Disbanding Militias would be an option. Question being whether or not the intelligence was worth anything. I don't trust the espionage further than I can throw an elephant.
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Disbanding Militias would be an option. Question being whether or not the intelligence was worth anything. I don't trust the espionage further than I can throw an elephant.
Best AAR so far I hope that CPT will fight till bitter end, it's really unfair that allies are defending all the game and when they start winning they can't eat the candy but it suddenly ends with "ok gg".
Wow, Ztalin was even stronger than I thought. He is definitely a master of the build queue and it must be a bitter pill for Cpt to swallow to have been so close yet so far....and was the date I saw for the Poltava update a late November one? I thought Operation Mudskipper had shown how ineffective offensive operations against Russia in winter time are...I'm also impressed with how thoroughly the Axis managed to seize control of the Med waters, even if actually closing it is proving rather difficult. My guess on the sudden upswing in Jap prowess that gave the RN no chance at the end was a series of doctrine upgrades + the CAGs getting upgraded as well.
With the Axis failure in capturing either Gibraltar or Suez they are doomed, not because Germany is out of manpower, but because Japan is doomed and the US can go straight to invading Japan.
No, the clear Soviet superiority over the Germans is precisely why the Axis is doomed. Japan is of secondary importance, unless it brings many troops to Europe or deals a decisive blow to the Soviets or the Allies, that is. