: that region is Slavic pagan, a vast majority of the inhabitants are Slavic Pagan. That's why converting them is so important - and a real pain.
Again, all very clear and as I suspected, but wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. So a conversion just fires if, over time, the trigger fires, but not by building to a certain point or %, at which time it flips over. There are very many moving parts to this game: I guess we should expect some to be a bit simplified.
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Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet.From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!
I’ll do the Idhrendur-inspired ‘experiment sub-thread’ first, even if the later posts came in between some of these:
5. I actually ran the experiment @Idhrendur suggested, and the results are somewhat surprising: Apparently, if the event boats are carrying troops, the game won't disband them on the ruler's death! They'll disband if they're empty, though, no matter where they (or your armies) are, so if you're worried about losing them while out raiding it might be wise to detach a tiny levy to "watch the boats" while the main force goes out to plunder.
Nice work – thanks for going to the trouble! Useful to know and nice idea about the boat guards: it may be a loophole exploit in-game, but actually has some logic to sustain it.
Event troops disperse on character death though (unless that's changed?) so presumably you'd have to make sure that you had some levy in those boats at all times, not event guys.
In any case, from personal experience I would be wary of losing men to boat glitches. I lost thousands of men and thousands more in gold for losing around three quarters of my professional standing army coming back from a Crusade. It took decades for them to finally despawn or disappear from where've the game had vanished them off to. For a small army realm like this one...that could be a game ending bug,
Sounds like a diabolical trap. I’ll try to keep it as simple as possible, but you never know what can happen in the big city – or on the unfriendly seas.
5. The fleet will disband immediately upon ruler death and you'll lose everything that is on it, including all troops and loot, IIRC. Haven't lost one at sea in a while, so I'm a bit fuzzy on remembering to be honest. If someone says differently, they may be right.
Whether that or some variation per the experiment, I’m going to try very hard not to find out one way or the other! But some risks will need to be taken if those ships are to be used before Rurik shuffles off.
5. If you want to use it, use it immediately, otherwise it will fail at the worst moment and yes, armies on board don't magically teleport to freedom. As we all know, Vikings can't swim. Swimming is for dead monks.
Noted, as qualified by the above to-and-fro. But the ‘use now’ advice confirms Rurik’s thoughts on this. As to whether he decides to conquer or raid again first … we’ll have to wait to the next translation of the Rurikid Chronicles to find out!
Ah, that is the beauty of the collective wisdom of the þing! We now have much more info than we did before Rurik asked his question.
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Ch21 Q6: River Travel.I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.
6. Yes, you can be the terror of the Black sea if you wish. It's worth 'scouting' some targets by clicking on the counties, seeing how many defenders they have, and maybe checking how many troops the rulers can pull up. It still might be worth it even if you can't sack a city, but you'll have to be vigilant to hop back on your boats before a large army shows. If you do that, you might even split off a few boats to lift the fog of war on more distant coastal provinces to have warning. Something might still come out of Anatolia by surprise (there's no strait-blocking), but you could anticipate armies out of Greece while sacking the city of men's desire.
6. 1600 men will be enough in the Black Sea, as anywhere else. I'd target Venice to be honest. The top holding is a city, not a castle, so it'll raid down quickly and be worth tons of loot. As always, focus on one or two county minor powers to minimize your risk. The only thing to take care of raiding in Italy and the Black Sea is that the softest targets (Rome and Venice) will both relentlessly summon mercenaries (The Pope) and retinues (Venice) to attack you. It's kind of a pain in the ass but if you land enough troops to win the first battle you're usually in the clear. Just watch for the Pope summoning mercs from his other counties.
6. This is absolutely correct. The chief thing to keep in mind is that the Med (particularly the Eastern Med) is both more advanced and more (relatively) politically stable, meaning higher Fort levels and bigger armies chasing your raiders. On the other hand, that also means that their provinces make richer targets... In any case, you should still be able to make good use of the "loot and scoot" strategy, maybe even sacking a target of opportunity here or there.
6. Yup, River travel is the best thing Norse people have up their sleeve. I second the opinion on sailing to Rome or Venice, and I also suggest Genoa. Also, I think you can sail through a river to the Caspian Sea, and there are a few holding there that are worth a shot.
Rather than addressing each piece of advice specifically, I’ll summarise, as they were very consistent in general terms. There could be some good opportunity targets around the Caspian and Black Seas and in Anatolia and Greece. But the consensus seems to be around Italia: Rome, Venice, Genoa etc. And avid readers may recall Rurik’s earlier recon to Sardinia to meet Ingjerðr while he was raiding in Cornwall some years back (based in part on some previous þing advice). But in all cases, while a raiding force of around 1,600 should suffice for such raiding, one needs to be aware of well-developed lands with their larger/stronger fortifications and the possibilities of strong reaction forces being summoned. No reward without risk!
General. And just to comment on the game start options...you might want to think of a plan to avoid the world dying from twin Mongol and Aztec invasions. My advice would be to build a strong empire yourself and then start fostering tough client kingdoms around you because if Western Europe and the Balkans aren't ready, they both get wiped by these guys.
Looks like I have prepared some interesting later-game learning points for myself. The Sunset Invasion one I’d either not intended or forgotten, but the Mongol one was deliberate. Indeed, building Rus and a set of alliances (if possible) to resist them is one of the fundamental objectives of the game.
Good news: Once young Buðli comes of age to be educated (6 years old) you can use a character decision to reset his education focus to Heritage, then assign him to a Norse Germanic guardian (prefereably Rurik himself, naturally) so that he has a much greater chance of adhering to the customs and beliefs of his noble ancestors! This allows you to hedge your bets somewhat even if Helgi himself ends up inheriting.
Interesting permutation. Though I’m thinking if Helgi does inherit, and either I can’t force him to convert as the player-owner or doing so seems too gamey-cheesy to do in all good conscience, then it may be he seeks to overturn that part of his father’s heritage whilst preserving his dream of uniting the Rus/expanding its empire. Then there will be a whole painful process of Slavic vs Norse religion in reverse. Though the Slavs are in the vast majority in the country, if not now in the court. Could be a bit like Henry VIII/Mary/Elizabeth I all over again!
1. I decided to add this to my read list as well so you owe my boss 8 hours of productive work day from today. I managed to read all the way to here. I played CK a lot but never played CKII however I read some AARs and stuff. Your good writing of 2nd WW persists in middle ages as well.
2. During my read I always thought why sail all the way to Ireland instead of navigating downriver of Volga to Caspian sea, and it seems you can go for Black Sea via Baltic as well. Keep Caspian Sea in mind as well if there are underdefended rich provinces.
3. One question: Why did you only take Zaozerye and left the rest? If you took all the provinces I believe northernmost province was a coastal one thus you could've built your own ships.
4. Another question: If you are worried about the death of your ruler thus losing the ships etc, why aren't you more worried about the loss of prestige? I thought it didn't passed on to the heir if the ruler dies so maybe you'd better raise that army as well and maybe make some wars parallel to raiding.
1. Again, thanks so much for adding this humble AAR to your reading list! Your boss can send me the bill if you’re game enough to ask it of him! Rurik can pay in good plundered gold.
2. Indeed. That first raid was for learning purposes and wasn’t too far, but for a Rus-based Norse, this river approach seems logical.
3. Only Zaozerye was part of the greater de jure Rus claim. And you can only conquer one province at a time. I didn’t really want the hassle of subjugating the whole High Chiefdom, so in that case was happy to settle for just taking the one county – which also has a nice river boundary for defence. What I wasn’t happy to do was lose a large amount of my levy in the snows on the way back, but that’s another sad newbie story.
4. I do intend to use the prestige (although I think I’ve read some of it is passed on). It’s more deciding what to spend it on and when. Many of my better buildings now require prestige to build as a tribal ruler, while I don’t want to raise the tribal army unless I have to. If I was to take virtually all my levies off on a raid, for instance, I might want to keep the tribal army in store as an emergency reserve to call on back home. At least until I can build me treasury up again to add mercenaries to the list of options. And I still think Rurik should have a few years to live yet. But once his ships go, I can’t really rebuild a fleet, not quickly, anyway (given how land-locked I am, that the nearby coastal provinces aren’t part of the Rus claim so would be a diversion when that clock is also ticking, shipbuilding facilities would be expensive take a long time to repay the investment). Whereas a buildings will last and a new King can rebuild prestige.
I’m loving the Rurik/Helgi conundrum? Decisions decisions. I’m wondering whether the kings indecision is the worst of all worlds. I guess we’ll soon see. Personally I’d be laying the law down and delivering my recalcitrant son some ultimatums.
Thank you so much – I really treasure the comments on the other parts of the narrative and characters. It really is a big conundrum, and the gavelkind succession mechanics introduce yet another difficult decision point for Rurik: he can’t force Helgi to recant his Slavic gods (not without a reformed Norse faith and relevant laws, which would be years away, likely after Rurik’s death); so should he start moving now to swing support behind one of his Norse sons by Ingjerðr? In effect condoning – if not directly supporting – her murder plot against Helgi? Could that itself promote a dangerous rift at the wrong time for the young realm? Great story fodder, but not an easy decision to make, especially for a newbie who can only guess (and make the best he can of advice) at the consequences.
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Thank you all so much for once again for providing such excellent comments and sharing your knowledge. I’m very sure I’m not the only one finding it all very informative. In some cases here, we’ve really drilled down through some arcane but useful knowledge!
And special thanks to new commenters/contributors also. Remember, for those watching but not commenting, there is no obligation to answer all questions if you have a quick comment you’d like to offer on one of them, while I really also welcome general comments or those on the pure narrative/story aspects too, which I also try not to neglect too much, even with the gameplay learning component: it is indeed both for learning and to be a Saga, so I will always try to balance those aspects.
I know it’s been a bit of a break since the last update, but WW2 and RL have been occupying the time in between. Rurik’s turn next! He will take on board all this good advice, consult the Gods, and decide on his next steps soon … and try not to butcher it (just his opponents)!
Well...I don't know yet because I've noticed them only in the two games I played recently (the Venice game and the Byzantine game) and was a member in both because it was fun and fitted the characters well. What I've learnt from all socities that I've played (because I've joined the hermetic society loads as well) is that they are all overnight the map and you never know who they are until you are a member. So unless the character in the society starts being obvious and uses loads of spells and whatnot to make himself all powerful in his own realm, you aren't going to know until then. So yeah...be watchful and try to deduce based on how they are acting. The game does have a suspicion mechanic attached to your own character to try and stop you from overdoing it (revealing yourself to other powerful kings and such if you go too far) but I have no idea if this is the case for the AI.
