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King of Men

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1778. Europe is aflame with war. The nations of the west are attempting to keep the colossus of the East, a resurgent Roman Empire, out of their homes. The fight appears hopeless; yet still young men are sent out to die by the thousands in futile battles.

Copenhagen. The final refuge of the once-mighty nation of Denmark. A vast army gathers for the assault outside the battered walls; the thunder of two hundred cannons is unceasing. Thirty Roman men of war patrol the approaches; no relieving army is in sight.

As the sound of fifty thousand men charging the breaches climbs to the sky, the King of Denmark holds council with his advisors. All are agreed that peace must be sought; the only question is what terms to ask for. The treasury is nigh empty; only a few worthless colonies remain to appease the endless appetite of Rome.

At last the King cuts through the debate. If no peace will preserve the integrity of the kingdom, then at least let the world remember the example of Denmark. An envoy is despatched to the Roman general : It demands peace, and an indemnity of 75 ducats. The Roman laughs - and then chokes. For a moment he stares incredulously at the Dane, whose capital is even now being sacked by Roman troops. Then, very slowly, he reaches for his pen and, grinding his teeth, signs. Denmark is safe for another five years.

Whew, a mini-AAR! Now, perhaps you are asking yourself, why does the general have orders to accept whatever peace was offered? Very simple : I had three diplomats, four wars, war exhaustion up to here - and France was due to declare war on me in six days. I had to accept one offered peace treaty, and I wasn't in a position to receive a good one anywhere else. So I gathered every available army and flung it at Denmark, figuring they would offer me their annoying little colonies when I had occupied their last province. And they did offer me peace - the day before my assault took Copenhagen! This being so, the peace offer was based on the two battles I had won, and they demanded 75 ducats. Well, what could I do? I had to have that peace!

I have done some complaining about the AI in the past, but I admit this is a masterstroke. To offer peace based on a situation that won't exist tomorrow, to an enemy who has to have some sort of peace - if a human did it, we'd call it genius. Apparently the spirit of Ebbesen has crept into my computer and defends his homeland against my encroachments! :D Oi, PE, stop sabotaging your WC students!:p
 

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Originally posted by King of Men
1778. Europe is aflame with war. The nations of the west are attempting to keep the colossus of the East, a resurgent Roman Empire, out of their homes. The fight appears hopeless; yet still young men are sent out to die by the thousands in futile battles.

Copenhagen. The final refuge of the once-mighty nation of Denmark. A vast army gathers for the assault outside the battered walls; the thunder of two hundred cannons is unceasing. Thirty Roman men of war patrol the approaches; no relieving army is in sight.

As the sound of fifty thousand men charging the breaches climbs to the sky, the King of Denmark holds council with his advisors. All are agreed that peace must be sought; the only question is what terms to ask for. The treasury is nigh empty; only a few worthless colonies remain to appease the endless appetite of Rome.

At last the King cuts through the debate. If no peace will preserve the integrity of the kingdom, then at least let the world remember the example of Denmark. An envoy is despatched to the Roman general : It demands peace, and an indemnity of 75 ducats. The Roman laughs - and then chokes. For a moment he stares incredulously at the Dane, whose capital is even now being sacked by Roman troops. Then, very slowly, he reaches for his pen and, grinding his teeth, signs. Denmark is safe for another five years.

Whew, a mini-AAR! Now, perhaps you are asking yourself, why does the general have orders to accept whatever peace was offered? Very simple : I had three diplomats, four wars, war exhaustion up to here - and France was due to declare war on me in six days. I had to accept one offered peace treaty, and I wasn't in a position to receive a good one anywhere else. So I gathered every available army and flung it at Denmark, figuring they would offer me their annoying little colonies when I had occupied their last province. And they did offer me peace - the day before my assault took Copenhagen! This being so, the peace offer was based on the two battles I had won, and they demanded 75 ducats. Well, what could I do? I had to have that peace!

I have done some complaining about the AI in the past, but I admit this is a masterstroke. To offer peace based on a situation that won't exist tomorrow, to an enemy who has to have some sort of peace - if a human did it, we'd call it genius. Apparently the spirit of Ebbesen has crept into my computer and defends his homeland against my encroachments! :D Oi, PE, stop sabotaging your WC students!:p

actually this is basically the AI being stupid and belliegerent :rolleyes:
 

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Yes, i think the AI "knows" about war exhaustion and how it cripples large empires, and will use this as a fulcrum to leverage you out of power. The AI will declare wars on you in such a way that just as you are settling one war, another starts, so you never achieve peace to reset your WE.
 

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Originally posted by Robespierre
Yes, i think the AI "knows" about war exhaustion and how it cripples large empires, and will use this as a fulcrum to leverage you out of power. The AI will declare wars on you in such a way that just as you are settling one war, another starts, so you never achieve peace to reset your WE.

but the AI is always bothering for money until I start capturing provinces

and I haven't ever seen the AI take advantage of WE
 

Grothgar

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I have seen the AI take advantage of WE, i was the one it was taking advantage of. I was france and i owned all the dutch provinces and all of savoy and was just starting my colonial empire when brandenburg declared war on me. Brandenburg had all its core provinces and a somewhat advantageous DP setting which meant WE never wwent above +6 in its core provinces, mine was +8 in my core provinces and up to +14 in my non core.

After many years of war with WE running at a maximum in my core provinces and with me dealing with revolts everywhere, about 4 per month, mostly in the colonies i annexed one of brandenburgs allies which gave me a land route. Cue the fall of most of brandenburg, up to about 68% War score, but still they wouldnt accept even a white peace with me, and all the provinces i conquered were revolting to a huge degree.

Eventually i had to pay them 900 ducats to make them sign peace, that was the strongest challenge the AI has ever given me.
 

Owen

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Originally posted by Grothgar
I have seen the AI take advantage of WE, i was the one it was taking advantage of. I was france and i owned all the dutch provinces and all of savoy and was just starting my colonial empire when brandenburg declared war on me. Brandenburg had all its core provinces and a somewhat advantageous DP setting which meant WE never wwent above +6 in its core provinces, mine was +8 in my core provinces and up to +14 in my non core.

After many years of war with WE running at a maximum in my core provinces and with me dealing with revolts everywhere, about 4 per month, mostly in the colonies i annexed one of brandenburgs allies which gave me a land route. Cue the fall of most of brandenburg, up to about 68% War score, but still they wouldnt accept even a white peace with me, and all the provinces i conquered were revolting to a huge degree.

Eventually i had to pay them 900 ducats to make them sign peace, that was the strongest challenge the AI has ever given me.

I'll tell you the problem here. Open up the save file. Assuming you are using the standard install, Brandenburg's AI file is prussia.ai. Open up the file prussia.ai in the ai directory, and you will see the line "ferocity=yes," a line that is absent in most of the other .ai files. When absent it defaults to "ferocity=no." Setting ferocity=yes makes the ai only make peace when one of you has a devastating war percentage. As you couldn't even get to Brandenburg, they stayed at war with you for a long time. 900d is about a -40% war score as compared to +68%, but I'm not that surprised.

The prussia.ai file as really designed for Brandenburg/Prussia in the Napoleonic scenarios, I think, and it gnerates some strange results in the grand campaign because of that.

I don't think the ai was deliberately taking advantage of your WE, though I could be wrong.
 

Grothgar

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Nope i checked, im using MKJ's AI so nobody has the ferocity click on yes, so it was deliberately not making peace with me because of WE, in other scens, when i havent had a big empire brandenburg is the first to offer me a peace treaty :)
 

Owen

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Originally posted by Grothgar
Nope i checked, im using MKJ's AI so nobody has the ferocity click on yes, so it was deliberately not making peace with me because of WE, in other scens, when i havent had a big empire brandenburg is the first to offer me a peace treaty :)

Strange. Maybe we have different versions of MKJ's ai. His Prussia.ai that I downloaded two weeks ago has ferocity=yes.

Was the Brandenburg in this scenario any larger than usual? I'm not sure whether you mean 1419 core provinces or later, as I'd heard that Brandenburg's cores change, but don't get changed through events enough.

Ah well, perhaps you're right about the AI and war exhaustion.
 

HisMajestyBOB

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The Latest MKJ's AI canned all Ferocity values. Verocity also only exists in the Antifrench.ai file for the napolean scenario.
 

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I think it is more a case of luck.
Think of the whole infinate monkeys on typewriters thing, eventualy they will produce every book ever writen by a human.

For instance in one of my first games I noticed that the AI sent small groups of troops into an ongoing battle. I thought wow this AI is great, it co-ordinated it's battle among multiple armies.
AI is my field so I was impressed. Later study revieled that the AI just got lucky and I had Attacked one of it's collector nodes. :(
 

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Originally posted by Castellon
I think it is more a case of luck.
Think of the whole infinate monkeys on typewriters thing, eventualy they will produce every book ever writen by a human.

For instance in one of my first games I noticed that the AI sent small groups of troops into an ongoing battle. I thought wow this AI is great, it co-ordinated its battle among multiple armies.
AI is my field so I was impressed. Later study revieled that the AI just got lucky and I had Attacked one of it's collector nodes. :(

Castellon. I think some people would call this an exploit. You might think I'm joking, and I kind of am, but in one of my games I found myself subconsciously dumping a large army in the same province (one of the ones next to Hepei) during each successive war against China. It took me a while to realise that I was deliberately trying to rack up war score by attacking the collector node as an instinctive tactic. Much easier than taking a lot of medium fortresses.

I bet you would be impressed if some sort of AI testing/codewarrior-style evolution at Paradox prerelease had come up with that particular tactic itself. Admittedly it wouldn't work against the human player, but impressive nonetheless.
 

Owen

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Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB
The Latest MKJ's AI canned all Ferocity values. Verocity also only exists in the Antifrench.ai file for the napolean scenario.

OK. Cheers. It must have only just changed. I will download the new ones and look at the changes.
 

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Originally posted by Owen


Castellon. I think some people would call this an exploit. You might think I'm joking, and I kind of am, but in one of my games I found myself subconsciously dumping a large army in the same province (one of the ones next to Hepei) during each successive war against China. It took me a while to realise that I was deliberately trying to rack up war score by attacking the collector node as an instinctive tactic. Much easier than taking a lot of medium fortresses.

I bet you would be impressed if some sort of AI testing/codewarrior-style evolution at Paradox prerelease had come up with that particular tactic itself. Admittedly it wouldn't work against the human player, but impressive nonetheless.

As I said, this was in my first game and I lost that battle. :(
The armies were arriving just in time to prop up the morale of the AI. Since I did not have any armies in the area, my morale kept going down while the AI's kept getting a boost.

Yup I know of that exploit, A lot of people use it to rack up undeserved War score. :) Same as with fleet battles.
 

King of Men

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Originally posted by Castellon
I think it is more a case of luck.
Think of the whole infinite monkeys on typewriters thing, eventually they will produce every book ever written by a human.

(Or pod beings from the planet Zog...) :D
Obviously you're right, but I thought it was rather striking - June 27th, "Denmark offers us peace." June 28th, "We have captured the province of Sjælland." Since my literary part was itching a bit, I decided to write it up AAR-style - "Glimpses from the Roman Reconquest," style of thing.
 

Castellon

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Originally posted by King of Men


(Or pod beings from the planet Zog...) :D
Obviously you're right, but I thought it was rather striking - June 27th, "Denmark offers us peace." June 28th, "We have captured the province of Sjælland." Since my literary part was itching a bit, I decided to write it up AAR-style - "Glimpses from the Roman Reconquest," style of thing.

I think it is great that stuff like this happens, It keeps the game interesting.
 

Galleblære

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Had the same problem with the Knights of Rhodes, whilst playing as Novgorod. No matter what I offered, they refused peace...so dang, had to wait 5 years before automatic peace.
 

Petrarca

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Originally posted by King of Men


(Or pod beings from the planet Zog...) :D
Obviously you're right, but I thought it was rather striking - June 27th, "Denmark offers us peace." June 28th, "We have captured the province of Sjælland." Since my literary part was itching a bit, I decided to write it up AAR-style - "Glimpses from the Roman Reconquest," style of thing.
I consider this waste of an AI diplomat and abuse of the other AI nations that actually accept these peaces, but from the literary perspective I suppose fate ordained it thusly.:rolleyes: