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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

LordTempest

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So the DFP would prefer to make Prussia a British puppet!
No more so than the backwards-thinking, land-owning barbarians wish to make Germany a puppet of the Russian Tsar with their pseudo-feudal economic policies!

Non-sense I wish to strengthen Prussia's regular army first and foremost not send them to sensitivity training as the DFP seems to prefer. The power of the Landwehr must not be underestimated. They are certainly not to be relied upon but they could be the difference between a war won or lost.
Bah! Herr Zorro would rather send second-rate troops to their deaths as cannon fodder rather than have them working in the factories producing guns and ammunition for our elite guardsmen.
 

Jako473

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Once again the KP resorts to its masterly skill at political prestidigitation to dodge the facts. The DFP does not wish for the dismemberment of the Prussian army, far from it, in fact we support the ongoing modernisation of our armed forces, but not at the cost of the modernisation of our industry! Herr Jako speaks of "progressives" and indeed he is right to, for the most powerful empire in the world today is none other than the most liberal. Great Britain is feared and respected throughout the world for its industrial might, which supports its military muscle as a suit of armour supports a knight, and what, pray tell, do the poor, backward-thinking countryside reactionaries in the KP have to say about that I wonder? :p
You say as if Anti-Military is agreeing with modernization and Pro-military is not. I state this as ultimately false! Military technology will always come first, modernization under a KP regime will bring the Prussian Armed Forces un-disputed masters at warfare! To your other statement, the most powerful empire will be the most liberal? Do you suggest we weaken our monarch, our konigh, our soon-to-be Kaiser to the low-low status of the British monarchs? Nay I say! Liberalism will destroy our social responsibilities!

With the protective policies of the KP, we can actually keep the factories running during war, instead of them going under because of some naval "blockade"! Tell me where you will assist our country while thousands are out of work, and our economy goes under? Will you just sacrifice Prussian honor for a white peace? Clearly the liberals underestimate the KP as always, if I truly were a reactionary, I would be calling for your imprisonment as supporting a regime that would give the self-damming non-Christians the right to keep their heresy of a faith! The only true way to pull through this world, and the only pure way of uniting all germans is the path of war. Do you think you can calm the Austrian antagonist when they see what we are doing? Ha!
 

Zorro

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No more so than the backwards-thinking, land-owning barbarians wish to make Germany a puppet of the Russian Tsar with their pseudo-feudal economic policies!
Do not try and twist the facts! Your party only is interested in promoting your rich friends into capitalists at the expense of the average citizen. The KP wishes to make it so every single Prussian, regardless of class, is literate. Perhaps the DFP wishes to keep the population illiterate so they will be easier to control?
 

DensleyBlair

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Do not try and twist the facts! Your party only is interested in promoting your rich friends into capitalists at the expense of the average citizen. The KP wishes to make it so every single Prussian, regardless of class, is literate. Perhaps the DFP wishes to keep the population illiterate so they will be easier to control?
A man cannot be promoted to be a capitalist – he can only promote himself. If our party encouraged such ventures, I don't see how to would be any different than handing out aristocratic titles and promoting your friends in other menial fashions. If anything, capitalists actually do something for the state!
 

Jako473

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A man cannot be promoted to be a capitalist – he can only promote himself. If our party encouraged such ventures, I don't see how to would be any different than handing out aristocratic titles and promoting your friends in other menial fashions. If anything, capitalists actually do something for the state!
Now, now gentlemen. We are not all at one side of the fence. Capitalist do their job well, driving our industry, modern Prussia would not be where we are now without them. Aristocrats also drive the agriculture, where most of our nation gets it common supplies and necessities from. Without Aristocrats, where would workers get their wages from? How would we divide the land? We need both sides of the upper class to continue to strive to greatness!
 

Zorro

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A man cannot be promoted to be a capitalist – he can only promote himself. If our party encouraged such ventures, I don't see how to would be any different than handing out aristocratic titles and promoting your friends in other menial fashions. If anything, capitalists actually do something for the state!
Promote themselves, ha! I bet you already have a list of people you plan on making capitalists. Capitalists actually do something for the state? How dare you in insult our aristocrats who oversee all RGOs in Prussia, including coal. If coal fails, steel fails. If steel fails, the country fails.
 

DensleyBlair

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Now, now gentlemen. We are not all at one side of the fence. Capitalist do their job well, driving our industry, modern Prussia would not be where we are now without them. Aristocrats also drive the agriculture, where most of our nation gets it common supplies and necessities from. Without Aristocrats, where would workers get their wages from? How would we divide the land? We need both sides of the upper class to continue to strive to greatness!
Of course, Meinherr – and I apologise if the opposite was inferred. Naturally, aristocrats are a valuable section of society, but we shouldn't be so quick to spurn capitalists either. While aristocrats do provide irreplaceable sources of livelihood for many, capitalists help innovate and drive more modern, profitable sections of the economy. Surviving on an economy based on cottage industry and subsistence farming will surely only become unsustainable as industrialism becomes more and more prevalent within our country, and global markets at large.