They are active, at least the assassins and the Dominicans are. The hermetics are very active too but you'd never notice because it just boosts personal stats and prestige. I not know about devil worshippers but if you do stumble onto a coven of them and their lands become yours...I'd be careful.
Again, all very clear and as I suspected, but wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. So a conversion just fires if, over time, the trigger fires, but not by building to a certain point or %, at which time it flips over. There are very many moving parts to this game: I guess we should expect some to be a bit simplified.
It is a very complicated area to cover tbf and in this period generally based on rituals and religiosity, not actual dogmatic worship. It's basically saying the local customs are no where aligned with christanty and the priest is the prominent spiritualist in the area etc.
But in all cases, while a raiding force of around 1,600 should suffice for such raiding, one needs to be aware of well-developed lands with their larger/stronger fortifications and the possibilities of strong reaction forces being summoned. No reward without risk!
Which is why we say republican, because their main tile for counties (that is, the first place you have to siege out when landing there) is a city, which is never going to be as hard to attack as a castle and also full of riches to plunder right from tile one. Basically if you just attacked the surface tile, you'd quickly and easily get get loads of money than you would have done having to siege out every tile to get to the cities in Byzantium for example. Rome is similarly weak and easy. A church is their main tile.
Looks like I have prepared some interesting later-game learning points for myself. The Sunset Invasion one I’d either not intended or forgotten, but the Mongol one was deliberate. Indeed, building Rus and a set of alliances (if possible) to resist them is one of the fundamental objectives of the game.
Good. I can't really advices on the Aztec invasion because I haven't played that far into the game yet but ivenbeennfightingnversions of the Mongols in ever strategy game with them in for years. It's always the same idea of not letting them get established as a land owning power, getting a big alliance to wear the most down, crushing them at sea whenever they try and having an empire and friends big enough to outlast what the game spawned for them.
But the problem here is that they already exist on the map, they are too far away to do anything about but close enough to go after you soon enough...and the west is going to nonstop attack you as well, possibly with crusades by that point. If the Aztec s show up at the same time the world is in big trouble.
Nice.
Well...I don't know yet because I've noticed them only in the two games I played recently (the Venice game and the Byzantine game) and was a member in both because it was fun and fitted the characters well. What I've learnt from all socities that I've played (because I've joined the hermetic society loads as well) is that they are all overnight the map and you never know who they are until you are a member. So unless the character in the society starts being obvious and uses loads of spells and whatnot to make himself all powerful in his own realm, you aren't going to know until then. So yeah...be watchful and try to deduce based on how they are acting. The game does have a suspicion mechanic attached to your own character to try and stop you from overdoing it (revealing yourself to other powerful kings and such if you go too far) but I have no idea if this is the case for the AI.
They are active, at least the assassins and the Dominicans are. The hermetics are very active too but you'd never notice because it just boosts personal stats and prestige. I not know about devil worshippers but if you do stumble onto a coven of them and their lands become yours...I'd be careful.
It is a very complicated area to cover tbf and in this period generally based on rituals and religiosity, not actual dogmatic worship. It's basically saying the local customs are no where aligned with christanty and the priest is the prominent spiritualist in the area etc.
Which is why we say republican, because their main tile for counties (that is, the first place you have to siege out when landing there) is a city, which is never going to be as hard to attack as a castle and also full of riches to plunder right from tile one. Basically if you just attacked the surface tile, you'd quickly and easily get get loads of money than you would have done having to siege out every tile to get to the cities in Byzantium for example. Rome is similarly weak and easy. A church is their main tile.
Good. I can't really advices on the Aztec invasion because I haven't played that far into the game yet but ivenbeennfightingnversions of the Mongols in ever strategy game with them in for years. It's always the same idea of not letting them get established as a land owning power, getting a big alliance to wear the most down, crushing them at sea whenever they try and having an empire and friends big enough to outlast what the game spawned for them.
But the problem here is that they already exist on the map, they are too far away to do anything about but close enough to go after you soon enough...and the west is going to nonstop attack you as well, possibly with crusades by that point. If the Aztec s show up at the same time the world is in big trouble.
Thanks for the supplementary comments TBC. Rurik is definitely eyeing off those rich merchant republics (if such they are in 875-6 CE). Chapter 23 (played and screenshot edited but not yet written up) will shed more light on his 'where next' plans. But for now, there are the lands of the Greeks to be pillaged as a warm-up bout.
Chapter 22: Sword, Sea and Sack (5 July to 26 December 875)
Chapter 22: Sword, Sea and Sack (5 July to 26 December 875)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … the King has left the matter of the murder conspiracy by his wife the Queen against his son and heir, Helgi, in the lap of the Gods for now – in the hope that Odin’s wisdom may come his way in time. Following a couple of successful conquests for the Dream of Rus – if expensive in levies lost largely through misadventure – the King must now decide between more conquest at home or a raid abroad, through the rivers of the interior to the Black Sea. He receives much wisdom and knowledge from the eighth full þing of his reign, but while they provide great advice, they cannot make his decisions for him.
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5 July 875
As we have seen, Gumarich der Schrieber took copious notes for Chancellor and Lawspeaker Hrörekr during the þing of 5 March 875 CE. These were presented to King Rurik fresh from his difficult – and inconclusive – discussion with his son. There was a short discussion of some of the key findings, which Gumarich duly recorded and thereby bequeathed to posterity.
