Blood for blood - a request for an option to execute murderers

[Me_]

I'm guessing that, at the times when the game informs you who the killer is but you don't get the option to imprison them for free, you know who they are, but can't prove it to the satisfaction of the rest of the nobility. So, while you know that imprisoning them is justice, to others it seems arbitrary and capricious.

Then they should just add two levels of the murderer being known: the one where you have no definite proof and the one where you have it. And let people be executed in the second case.
And let's face it: for those cases where the murderer is a kinslayer it has to be so that everyone knows for a fact that he/she is a murderer, otherwise there wouldn't be such a heavy penalty to diplomacy.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I absolutely agree with this. I've had times when I've had several spymasters killed in a row, all by the same courtier, and everyone knew it was that courtier, because everyone hated that courtier - that's why I could esaily plot to kill that courtier to get rid of them (literally everyone in my court hated them), because I was tired of recruiting foreign intrigue geniuses to serve as my spymaster.

 

[Vox Imperatoris]

I also completely agree on all counts.

Currently, the only reason to execute people is roleplay. That's pretty silly. Regardless of what you think about the death penalty in real life, you have to recognize that, at the time, there were certain crimes that everybody would agree deserve death.

 

[CB60]

Sign me up. What can be more frustrating than having a lunatic kill your wife for no reason?

 

[User29]

signed.

 

[nyah]

The most any character should be punished for murder is by being made to pay financial reparations to the victim's family. Of course the victim's family is free to pursue a blood-feud against the perpetrator and his family, but the idea that there should be state-sanctioned judicial murder of members of the nobility just doesn't fit with the time. In fact, the financial reparation is simply a bribe to end the blood-feud. Both are included in the game already, in the form of an opinion modifier for murdering close family, and sending a gift to improve opinion. Your assassination target can even get a claim on your land if your liege decides to give him one.

-1 to the OP.

 

[unmerged(68578)]

I was thinking about this today as two of my family members were assassinated. As long as you know who did it, you should have the option to deal with them in any way you see fit. It seems silly that the Emperor would just ignore an assassination plot considering most failed plots in history ended up with the total annihilation of a whole family.

 

[nyah]

I was thinking about this today as two of my family members were assassinated. As long as you know who did it, you should have the option to deal with them in any way you see fit. It seems silly that the Emperor would just ignore an assassination plot considering most failed plots in history ended up with the total annihilation of a whole family.

And you can do that in the game already. Should we really be able to retaliate with no consequences?

 

[burny26]

+1 op

 

[FabiusBile]

And you can do that in the game already. Should we really be able to retaliate with no consequences?

Yes, of course, as happened in RL. Regicide was always punsihable by death and I clearly cannot see why any Vassal would object to the killing of a convicted murderer of a royal member of the family. If anything they should not get a negative opinion hit.

Furthermore this execution should be automatic (i.e. no choice to only imprison him) because it was automatic in medieval times. As mentioned before in most cases whole families were destroyed because of this.

 

[Haresus]

Fully agree with the OP.

 

[TobiTobsen]

I agree wth the OP!

I would also like an option to cull people who cuckold me without everybody thinking how evil I am! I mean... I'm the emperor! Wifey, you don't get pregnant from somebody else and expect the guy to live, do you?

 

[justin6477]

Yes, of course, as happened in RL. Regicide was always punsihable by death and I clearly cannot see why any Vassal would object to the killing of a convicted murderer of a royal member of the family. If anything they should not get a negative opinion hit.

Furthermore this execution should be automatic (i.e. no choice to only imprison him) because it was automatic in medieval times. As mentioned before in most cases whole families were destroyed because of this.

Well, that or banishment. Back in the Pagan days, the Germans preferred outlawry to execution even in cases where execution was totally valid. Either way, you should be able to deal with a vassal who orchestrated the murder of your kin.

 

[Tapscott]

+1. I hate knowing who the murderer is and not being able to kill them without penalities! I mean, sure their kin can hate me, but the rest of the populace shouldn't care!