Which would of course lead me to my final conclusion: if we are to offer other states the chance to join us as part of a greater German nation, would they really be attracted by the proposition of becoming part of a technologically backward nation with an unsustainable, unprofitable economy?

Promote themselves, ha! I bet you already have a list of people you plan on making capitalists. Capitalists actually do something for the state? How dare you in insult our aristocrats who oversee all RGOs in Prussia, including coal. If coal fails, steel fails. If steel fails, the country fails.
Of course! In fact, I have a list of people whom I wish to endow with a guide to the market patterns and fluctuations for the next few years with me now. We cannot train business men to make profits. Of course we can help the, as best we can, but those capitalists who will succeed will spot so because of an innate nous and business acumen.
 

Zorro

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Which would of course lead me to my final conclusion: if we are to offer other states the chance to join us as part of a greater German nation, would they really be attracted by the proposition of becoming part of a technologically backward nation with an unsustainable, unprofitable economy?
Our economy will be far from unprofitable. Advanced steel and arm industries will be more than enough to entice our German brothers to the Prussian flag. Naturally the KP would keep pace with industrial technology that keeps our farms and modern.

Of course! In fact, I have a list of people whom I wish to endow with a guide to the market patterns and fluctuations for the next few years with me now.
Capitalists do not deal with market patterns and fluctuations, so hold off giving them that guide. They only put the money up front to build a factory. I've witnessed capitalists build countless glass factories only to have them be as unprofitable as the last one. These capitalists can be a random bunch, much better to focus our resources to increasing the literacy of our people, at least early on.
 

99KingHigh

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Bah! Were it not for the action of such so-called "terrible creatures" during the Spring of '48, neither of us would have the freedom to cast such a vote! Do you not feel that the German people have been subjected to enough equivocality from your party in regards to the all-important German question? I say we owe our collective masters a better answer than that.
And better times would have been preserved had it not been for radical opinions of the bourgeois. Instead, the Herrenhaus and the Landtag disrupt the unity of the nation, and cause political upheaval that we are engaged it at this very moment. The divine-right has come under threat by the Prussian National Assembly, which set about its task to destroy the Monarchical Absolutism that sustained the strength of the Prussian nation, and its military forces. Now we risk forfeiting the prowess of the Königlich Preußische Armee, as the Deutsche Forschrittspartei has the intention to weaken the authority of our traditional institutions that have made sure that Prussia, remains the hegemonic leader of Germany.
 
Last edited:

Andrzej I

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Bismarck and the Konservative Partei!

Gott mitt uns!
 

Mr. Sometimes

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And better times would have been preserved had it not been for radical opinions of the bourgeois. Instead, the Herrenhaus and the Landtag disrupt the unity of the nation, and cause political upheaval that we are engaged it at this very moment. The divine-right has come under threat by the Prussian National Assembly, which set about its task to destroy the Monarchical Absolutism that sustained the strength of the Prussian nation, and its military forces. Now we risk forfeiting the prowess of the Königlich Preußische Armee, as the Deutsche Forschrittspartei has the intention to weaken the authority of our traditional institutions that have made sure that Prussia, remains the hegemonic leader of Germany.
Tradition for tradition's sake will lead us nowhere Meinherr. Prussia must look forward and adapt to the demands of the modern world, else we risk losing that position we have fought so hard for. Like Herr Tanzhang has already pointed out, look to Britain. Surely their powerful industry and liberal values have served them well? A clear evidence that the conservatives preaching of doom and destruction are unfounded!
 

LordTempest

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You say as if Anti-Military is agreeing with modernization and Pro-military is not. I state this as ultimately false! Military technology will always come first, modernization under a KP regime will bring the Prussian Armed Forces un-disputed masters at warfare! To your other statement, the most powerful empire will be the most liberal? Do you suggest we weaken our monarch, our konigh, our soon-to-be Kaiser to the low-low status of the British monarchs?
Ja! And if Herr Jako believes as he seems to believe, that military reform cannot be achieved without industrial reform, and that national peace cannot be achieved without political reform, than I say he will be more than welcome amongst the German expatriates in the land of the Russian Tsar!

With the protective policies of the KP, we can actually keep the factories running during war, instead of them going under because of some naval "blockade"! Tell me where you will assist our country while thousands are out of work, and our economy goes under? Will you just sacrifice Prussian honor for a white peace? Clearly the liberals underestimate the KP as always, if I truly were a reactionary, I would be calling for your imprisonment as supporting a regime that would give the self-damming non-Christians the right to keep their heresy of a faith! The only true way to pull through this world, and the only pure way of uniting all germans is the path of war. Do you think you can calm the Austrian antagonist when they see what we are doing? Ha!
You speak of things which you cannot quite comprehend. You say we should protect our industries, fair enough, you seem to have more sense than the average Konservative, but pray tell how can we protect an industrial complex which we do not at present have?! First we much encourage industrial growth, build more factories, create more jobs, put our industry on a superior footing to Britain, France and Austria, and only then may we even speak about protection. When we actually have something to protect!

Do not try and twist the facts! Your party only is interested in promoting your rich friends into capitalists at the expense of the average citizen. The KP wishes to make it so every single Prussian, regardless of class, is literate. Perhaps the DFP wishes to keep the population illiterate so they will be easier to control?
Don't make me laugh Herr Zorro! What words have Graf Bismarck to speak on the subject of meritocracy? We are a party of self-made men and women, while yours is a party of the aristocracy and the titled.

Now, now gentlemen. We are not all at one side of the fence. Capitalist do their job well, driving our industry, modern Prussia would not be where we are now without them. Aristocrats also drive the agriculture, where most of our nation gets it common supplies and necessities from. Without Aristocrats, where would workers get their wages from? How would we divide the land? We need both sides of the upper class to continue to strive to greatness!
Without liberalism those workers would not even receive wages! Need I remind you that it was not the landed aristocrats who ended serfdom in Prussia.

Promote themselves, ha! I bet you already have a list of people you plan on making capitalists. Capitalists actually do something for the state? How dare you in insult our aristocrats who oversee all RGOs in Prussia, including coal. If coal fails, steel fails. If steel fails, the country fails.
I for one will do all in my power to insult those who only achieve wealth and prominence through the toil of their forefathers alone, who perpetuated serfdom, perpetuated poverty, and who continue to hold all of Germany back with their ignorance.

Our economy will be far from unprofitable. Advanced steel and arm industries will be more than enough to entice our German brothers to the Prussian flag. Naturally the KP would keep pace with industrial technology that keeps our farms and modern.
Listening to the KP speak of economics is like listening to the Tsar speak on liberty and democracy! Bah, I say, Bah! Your protectionist policies will see our budget strained to its limits in the name of defending unprofitable agriculture, your wasteful military policy will see it strained even further. Once Bismarck is done, there shan't be a single Reichsmark left for the factories! How can a nation seek to modernise without industry? This is not the Dark Ages, I hasten to remind you, though one suspects that there are more than a few KP-supporting aristocrats who wish it still were!

Capitalists do not deal with market patterns and fluctuations
Bah! They deal with nothing else, unlike those narrow-minded, profiteering barons who live off the hard work and toil of men they see as no better than serfs.

And better times would have been preserved had it not been for radical opinions of the bourgeois. Instead, the Herrenhaus and the Landtag disrupt the unity of the nation, and cause political upheaval that we are engaged it at this very moment. The divine-right has come under threat by the Prussian National Assembly, which set about its task to destroy the Monarchical Absolutism that sustained the strength of the Prussian nation, and its military forces. Now we risk forfeiting the prowess of the Königlich Preußische Armee, as the Deutsche Forschrittspartei has the intention to weaken the authority of our traditional institutions that have made sure that Prussia, remains the hegemonic leader of Germany.
It was not for an abundance of liberty which sparked the Springtime of '48, but a chronic deficiency of it! You seek to starve an already malnourished man, and when a man is starved of liberty he turns to revolution, as was the case in 1848. I for one, feel that the Prussian Army is best served fighting against the French than fighting against their fellow Prussians, do mein Herren disagree?
 

NikoHoI3

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My vote goes to the German Progress Party!
 

Duke of Awesome

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I vote for the Conservative Party.
 

LordTempest

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Tommy4ever

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Just an update on the current scores on the doors:

Votes

DFP: 11
KP: 8

So, the 236 seat Lantag would be divided as follows:

DFP: 137
KP: 99

So the DFP will win an outright majority here, but the Conservatives have rallied from a slow start - currently at their highest percentage of the vote since the start of the election and just short of 100. I've decided against leaving seats for minorities (in this case just the Poles would have got 13 as they did IRL) to keep things simple - we'll stick to the parties people get to vote for. With 19 votes already in its looking to be a positive start for this AAR, 20 really being the minimum amount I'm looking for to keep elections viable, we should pass that easily :).

Keep voting! :D
 

LordTempest

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At what point do we get erstimme and zweistimme votes as in actual Germany? Post-WWI?
 

Duke of Awesome

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Well you would, wouldn't you? :p
If you are implying that I vote for the Conservative party purely because I am a duke, then, my good sir, I am deeply offended!
 

alxeu

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I vote Conservative, so Bismarck can lead Germany to glory like he did historically.
 
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