The þing of 5 July 875 CE, the Eighth of Rurik’s Reign.
“These Hellions sound like they require more investigation. I shall talk more to the Godi about them separately,” said Rurik to his Chancellor, after looking at his report. “Let us move on to other issues.”
What Rurik did not want to say aloud was that, from the information he had been provided, any otherwise good Norse man or woman with even one 'sinful' aspect to their nature could be prone to this Fellowship. This gave him pause: as he could not know who may be a member of this grouping, he did not want to voice his concerns to those more likely to be in the sway of this secret society. He trusted the Godi as a confidant – there was not a more loyal, holy or goodly Norseman in the realm! Though not a paranoid man, Rurik mentally reviewed his inner circle – the Council – and vassals to see who could be members. [Or on The Highway to Hel, as one might put it!]
His private journal notes for that day were found among the Rurikid scroll trove. First, Rurik wrote, although the Slavs may have their own equivalent societies, Helgi – though replete with many sins – was not a follower of the Germanic religion, so could not be a follower of Hel.The bona fides of the rest of my Council are a mixed bag. Neither my wife nor the Godi have the character for it. But Hrörekr’s envy could lead him down that path, while Alfgeir himself is a man of dark depths. Though all are very loyal to me, at least. It is just that some may have secret loyalties and dark powers of which I am dangerously unaware.
He or she who is with sin may cast the first spell!
His vassals were mainly of Slavic persuasion, so were not qualified to join the minions of Hel. Of Rurik's two Norse vassals, one was the Godi himself (through his holding of the Temple of Tikhvin, one of the Norse Holy Sites) and the other - young Chief Grimr of Smaleskja - was a boy of five and therefore years away from being eligible to join, even if he did develop sinful traits as an adult.
“Hrörekr, tell me more on our succession laws.”
“My Liege, as a traditional Germanic Jarldom, we practice elective gavelkind for male heirs. There are now seven electors, yourself and six vassals, with the recent addition of Chief Miemo. You have the casting vote in event of a tie. All electors have currently pledged their votes to Prince Helgi.” The Chancellor pauses, both to look at his notes and for effect. “It is in your power to nominate another. This may influence the vote of others but that is not guaranteed. And I am not sure whether it may be possible to actively lobby the others to change their votes. But in the end, the choice remains theirs.”
“I see Hrörekr. And you left unsaid what effect such a change of my vote may have on my relationship with my son, if I was to declare that on religious grounds. Of that, I myself am unsure, even if none of the others were to follow my lead.”
“Yes, my Liege. These are uncharted waters for us all in Holmgarðr. If I may, I have prepared a list of those others who are, by right of direct descent from you, eligible to be candidates for succession.”
Ch22 Q1: Influencing Elections.OK, now that I have, with the help of you my dear readers, obtained an elementary working knowledge of the nomination mechanics, I do have a supplementary question, as highlighted by the Chancellor. But I'm not game to play with it yet, as Rurik is not yet ready to abandon Helgi, even though his decision rests on a knife's edge. Should Rurik break and support one of his other sons instead, is there any interaction that allows him to directly seek to change another elector's vote (requests, calling in favours, threats etc)? Or is it just a passive process in that he must hope his change might influence others? My suspicion is the bulk of electors (his vassals) are in fact of Slavic religious persuasion so - despite their almost universal mild dislike for Helgi, most are likely to stick with him anyway. Especially if Rurik can't actively intervene to 'persuade' them.
Rurik peered at the list; piercing eyes under a dark, shaggy mane of hair. “My son Eilif is the most senior of the Germanic contenders but is still so young. Though only four, he does show promise. His brother Dyre and ‘nephew’ Budli are but infants. And Budli is being raised a Slav by Helgi.” He cannot keep a frustrated scowl from his face. “Very well, Hrörekr, my thanks for that thorough review. I’ll not make any change in my preference. For now. But I will consider the ramifications and seek Odin’s counsel on this matter.”
“My Liege, I would now talk of the matter of the fleet, on which you sought more guidance. The þing heard from the captains of the ships. As you have been previously counselled, they pledge their loyalty to you personally and have sworn an oath to serve you for all your days. But they will consider themselves released from that oath on your passing – may Thor protect you from that for many years to come, my King. It was thought any troops on board would be safely put ashore, but any on land while the ships are at sea would likely be stranded. So, with the building of a formidable fleet of our own a mere dream for now, any worthwhile raiding will need to be done while the captains still cleave to your leadership. But there are risks involved for the army should the worst befall while they are overseas and raiding.”
“Understood. This will definitely influence my decision on where we may head next – to Tver and conquest then a hearty raid, or in the other order. On that, did they confirm the rivers would be navigable from the Baltic all the way through to the Black Sea? And that the various Chiefs and Kings between will grant us peaceful passage of those waterways?”
“The captains did so agree, while all the learned present concurred. Many also suggested rich places worthy of your attentions, especially in Anatolia, Greece and Italia. But they also advised to beware the great castles guarding many such places and the risk of large armies or mercenaries being called to respond. They suggested looking for soft targets and rich pickings that can be quickly taken. In many cases, it may be best to scour the hinterlands but bypass large castles.”
“Aye, taking even the smaller ones in Britannia was a time-consuming business, though the takings were richer, including hostages. I will bear these views in mind, when next I do invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle. Thank you Hrörekr, for such a useful report. Could you please ask the Godi to attend me and then I would convene a full meeting of the Council.”
