Blue Sky, White Sun, And A Wholly Red Fort: Asia's Liberation Wars [EoD/Customized]

[zanaikin]

Sorry I'm in a pre-release crunch time at my work so... been too busy of late. I haven't forgotten about this, just need to have time again.

 

[Kienzle]

Take your time. I'm really excited for this to return though, it's by far the best China AAR I've read.

 

[manik]

Just read the this timeline, i agree this is the best Chinese & indian timeline i ever read.

 

[zanaikin]

A status update:

I'm back to working on this, although still don't have as much time as I used to... at least not yet.

Been trying to debug my way through the complicated End-of-Raj event chain. Took a while to figure out the the provinceIDs I needed were in /map/map_1 instead of /config. DH has way too many duplicate files.
My savefile for event testing has been corrupted twice already so... there's a lot of bumps that takes time to even out.

Apart from the top leaders, I also have no idea what ministers to give the Indians in this universe (if you have any recommendations, please give =P). May let the game handle it but... the personalities DH gives to what Indian leaders I do know shows a profound ignorance of Indian politics. To give you an idea of how the game did not anticipate this scenario at all...
Subhas Chandra Bose isn't even a head-of-government option for India.
Really? Not even if Japan won? <_<

 

[Kienzle]

Honestly, I've just been anticipating the next update for so long that I'll take whatever you can put together as long as it moves the story forward. I'm really most curious to see what your decision is for partitioning India into Muslim/Hindu countries or whether the sub-continent will be united.

 

[zanaikin]

Chapter 30 - The New Order in Asia

"An individual should not have too much freedom. A nation should have absolute freedom."
- Sun Yat-Sen
​

September 16, 1940:

Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek -- Premier of the Republic of China, Director-General of the Kuomintang, and Chairman of the ROC National Military Council -- led the cadre of top Chinese generals as they ascended the stairs to the gatehouse of the Red Fort of Delhi. On top stood the leaders of the Hindustani independence movements: 'Netaji' Subhas Chandra Bose, 'Mahatma' Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Indian National Congress leader Jawaharlal Nehru, and All-India Muslim League leader Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

(left to right: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Subhas Chandra Bose, Jawaharlal Nehru, Muhammad Ali Jinnah)​

In a sign of symbolic recognition, Subhas requested that Gandhi-ji (Father Gandhi), whom he would always uphold as Father of the (Indian) Nation, to stand at the forefront of the Indian leadership. He would be the one to receive Chiang Kai-shek's honorary salute, and be the first head-of-state of Free India to shake hands with the Chinese leader.

"The last of the British Imperialists on the continent have surrendered," Chiang declared. "As I have promised Bose, Chinese forces on the Indian continent have began an immediate withdraw back to our own borders. Only twenty divisions will stay behind, to guard the Indian coastline until new formations of Indian troops could be trained to take over such duties."

"Though we regret that violence had to be used, we are thankful that India is free once more," Gandhi nodded in return. "It now falls upon us, to see that our two great nations may coexist once more in benevolence and harmony, just as we have for thousands years of history."

Chiang did not miss the subtle warnings in Gandhi's tone: that Indians would never accept the trading of one master for another. China and India would either stand together as partners, or not at all.


...

Hours later, Chiang sat down with the Indian leaders in the Secretariat Building of New Delhi. To better project the image of equals, he had swapped out his military uniform for his everyday, plainclothes attire.

"To be perfectly honest," Chiang explained, "China is not in a position to help India much. We are still embroiled in our own modernization. Between industrialization, socioeconomic reforms, and waging war against the imperial powers, our resources are already stretched to the limits. Even as I speak, my son Ching-kuo is busy enacting large-scale monetary and budgetary reforms that China desperately need. We do not have the capacity to interfere with the future of India even if we wanted to.

"The two things I have promised Bose is that China will provide troops for India's coastal defense in the first few years, as well as specialist trainers and technological transfers to help India jumpstart its own industry and military. But other than that, China can only offer political and morale support for Bose and India. The challenges facing India are unique and many, and China has neither the intentions nor the resources to step in."

It was Chiang's awkward way of declaring that China has no plans to become the overlord of India, either benevolently or tyrannically. However, one fact was apparent to everyone at the table: despite all the polite posturing for appearances' sake, it was Bose, not Gandhi or the Indian National Congress, whom China recognizes and supports as the legitimate leadership of India.