 

[nyah]

Yes, of course, as happened in RL. Regicide was always punsihable by death and I clearly cannot see why any Vassal would object to the killing of a convicted murderer of a royal member of the family. If anything they should not get a negative opinion hit.

Furthermore this execution should be automatic (i.e. no choice to only imprison him) because it was automatic in medieval times. As mentioned before in most cases whole families were destroyed because of this.

I think you're applying a modern view of the rule of law to the near anarchy of justice in the medieval period.

Any punishment relies on the power of the aggrieved party to enforce his justice.

Nothing I've read supports the idea that murder was automatically punished with death. I'd be interested to know your sources.

 

[unmerged(68578)]

And you can do that in the game already. Should we really be able to retaliate with no consequences?

As it's been said, yes. This was common during the time period. However, it should only be allowed against vassals who kill a landed noble, or family member within your realm.

I think you're applying a modern view of the rule of law to the near anarchy of justice in the medieval period.

Any punishment relies on the power of the aggrieved party to enforce his justice.

Nothing I've read supports the idea that murder was automatically punished with death. I'd be interested to know your sources.

Of course it depends on the aggrieved parties ability to enforce justice. It's not as if we're talking about clicking a button and the attacker is dead. It would be likely that the attacker would defend himself knowing that he has nothing to lose. However, once the attacker is in prison, you should be able to banish, or execute them without the normal penalties.

 

[NexusSix]

LOL, just had my Granddaughter, murdered by her own mother at 14 ?!

This doesnt make any sense as the granddaughter murdered had also taken in her mothers Norse culture and the mother got no Kinslayer trait, Insanity trait etc etc etc.

To ice the cake, the King of Norway then wages a war on me because I put his tart in jail and the whole of the land fell out with me over it ..

HELLO, THIS IS A CHILD MURDERER ?!?!?!?!

LOL, that and the Muslims taking over all of Italy, I think my game is a bit confused !?!

 

[OrdepNM]

Well, the kind of justice the OP is asking cerainly did happen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inês_De_Castro

"After several attempts to keep the lovers apart, Afonso IV ordered Inês's death. Pêro Coelho, Álvaro Gonçalves, and Diogo Lopes Pacheco went to the Monastery of Santa Clara-a-Velha in Coimbra, where Inês was detained, and killed her, decapitating her in front of her small child. When Peter heard of this he sought out the killers and managed to capture two of them in 1361.[2] He executed them publicly, ripping their hearts out claiming they didn't have one having pulverized his own heart."

Bear in mind this was the bastard daughter of a small duke from another kingdom and lover of a prince, ie a courtier with little to no titular importance. Also King Peter's nickname in Portugal became "The Just" over this incident (in some circles, specially castille, also "The Cruel", this over the horrible torture he put the killer through, rather than the execution). Murderers during the medieval period could very much expect execution if the injured party could get their hands on them. There should be no penalty for applying justice in such cases.

 

[Zorlond]

So very, very /signed.

In every game, I immediately go to imprison any Lunatic or Possessed that I hear of plotting to murder someone. It's the only thing that can be done to stem the tide of random killings, as anyone who completes their plot gets off scot-free. Whether or not evidence turns up of their crime, if I attempt to do anything about it, I get slapped with tyranny penalties (and at the rate assassinations occour, that's no option!). And even then, my prison is inevitably full of nutjobs, because I can't do anything with them once they're in without tyranny. Why did the devs even give us castration and blinding if there is no practical use for them?

The justice system is very lack-luster right now. At the moment you can:

) Imprison for plots (murder, forge claim, see a title change hands?)
) Revoke 1 title for anyone taking up arms against you

And that's it. Every other possible action causes tyranny, meaning the people at large treat it as 'unjust'. I would happily submit myself to the possibility of game-ending punishments in the event of my getting caught if it meant that I could dole out feudal justice in turn.

 

[WankoStankins]

Yeah but what if they murder someone that you wanted to be murdered? If the guy that has a family member murdered has a high opinion of the murderer, he should have a chance to let it slide.