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The Godi þorolfr was soon in attendance. Gumarich had been deemed above suspicion regarding susceptibility to the Fellowship of Hel. He was by now Rurik’s trusted Keeper of Secrets as well as Scribe and was permitted to stay to take notes.
“þorolfr, I will have none of this Fellowship of Hel. All we know is that they exist, not who any of the members are. Be on the lookout for them. Anyone with a sinful trait who is a follower of our true Norse-Germanic Gods could be a member. Let us watch for any tell-tale signs. These Hellions seem to wish for Ragnarok to come early and to take Loki’s side when it does. I will surely welcome Valhalla when the time comes for me to travel there but I know on whose side I will fight at Ragnarok. And I do not want these dark sorcerers to visit the evil it presages upon this world in our lifetimes.”
“My King, may Odin, Thor, Freya and the other Gods - Loki excepted - give us the wisdom to see, the strength to resist and compassion to overcome Loki’s wiles. I will report anything I discover, using only reliable people to do this work and to communicate it to you.”
“Good man. Now let us bring in the others. There are some decisions to be delivered and arrangements to make.”
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The Council was now mustered - excepting the Queen, who remained in far Constantinople. The council room at this time had a low timber ceiling, with raised dais for the king’s throne at one end and a large trestle table with benches in the middle. The Council members and attendants sat around it, Rurik seated at its head. He began proceedings with his customary confidence, significant presence and considerable personal charm.
“My available personal demesne levies and regiment, with þorolfr’s ever-reliable ‘half-century’, number 1,600 men combined after our recent trials and some subsequent recruitment. Royal prestige is strong. We must do something with both of those assets.”
Rurik’s eagle's gaze surveys all in the room. It rests on Helgi.
“Helgi, call the levies back to arms and have them muster … in Ingria. We go to the ships and then to raid the rich lands of the Mediterranean!”
A cheer echoes around his council room, Detailed orders will be passed out later, the captains alerted, counties mustered, provisions assembled and marches commenced. It will all take some time.
“My two youngest children have their mother in Constantinople …” Rurik ignores a dark look from Helgi “… while their father will be raiding. They must have guardians. Alfgeir, I want you to take young Dyre under your protection and, when he is old enough to take it, give him your tutelage on matters of the realm’s wealth.”
“A very great honour, King Rurik. I pledge my very best efforts to look after the young man in all things.”
“The babe Ulfhildr will be guided by Bodil, the wife of the loyal Sverker, my lead commander after the Prince-Marshal. I’m sure she will be like a second mother to her.”
“Alfgeir, I have decided, on Helgi’s sound advice, to have a weaponsmith come to Nygarðr. I care not how much prestige I must use to attract the right master and apprentices. The work will be long to build it and it is our rate of reinforcement and training rather than the maximum capacity of our levies that requires boosting. I would like one built in Ladoga too in time, but this will be enough for now. There may be other calls on my prestige should an emergency arise in the meantime.”
“I realise we run a small risk here that I may not quite have the prestige in the eyes of our people to summon a tribal army should it become necessary, or not have the coin to hire enough mercenaries in an extreme circumstance. But a few months and a few victories should help things."
"Of course, a successful raid will bring much prestige – I hope enough to lure another weaponsmith to our lands and to still have reputation enough to summon tribal warriors and gold for mercenaries if necessary. The raid is the key to all that: it must be quick and lucrative, as we still have much work to do back here to build Rus.”
He turns to Helgi. “Son, you will remain here to continue your excellent work of training our levies. While we are away, our pool of trained men will be growing. I hope to be sparing with the army on this raid – every man is needed for the years to come and the struggles we have ahead of us.”
Helgi nods respectfully in response. And secretly welcomes the fact he will not be called on to fight again. Just to jump at shadows and expect murderers to be lurking around every corner!
“Very well, that is all." Rurik stands, signalling an end to talk - and a beginning for action. "Warriors to the ships! The rest to your tasks! Great adventures and glory lie ahead of us – through Blood and Battle!”
Heart cries of “Blood and Battle!” and "King Rurik" echo around the chamber. This is what the Norsemen really enjoy!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
August 875
By the end of August, the march of all the contingents to the ships in Ingria was complete. The Sacred Raiding Toggle was invoked, sacrifices made and the Gods’ blessing for a successful raid received. The army embarked, with the ‘old team’ of Rurik, Sverker and Dan in command. Rurik had said nothing to Dan all this time about his knowledge of the murder plot on Helgi: practicality and politics have won out for now against personal sentiment. As for how just and honourable all this may be - we will have to imagine the difficulties and moral torment this created for Rurik. Hardness of purpose and honour can sometimes make strange bedfellows.
For this trip, a special assistant will travel with Rurik: Gumarich der Schreiber had longed to see the great civilisations and centres of learning of the Mediterranean. He has been permitted to accompany Rurik on this voyage, using the opportunity to get some of his journeymen and apprentices better accustomed to the ways of the court while he ministers to the King’s needs as scribe and personal secretary. Among his papers was an annotated map of the proposed route from Ingria to the Black Sea.
September 875
As the army sailed south along the great rivers of the hinterland, the King’s observatory was completed back at Nygarðr. While he was not present to conduct research himself, he had learned men engaged to carry out the work. With his change of focus to learning, this will further improve the one area among Rurik’s many fine attributes and abilities that could be said to be somewhat lacking.
October 875
Mid-October found the fleet in the heart of the fellow Norse-ruled kingdom of Könugarðr. Rurik and his men were briefly entertained at the court of King Dyre ‘the Stranger’ (presumably named such as a result of him being, like Rurik, a Norse ruler among Slavs and other peoples). Rurik noted Dyre had two children much the same age as his own younger sons and daughters. Inevitably, thoughts of possible marriages of advantage came to mind. But so did caution: Könugarðr would be part of the dreamed-of Rus nation. Could a marriage alliance later get in the way of necessary military action to bring the realm into Rus? He would have to think on this. But for now, relations were most cordial between these fellow Norse Kings. King Dyre, like Rurik, was an accomplished all-round leader, whose particular forte was diplomacy and seemly speech. The visitors felt they celebrated in a home away from home in fair Könugarðr.
Ch22 Q2: Betrothals. I haven’t got around to arranging any of these for the King’s younger children yet – deliberately so. Not sure yet which places I may want to have as allies and which I may need to attack, and the children are still mainly very young. But I will have to get to it at some point. I’m reasonably familiar with the ideas, advantages, etc for making these arrangements from reading AARs, but they are mainly set in France and England, a few hundred years later and with different legal setups, geographical circumstances and religious considerations. Any initial general or specific advice for Rurik at this stage would be welcome. He will be considering it while he is off on his latest raiding adventure.
As they sailed further south, the effects of approaching winter were counteracted by the increasingly warm and temperate climate. Less than two weeks later, they had arrived in the Black Sea, off the Crimea on the Coast of Taurida. They then set sail for ancient (and they hoped still wealthy) Greece. Athens itself and its hinterland would be their ‘warm-up’ raid. They would not be expecting Viking raiders there, Rurik was willing to bet! He hoped to get in and away before the Byzantines were able to react strongly. They would then sail further west, to even greater riches.
November 865
Ah, this is the life, thought Rurik to himself as they sailed south through the clear and (to them) warm November waters of the Aegean Sea. And they call this cool!?
The fleet arrived in the Western Aegean Sea, anchoring off Athens and its surrounding county of Atheniai on 18 November. When passing through Constantinople, they had secured information on Doux Pantherios. This had been provided covertly by Ingjerðr through an intermediary, as with the impending events she could not compromise her own cover in this city of intrigue. Pantherios was an elderly man, of no great military ability and possessed of only modest – and hopefully unprepared – levies. And he was designated regent for the East Roman Emperor - what good that may do him in what would soon be his dire plight. Rurik had little regard for that, or for him. They would strike his capital county first, seize what they could and then improvise from there.
The orders were given, the army – somewhat rusty and disorganised after weeks on the boats - deployed, and the available loot in the county of Atheniai was assessed by the quartermaster. Much would be protected behind Athens’ strong defences. But much could be had from the countryside.
After a little over a week, everything was in place. The army lay outside Athens itself while parties scoured the countryside for loot to be sent back to the ships. Shocked locals, completely unprepared, were forced to hand over their valuables, which they did without a fight. Rurik’s siege master reported his assessment to the King.
“King Rurik, these walls before us are strong. Even with our recent improvements in siege craft, we would be forced to starve them out. I calculate that, barring any unforeseen factors – either favourable or not – it would take more than nine months to do so. Then the softer holdings would still take time after that to reduce – I cannot tell until we may have the vantage of them.”
“I see, Bjorn. It is as we thought and as we were warned. Their greatest riches are well protected and we have not the time to sit around here too long, waiting for our enemies to finally gather a force to contest us.”
Turning aside to his chief lieutenant, Rurik issued the required orders.
“Sverker, we will keep them bottled up here and see to the scouring of the lands around for all that can be easily carried. Unless interrupted, when we are done with that we will either head to one of Doux Pantherios’ other counties to administer more of the same, or if the riches do not look worthy enough of the effort or odds turn against us, set sail again to look for other opportunities further west.”
Of course, this raid will earn the hostility of the Romans: whether they did anything about it or let the unfortunate Pantherios fend for himself … well, the Gods would determine that.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
And here we will leave the fierce and adventurous Rurik Rurikid and his raiding Norsemen for now: another instalment of the Chronicles has been translated from the notes left by Rurik and his faithful scribe, but for the sake of time and space and the requirement to edit them, these events will be held over and published shortly.
Will Rurik’s thirst for battle, blood and treasure be satisfied? Will the hapless Doux Pantherios muster his levies or receive help from the rest of the Empire? Will Queen Ingjerðr be able to keep a sufficiently low profile in Constantinople at this time of tension with the Empire? And will this adversely affect her continuing work there, prying out the secrets of the Byzantine’s advanced laws and sciences? All this and much more in the next update, out soon!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Questions
Just a couple of questions for now, as not a great deal of new ground is being broken. But more general comments on the plot or play are of course always very welcome. Note, this period has been played through until March 876 CE: I have broken it up to keep things manageable. After Chapter 23, there will be a military Folkmote to discuss next steps for this Great Southern Raid.
Ch22 Q1: Influencing Elections.OK, now that I have, with the help of you my dear readers, obtained an elementary working knowledge of the nomination mechanics, I do have a supplementary question, as highlighted by the Chancellor. But I'm not game to play with it yet, as Rurik is not yet ready to abandon Helgi, even though his decision rests on a knife's edge. Should Rurik break and support one of his other sons instead, is there any interaction that allows him to directly seek to change another elector's vote (requests, calling in favours, threats etc)? Or is it just a passive process in that he must hope his change might influence others? My suspicion is the bulk of electors (his vassals) are in fact of Slavic religious persuasion so - despite their almost universal mild dislike for Helgi, most are likely to stick with him anyway. Especially if Rurik can't actively intervene to 'persuade' them.
Ch22 Q2: Betrothals.I haven’t got around to arranging any of these for the King’s younger children yet – deliberately so. Not sure yet which places I may want to have as allies and which I may need to attack, and the children are still mainly very young. But I will have to get to it at some point. I’m reasonably familiar with the ideas, advantages etc for making these arrangements from reading AARs, but they are mainly set in France and England, a few hundred years later and with different legal setups, geographical circumstances and religious considerations. Any initial general or specific advice for Rurik at this stage would be welcome. He will be considering it while he is off on his latest raiding adventure.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
The Athenian Acropolis, dominated by the mighty Parthenon, as it would have been seen by Rurik and Gumarich in 875 CE.
The Parthenon is a former temple on the Athenian Acropolis, Greece, dedicated to the goddess Athena, whom the people of Athens considered their patron. Construction began in 447 BC when the Athenian Empire was at the peak of its power. It was completed in 438 BC although decoration of the building continued until 432 BC. It is the most important surviving building of Classical Greece, generally considered the zenith of the Doric order. Its decorative sculptures are considered some of the high points of Greek art. The Parthenon is regarded as an enduring symbol of Ancient Greece, Athenian democracy and western civilization, and one of the world's greatest cultural monuments.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Gumarich recorded that all were amazed at the sight of this magnificent wonder of the ancient world. He wrote that he was very glad that it would be seen but not sacked on this expedition:
“I hope this great symbol of human advancement will stand unblemished for another 1,300 years as it has done so far. Surely no-one would be so short-sighted or lacking in culture and sense of history to ever use it for military purposes, compass its destruction nor put it in danger of such.”
It is well for him that Gumarich could not see that far into the future.
Ch22 Q1: Influencing Elections.OK, now that I have, with the help of you my dear readers, obtained an elementary working knowledge of the nomination mechanics, I do have a supplementary question, as highlighted by the Chancellor. But I'm not game to play with it yet, as Rurik is not yet ready to abandon Helgi, even though his decision rests on a knife's edge. Should Rurik break and support one of his other sons instead, is there any interaction that allows him to directly seek to change another elector's vote (requests, calling in favours, threats etc)? Or is it just a passive process in that he must hope his change might influence others? My suspicion is the bulk of electors (his vassals) are in fact of Slavic religious persuasion so - despite their almost universal mild dislike for Helgi, most are likely to stick with him anyway. Especially if Rurik can't actively intervene to 'persuade' them.
Both I think. You can just passively watch as people switch sides (they do tend to support strong rulers they like who have chosen a good claim candidate) or you can just eliminate or bribe people into liking your guy more/not being around to vote otherwise.
Ch22 Q2: Betrothals.I haven’t got around to arranging any of these for the King’s younger children yet – deliberately so. Not sure yet which places I may want to have as allies and which I may need to attack, and the children are still mainly very young. But I will have to get to it at some point. I’m reasonably familiar with the ideas, advantages etc for making these arrangements from reading AARs, but they are mainly set in France and England, a few hundred years later and with different legal setups, geographical circumstances and religious considerations. Any initial general or specific advice for Rurik at this stage would be welcome. He will be considering it while he is off on his latest raiding adventure.
Well in this era of the game, Hungary and a Frankish kingdom usually end up on top in Europe, provided the Spanish Muslims don't kill everyone. So Hungary and (probably) France or Germany (whichever wins that fight) would be safe choices. Getting involved with Britannia and picking a faction to unite the islands will provide a safe and increasingly powerful ally far away from your enemies reach (but as most vassals have coastline, everyone has a navy there so that's no problem). However, you would have to either conquer the place yourself or be really nice to an already existing kingdom and help them with every single war they go into to get that benefit. So perhaps instead try to make friends with a powerful Scandinavian realm and integrate yourself with them, since you'll probably end up expanding there anyway at some point (might as well up the possibility of personal unions and such).
Gumarich recorded that all were amazed at the sight of this magnificent wonder of the ancient world. He wrote that he was very glad that it would be seen but not sacked on this expedition:
“I hope this great symbol of human advancement will stand unblemished for another 1,300 years as it has done so far. Surely no-one would be so short-sighted or lacking in culture and sense of history to ever use it for military purposes, compass its destruction nor put it in danger of such.”
It is well for him that Gumarich could not see that far into the future.
It is unfortunate that of all the great temples of the classical era that survive, this one got blown up the most. And it's in Greece, in the middle of a city, at its highest point. So pollution and neglect have done quite a number on the ruins that have survived venetian bombardment and Ottoman control. There is a restoration project but it's been forty years and jack has been done really. I suppose since the Byzantines liked tearing down old Greek stuff almost as much as the Turks did that we are lucky is survives at all but still, it is nothing compared to other examples of large and important holy sites like the Pantheon.
