Blocking Asian westernization?

[Politic Revolutionnaire]

This.
Even when I played Ming, I almost got wrecked by reactionaries when I was fighting 3 wars which normally wouldn't have troubled me. Portugal Spain in Americas, France in Africa, and Russia in the Urals.

All 3 wars dragged on for nearly 20 years, I was at 0 mp for over a decade, and at one point lost nearly 1/3 of my provinces to reactionaries.

even as Ming? With them is costlier due to size

 

[Chief of Staff]

Remember that with 1.14 we will be able to call protectorates into wars too, so with sending officers, we will have a better force than if they were vassals.

True, but they won't be Western so they probably won't have advantage over whoever I declared war upon in proximity of British India that haven't westernized yet. But I suppose that don't really matter. I dunno. Just have to wait and see how this turn out.

 

[MaXimillion]

I have a hard time seeing why you'd ever allow it.

Because you want to be able to vassalize and diploannex them after they've westernized

 

[IceTytanFang]

This.
Even when I played Ming, I almost got wrecked by reactionaries when I was fighting 3 wars which normally wouldn't have troubled me. Portugal Spain in Americas, France in Africa, and Russia in the Urals.

All 3 wars dragged on for nearly 20 years, I was at 0 mp for over a decade, and at one point lost nearly 1/3 of my provinces to reactionaries.

I had a similar experience as Inca: Westernizing, Internal Struggles, and a War with France and Portugal all at the same. Thankfully France never actually came, I was mostly fighting Portugal.

In 1.14, AI protectorates do not westernize.

Ah man yes. I think it was a subject interaction where 'do not westernize, +50% LD' like some people have been suggesting, but I'm still happy with this

 

[Natume]

Cancel protectorate? Seems a lot easier than waiting 10 years for them to westernize.

If only cancelling protectorates didn't cost 1 stability... Even diplomatic ideas do nothing about that. The stability hit for one large protectorate is one thing, but for a bunch of small protectorates becomes rather annoying. At least if they Westernize it gives you the option of eventually getting rid of them without spending buckets of admin points.

 

[Sunspawn]

True, but they won't be Western so they probably won't have advantage over whoever I declared war upon in proximity of British India that haven't westernized yet. But I suppose that don't really matter. I dunno. Just have to wait and see how this turn out.

You are underestimating the advantage of the Send Officers thing - it's 20% morale and 5% disc, which is huge. That and the -20% tech costs from being a protectorate.

 

[OceanicCarrot]

In 1.14, AI protectorates do not westernize.

Just make protecterates that westernize into vassals

 

[grommile]

Just make protecterates that westernize into vassals

Forcible vassalization is subject to size limits.

Forcible protectorate status is not.

Hence, your idea is a non-starter for hopefully obvious reasons.

 

[Kinniken]

Yeah, player protectorates can still westernize. However, protectorates will also calc their liberty desire based off all protectorates' power, so you can't blanket-protectorate all of asia.

Question there - is that also true if you have revoked the HRE? Or do you get the same benefit than for vassals, individual liberty calculations?

 

[Bella Gerant]

Forcible vassalization is subject to size limits.

Forcible protectorate status is not.

Hence, your idea is a non-starter for hopefully obvious reasons.

Nooooo, my instant-vassal Ming!!!

God, the LD on that would be frightful, now wouldn't it.

 

[MrParadux]

If only cancelling protectorates didn't cost 1 stability... Even diplomatic ideas do nothing about that.

I guess this is an oversight. Cancelling marches also did cost stability even with diplomatic ideas until it got patched. Maybe you should post a bug report to officially bring it to the devs attention