This fait accompli had to be recognized. Bose -- through his partnership with the Chinese nationalists -- had risen to become the liberator of India while completely bypassing the internal politics of the INC. The INC had only two choices: (re)elect Bose as their new leader, or be delegated to secondary status as political influence is redirected into the hands of the INC left-wing: the All-India Forward Bloc set up by Bose in 1939.

Gandhi had already called for a special legislative assembly of the Indian National Congress. Delegates are gathering now in New Delhi even as they speak. Both Gandhi and Nehru fully expects Bose to be named its new leader in the coming days, and the honorific 'Netaji' (Respected Leader) to be recognized by all Indians.

But in the meantime, they also had one other important matter to decide:

In what form will Free India take shape?

In his negotiations with Chiang, Bose has agreed to hand back the territories the British claimed from the Chinese during their century of turmoil -- both Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh.

• Aksai Chin was claimed by the Johnson Line, drawn by the opportunistic British in 1865 during the Dzungar Rebellion when the Qing dynasty had temporarily lost control of Xinjiang.
  
  
• Arunachal Pradesh was sliced off by the McMahon Line (1914), negotiated between the British and the government of Tibet (declared in the chaos of the Xinhai Revolution) which the Republic of China has never recognized.

For China, reclaiming territorial integrity had become the cornerstone of government legitimacy, and Chiang Kai-shek would not budge one centimeter when it comes to Chinese sovereign rights. Bose, recognizing that this contentious piece of mostly uninhabited land may spell doom for Sino-Indian relations in the future, decided to settle the matter once and for all. As Chinese forces bore the cost of overthrowing the British, it was justified that China retake their lands.

(Note: unfortunately I don't have any good maps of Chinese claims from before the PRC victory. This'll have to do.)​

Burma, as agreed with General Aung San, would also be granted independence. The Republic of China will reassert their historic claim over northern Kachin and Sagaing, where various small ethic tribes (minority to both China and Burma) live. Meanwhile, Thailand will retake control of the territories they lost to the British over the previous century -- the Shan states (Taunggyi, Kengtung) lost in 1893, as well as the Tavoy coastline which British forces seized in 1869.

That leaves on issue: PAKSTAN

The Pakistan Declaration, made on Jan 28, 1933, declared that the five northern states of the Hindustan region that dominated by Muslims should become a independent, sovereign state separate from that of proposed Indian Federation. These five states are: Punjab, Northwestern (Afghan), Kashmir, Sindh and Baluchistan, collectively known as PAKSTAN.

However, neither Bose, nor Gandhi, nor Nehru wanted to see India partitioned between Hindu and Muslim states. In fact, all three individuals expressed strong opposition towards the proposal.

As a Hindu who grew up in Bengal, a Muslim-majority state, Subhas Chandra Bose understood the differing views of both the Hindus and the Muslims. He has always stressed the importance of an Indian national identity over the differing religions, a view which he embraced in the creation of the Indian National Army. As a political leader, Bose had the trust of both the Hindus of the Indian National Congress and the Muslims of the All-India Muslim League. With all this considered, a partition of India along religious lines was the very last thing he wanted to see.

Bose also had Gandhi's full support in this matter. The spiritual father of the Indian Independence Movement has always envisioned that a unified, strong India would climb out from the tyranny of British dominion. Nehru, as Gandhi's protege and 'successor', also upheld this vision of the future.

Meanwhile, Jinnah -- currently the leader of the All-India Muslim League -- used to be a member of the Indian National Congress. He resigned from the INC in 1920 over his staunch opposition to Satyagraha, believing that Gandhi's campaign of non-violent civil disobedience would cause India to descend into political anarchy. He did not embrace the Pakistan Movement until 1940, when he publicly advocated the two-state solution to Indian Independence during the Muslim League conference in Lahore.

(Lahore Resolution Working Committee: Jinnah stands in the center.)​

But the All-India Muslim League's political control of the Pakistan region was by no means settled in 1940. The INC still held majority support in the North-West (Afghan) Province, and challenged AIML influence in Punjab and Kashmir. This left the idea of a separate Pakstan more hope than reality. Furthermore, the INC still upheld the mantle of a secular movement - its body representative of all faiths in India.

(Note: it was the British support for the AIML during WW2 that truly propelled them into political power in India. Bengal/East Pakistan and NW/Afgan would not switch to AIML majority until 1943, after the British crackdown against INC had entered full force.)

Nevertheless, Bose knew that Jinnah's popularity and influence among the Muslims cannot be underestimated. Any one-state solution must have the support of Jinnah and his followers. Otherwise the newly freed India would risk being ripped apart by religious turmoil from the inside. Considering the magnitude of reforms that Bose already had in mind for post-independence India, the last thing he wanted was 'religious strife' thrown on top of everything else.

"I should remind you," Bose told Jinnah, "that when the All-India Muslim League began, their goal had been to increase the representation of Muslims in India. They wanted to see more Muslim presence in leadership, in the INC legislature, where they may protect the rights of Muslims in minority provinces. You can still achieve this if you work with us! But if you declare independence now, all that would result is a weakened India, a weakend Pakistan, and even less protection for the rest of the Muslim minority in India. You would be playing straight into the hands of those Hindu Nationalists!"

"Is that truly what you want?"

Jinnah sighed. He knew the All-India Muslim League had its limitations. To date, they still could not secure a clear majority in several Muslim-dominated provinces. If they were to leave India, it would leave those Muslims in a precarious state, their voices drowned out by an overwhelming Hindu majority who would seek to equate India with Hinduism.

At the same time, Jinnah held no doubts that Bose was serious when it comes to working with the Muslims. Bose left his home in Calcutta pretending to be a Muslim. He learned to pray five times a day like a Muslim. His closest traveling companion (Abid Hasan) was a Muslim. His top military commander (Shah Nawaz Khan) was a Muslim. He even chose Subh Sukh Chain -- a Hindi-Urdu translation of Jana Gana Mana -- to become the National Anthem of Free India.

"But we need room to be ourselves," Jinnah sighed. "The Hindus will never accept the use of Islamic Sharia in civil law."

"And you will have room."

Thus, Bose presented Jinnah with a compromise:

Pakstan autonomy, not sovereignty.

The states comprising Pakstan would reorganize themselves in this post-colonial political vacuum. They would be given a period to set up their own local government structures, with no interference from Delhi. They will then join as member states of the Indian Federation, and will hold a greater degree of autonomy than all the other states. They will retain a wide berth of control over their local civil laws and administrative structures. However, they will follow the comprehensive fiscal, economic, foreign, and defense policies laid down by Delhi.

There would still be countless details to hash out. But in a show of solidarity and progress, Jinnah agreed to the proposal.

(The state of South Asia after the decolonization of the British Raj. Burma has shrunken considerably, having transferred three provinces to Thailand and one to China. India released two regions to China but retains control of both Bengal/Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. As normal for Paradox games, I'm listing Pakistan as a 'puppet' under India to represent its high state of autonomy.)​

( Next Chapter - The 59th Indian National Congress )​

Notes:

1. While the China-Burma claim dispute is very low profile compared to the China-India one, it is an issue that plague Burma/Myanmar to this day. The KIA (Kachin Independence Army) continues to hold out near the fringes. The People's Republic of China officially recognizes KIA territory as Burmese, but the Republic of China still disputes it and, for over a decade after the Chinese Civil War, did fight over it (the Kuomintang 8th Army retreated into northern Burma and, with CIA support, continued the Chinese Civil War from Burma, severely damaging Burmese civil order & national unity in the process).

2. I've never encountered any scholarly mentions on Bose's attitude towards the China-India territorial dispute, but I have encountered many Indian quora answers that believe Bose would not be as naive as Nehru when it comes to China's attitude towards territorial sovereignty; that had Bose been in charge, India could have maintained its friendship with China.

3. In our history, it was Sardar Patel who agreed to the Partition of India, during a time when Nehru and Gandhi were still both in jail. Historians record that both Nehru and Gandhi tried to negotiate with Jinnah on preventing the Partition of India; however both of them eventually saw it as a political inevitability and thus did not try too hard to resist it.

4. Many leading Pakistani scholars notes that Jinnah never wanted Pakistani Independence. Instead, he used it as a bargaining chip when negotiating with the INC, only to see the idea take off with a life of its own. The Partition left the Muslims, in Jinnah's own words, with a "mutilated moth-eaten" Pakistan.

 

[J_Master]

Final showdown with the USSR when?

And why exactly is Kashmir split? To my knowledge, the current split is because of a war following the decision of the prince to remain independent. In the current peaceful division of India, with the goal of Pakistan fully entering India in the future, it doesn't make any sense,

 

[uzikpl]

I have one question, it have always intrested me why Bhutan and Nepal are independent from India, both OTL and TTL, could you elaborate on that?

 

[zanaikin]

Final showdown with the USSR when?

And why exactly is Kashmir split? To my knowledge, the current split is because of a war following the decision of the prince to remain independent. In the current peaceful division of India, with the goal of Pakistan fully entering India in the future, it doesn't make any sense,

Does the year say 1941 yet? Sheesh, so impatient!

Trouble regarding the Kashmir issue:

(1) Yes I know that the Princely State of Jammu & Kashmir is a Muslim-majority state with a Hindu ruler. However, Muslim does not equal AIML support, and I could not find any sources saying that Kashmir was more pro-AIML than pro-INC. Especially not in 1940. (If you have sources on this matter, feel free to post~)

(2) By my (brief) reading of the Kashmir conflict, it seems that Jammu also has a significant Hindu population, so simply handing the whole region to the AIML seems... a gross oversimplification of the cultural diversity in the region.

So... I just didn't do anything and let the game draw its own maps.

I have one question, it have always intrested me why Bhutan and Nepal are independent from India, both OTL and TTL, could you elaborate on that?

The simple answer: Nepal and Bhutan are Himalayan kingdoms, culturally closer to Tibet than India. Both of them were independent kingdoms prior to their subjugation by the British East India company / British India, but because they were hard to control (especially Nepal who fought ferociously) it was easily to politically manipulate them rather than directly rule them.

 

[GulMacet]

This is a very touchy topic, I don't know how far we are allowed to talk about it by the forum rules, but here goes:

The IRL Partition/Decolonization of India happened under the following conditions:

• Peacetime
• Period of preparation (although, admittedly, Moron Mountbatten accelerating the timetable did not help)
• Done by a government with 100 years of experience in administrating India

It still led to ethno-religious riots, massacres, over a million dead, several millions missing, tens of millions of refugees, general panic and complete collapse of government/civilization in some areas.
This Decolonization of India happens under the conditions of:

• Wartime
• No preparation whatsoever
• Done by a government that didn't exist a week ago

I know this Jinnah, Bose and Gandhi are against religious fanatics and want India to exist in peace and harmony. I also strongly believe the vast majority of the Indian population in 1940 disagrees with them. No amount of goodwill can cancel out hundreds of years of tribal, ethnic and religious hatred in a day. I expect this and this, except all over India. There will be the following types of rebels:

• Hindus in areas with Muslim minorities, seeking ethnic cleansing
• Muslims in areas with Hindu minorities, seeking ethnic cleansing
• Hindu Nationalists, wanting a purely Hindu India
• Muslim Nationalists, wanting an (or several regional) independent and pure Muslim state(s)

The US is the foremost military power of our age, and - as expected - they had no problem conquering Afghanistan, but they are failing at building a stable Afghan state for seventeen years now, despite having the support of local groups and throwing increasingly ludicrous amounts of money and troops at the problem. India is larger, more ethnically and more religiously diverse than Afghanistan - and China is not the foremost military power of this age. At best, I expect India to be China's Vietnam - an unwinnable mess they pull out of after several years, ironically galvanizing it into a proper nation by being 'the enemy'. At worst, India will be China's Afghanistan, with all the devastation and mass murder that entails. And to make matters worse, the more China tries to help, the more religious fanatics of all stripes can point fingers and say: "See, the INC is bowing to the Chinese, just like the Princes who sold us out to the British! How are they any different?". Under realistic conditions, I don't see a happy ending here.

On the other hand, Darkest Hour does not model any of that, so everything will be fine.

 

[zanaikin]

You forgot the militant Sikhs =P (we'll skip Jains since they never cause any trouble, and the Parsis are too low in numbers).

Yeah I'm actually not sure how deeply I'll get into the topic. After all, Hearts of Iron series isn't a "social problems simulator", it's a "military problems simulator", and India's religious issues are so complex the only equivalent of it I can think of is the Reformation.

GulMacet you're much more academic of a scholar than I am, so feel free to list the individual issues that this AAR should at least bring up and I'll see how I envision this timeline would solve them. Some of them I plan to tackle in future chapters, some... beyond my understanding. Notice that through all my writing of China I never tackled the BIG problem that gave the Communist Party all their ammunition: Land Reform.