Ch22 Q1: Influencing Elections.OK, now that I have, with the help of you my dear readers, obtained an elementary working knowledge of the nomination mechanics, I do have a supplementary question, as highlighted by the Chancellor. But I'm not game to play with it yet, as Rurik is not yet ready to abandon Helgi, even though his decision rests on a knife's edge. Should Rurik break and support one of his other sons instead, is there any interaction that allows him to directly seek to change another elector's vote (requests, calling in favours, threats etc)? Or is it just a passive process in that he must hope his change might influence others? My suspicion is the bulk of electors (his vassals) are in fact of Slavic religious persuasion so - despite their almost universal mild dislike for Helgi, most are likely to stick with him anyway. Especially if Rurik can't actively intervene to 'persuade' them.
There's no way to straight-up ask someone to vote for a particular candidate, but electors who like you will tend to follow your lead on voting if there aren't too many other factors pulling them in a different direction.
Other factors that seem to affect the vote, from my general observations of elective forms of inheritance(1):
Electors will tend to vote for candidates they themselves like.
Adult candidates are generally favored over children.
Men are typically favored over women (when eligible)
Claimants and those who would inherit claims (including but not limited to children of the current ruler) are typically favored over non-claimants. (This seems to be more in play with Feudal Elective than with Tanistry; I'm not sure how big a factor is in Elective Gavelkind, since cadet branches there tend to split off into realms of their own.)
Electors typically (though not exclusively) favor candidates that share their religion and culture. (Not fully sure if this is a factor in and of itself, or if it just reflects the default opinion penalties for cross-cultural / cross-religious relationships.)
Ambitious vassals will often vote for themselves (if eligible; usually not something you have to worry about with Tanistry or Elective Gavelkind, since by default all candidates come from the ruler's dynasty) or for "puppets" they stand a chance of pulling the strings for.
The electorate as a whole tends to coalesce into one or more clear "voting blocs"; either nearly everyone lines up behind a clear favorite, or two or three (sometimes four) clear favorites tend to jockey for the lead (with occasional stubborn holdouts voting for themselves, or for somebody they simply really like but isn't that attractive an option for anyone else bringing up the rear). I think this might reflect that candidates who already have declared backers may get a slight amount of "pull" to make them stand out, but it's hard to conclusively prove.
(1) Small caveat: I'm less familiar with elective gavelkind specifically than I am with feudal elective and tanistry, but all of them share a few of the same guiding principles.
Ch22 Q2: Betrothals.I haven’t got around to arranging any of these for the King’s younger children yet – deliberately so. Not sure yet which places I may want to have as allies and which I may need to attack, and the children are still mainly very young. But I will have to get to it at some point. I’m reasonably familiar with the ideas, advantages etc for making these arrangements from reading AARs, but they are mainly set in France and England, a few hundred years later and with different legal setups, geographical circumstances and religious considerations. Any initial general or specific advice for Rurik at this stage would be welcome. He will be considering it while he is off on his latest raiding adventure.
I'm going to leave specific situational advice to others, but in general there are four main ways to play the marriage game, each of which has its advantages in particular situations:
Marry for Stats: Half of your wife's Attribute scores are added to your ruler's personal Attribute scores and the score of the relevant Councilor to calculate the realm Attribute scores. (The exception is if -- as in Rurik's case incidentally -- the ruler's wife is also a Councilor, in which case you only get the benefit of that Attribute from her as a Councilor.)
Marry for Traits: Certain congenital traits (Strong, Attractive, Quick / Genius) have a chance of being passed to a character's children or grandchildren. Some players will set up elaborate eugenics programs to ensure that these traits "breed true" in their line across generations. Conversely, there are also negative congenital traits (Weak, Ugly, Slow / Imbecile, plus a few others like Hunchback and Inbred that don't have "positive" counterparts) that are typically best avoided (unless you want to breed a line of twisted, misshapen idiots for your own perverse amusement... yes, there are players that do that, too).
Marry for Alliances: Marrying your own close kin to the close kin of another ruler automatically gives you a Non-Aggression Pact, which can be useful if you want that little bit of extra breathing room to focus your efforts elsewhere. NAPs can be further upgraded to Alliances, which... well, need I say more?
Marry for Claims: A ruler's children (and other eligible heirs in the line of succession) will inherit claims on their titles, which may be pressed just like anyone else's claims, and these claims can be further passed along to their own children in many circumstances. The AI is, however, programmed to be savvy to this, so it may sometimes take a little (*ahem*) "engineering" to ensure that your heir's claims can be pressed...
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Gumarich recorded that all were amazed at the sight of this magnificent wonder of the ancient world. He wrote that he was very glad that it would be seen but not sacked on this expedition:
“I hope this great symbol of human advancement will stand unblemished for another 1,300 years as it has done so far. Surely no-one would be so short-sighted or lacking in culture and sense of history to ever use it for military purposes, compass its destruction nor put it in danger of such.”
It is well for him that Gumarich could not see that far into the future.
It is unfortunate that of all the great temples of the classical era that survive, this one got blown up the most. And it's in Greece, in the middle of a city, at its highest point. So pollution and neglect have done quite a number on the ruins that have survived venetian bombardment and Ottoman control. There is a restoration project but it's been forty years and jack has been done really. I suppose since the Byzantines liked tearing down old Greek stuff almost as much as the Turks did that we are lucky is survives at all but still, it is nothing compared to other examples of large and important holy sites like the Pantheon.
There is nothing I can add to Specialist's answers except to note that your choice of spouse for your children will be limited to potentials within your religius group.