(also, a lot of the cleansing that happened in India were a series of atrocity - counter-atrocity - spiraling out of control. The Jammu incident you linked was definitely a case of this.)

The few things I can say are:

1. Chiang is pulling his leg out as soon as possible and letting Bose deal with it. I've repeated in previous chapters that he doesn't really have an interest in non-Chinese parts of Asia other than "kick imperialists out". Now can Bose deal with it effectively? I've read some very clashing views, and I plan to try to find a middle path. Like any heroic leader, the man has his strengths and faults.

2. Princely States will be annexed by military force, if they haven't surrendered already (Hyderabad is already taken remember?). In this world, the Princely States will NOT get a choice.

3. The way I see it: the Partition of India, with its dislocation of millions and forcing independent territories to decide allegiances, made an existing ethic-religious conflict much, MUCH worse. Furthermore, the lack of an Indian military at the time plus an unwillingness by British to restore order meant it was total anarchy. A lot of issues could have been kept restrained by timely decision-making. Instead, they were excerbated by a total administrative paralysis.

 

[uzikpl]

And, (althought I now that this is somewhat divisive topic) wasn't British Raj more intrested in exploitation of India rather than ruling it? I mean, East India Company used (some would say destroyed) Bengali agriculture just to sell opium in China, and there is an argument that it was endorsed (or at least turn a blind eye) by British Empire, part of the chaos during Partition of India came from British Raj mismanagement, which could be intentional. I can see that Liberation of India and it's later management by Bose wouldn't be such as chaotic.
That being said, TTL India still have few problems, which mixed together could quickly spiral out of control:
1) Bengal, event without Pakistani "mismanagement" it is still very populated teritory with narcostate economy, which, if not dealt with quickly, will bring famine, which will bring necesity for India government to combat it with finacial expenses and similar "very helpfull" sacrifices for young state.
2) Rajas of India, I now that during British rule most of they power were reduced, but they still bring with themselves some legitimacy and support, if only minimal, and Bose India being republican and somewhat revolutionary state, would have to do something with them.
3) In TTL there was a war on teritory of British Raj, beetwen Chinese and Raj troops, and since British India used in it's military, you now, Indians, that could bring resentment among population against "Chinese Empire" regardless ROC government intentions.
4) Collaborators, Europeans and administration of British Raj, you cannot rule without bureaucracy and new India will find itself with administration with bunch of Europeans (who will go out) and Indians (which loyalties you have to inspect, or just replace them), that means that administration will be, for a time, very provisional which will be very vulnerable considering amount of problem plus, you now...
5) World War II, because (re)creating state during one of the biggest war in history of humanity would be definitly easy job.

I understand that Jiang might not be intrested in keeping India under China heel, but if Bose and INC cannot keep new state togheter He might not really have a choice, if only because of military necessities.

 

[Rifal]

Well then, now that indian issues can be handled by indians, it is time of Chiang to turn North (and west-ish) and face down the big red monster. A simultaneous German and Chinese attack should be able to put the soviets down. What is the military situation on the Chinese-Soviet border? Looking forward to that infantry slog through Siberia?

 

[GeneralUrist]

I can imagine a nasty cold war (or entire 3rd world war) happening between China and Germany after all this is done.

I imagine that after a few years of peace Chiang will decide he doesn't admire the German system of government. IIRC a while back it was noted that Chiang takes great pride (and China's strength relies on) fairly integrating subject peoples of China into the administration and army, even if those people aren't very 'chinese' themselves. That, or giving them full independence I.E. India. By contrast, Germany's arrangement is basically "Everything for the Germans, non-germans in the empire get screwed and/or plundered (or even worse things we can't talk about here)". It won't take long before Germany looks like a colonial power in the same (or worse) way than Britain.

 

[Rifal]

A German-Chinese victory would make for an interesting world. Post Axis victory Germany is open to quite some speculation. Hopefully Hitler kicks the bucket and a more Moderate leader emerges. Rolling back some of the NSDAPs harsh policies and lightening the German jackboot on the neck of Europe or some absolute cretin like Himmler ends up in charge and we go full "thunder in the sky" with a Wehrmacht-SS civil war tearing Germany apart.

All this is in the future however, first the big red monster must be slain.

 

[J_Master]

I could actually see a somewhat bright future for China. The US isn't going to fall to a invasion, so they remain. Germany can do whatever, and China will slowly liberalize. I could see Chinese-American reconciliation and the German order in Europe won't hold. It's pretty much a USSR waiting to collapse

 

[zanaikin]

During my absence, I saw one video posted about China that helps explain a lot about both Chinese views and modern geopolitics. As I do have some reader(s) from the ROC here (@Kienzle), I thought you might enjoy it:

I plan to write another special post at some point to explain why Chinese views toward culture is so different from the west. China does not adhere to the western notion of a "nation-state". Instead, China adheres to the "civilization-state" theory (created by Sinologist Martin Jacques).



@uzikpl

Yes, the British were more interested in extracting resources from India than ruling it properly. Unfortunately, just because the British left doesn't mean all the damage done will immediately revert.

As you've noted, under British rule, much of Indian agriculture has been transformed into growing opium, cotton, and other 'cash crops' rather than food, which left India with a very fragile food economy that will collapse under any natural disaster (as it did historically during WW2 - 1943 Bengal Famine). Administrative structure is certainly another issue; no government over such a massive country can be built overnight...

I don't believe that combat between Chinese forces and British-India Sepoys means resentment is inevitable. Yes, you'll have soldiers who gain a grudge because Chinese troops killed their friends. But on both the civilian and the leadership level, the majority of Indians already saw Britain as an occupational force by 1940. To give a comparative example: the Soviet invasion of Manchuria (1945) killed/captured over 200,000 Manchukuo & Mongol troops + toppled a collaborationist regime (Puyi had real legitimacy too because he was the last Emperor of China). But because of antagonist local attitudes towards the Japanese, the Soviets were hailed as liberators -- at least, once they started withdrawing.

Bose is not a Republican. We'll get to this next chapter.


@Rifal

ROC attention will be turning north. I do look forward to this myself because giving Germany a major ally in Operation Barbarossa will help me expose a few topics that's almost never talked about:

> How the Hitler vs Halder dispute screwed Barbarossa up before it even began... because Halder deliberately positioned German units' launching positions in defiance of Hitler's strategic objectives.

However, as India is one of the major pivots in this alternate history, a lot of attention will remain on its internal politics. I won't be surprised if more chapters will be written from Bose's perspective than Chiang's until Barbarossa begins.


@GeneralUrist

There's one thing I'd like to keep reiterating, just so people don't get the wrong idea:

Chiang Kai-shek is NOT a moral man

Because I'm not allowed to discuss many of his dark sides due to forum rules, it might feel like I'm presenting Chiang as a good person. But Chiang is not. He's NOT doing this because he believes in freedom, or self-determination, or the promotion of racial equality. He is NOT a virtuous humanist like Gandhi. He is NOT a champion of the Democracy like F.D.R. He does NOT care about the well-being of non-Asian states. He has no problem wiping out human lives by the thousands or doing something he admits is despicable (i.e. selling opium) to fund the KMT war machine. In the end, all Chiang really cares about is two things:
(1) Chinese Nationalism/revival
(2) Pan-Asian Anti-Imperialism

So I would rephrase the question - How long will it take, before the Reichscommissariats no longer provide enough Lebensraum for the German people, that Germany must start looking at Asia?

That I can't answer now. I don't even know what the world would look like at the end of the war yet.

Remember that one of the key reasons for British Imperialism is because the British Isles supplied neither enough raw materials, nor enough market customers, for its industrial input/output. Thus, to keep their textile factories powered, they need Indian cotton. To keep sales up and money flowing, they needed the Chinese market. Etc.

As Lenin puts it:

"If it were necessary to give the briefest possible definition of imperialism,
we should have to say that imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism."​

 

[HIMDogson]

Well, the Nazi state apparatus didn't really have a civilian industry. Even their big companies used slave labor from POWs or *redacted*. So it isn't unreasonable to think that eventually the Nazis would have been forced to seek more conquests or collapse economically, and I can easily see China or a country in China's sphere being next on that list.

 

[Duke of Awesome]

I feel like the Nazis would be very weary of attacking China, given that the only land border between them is underdeveloped Siberian wastes. I can't imagine the Nazi state would ever last long, even if they had succeeded, as their economy was going to collapse.

 

[Rifal]

Nazi Germany cant last, only question is how much of a bloodbath its going to be as it goes down.
But as stated, that is far off, for now we must focus on the Reds.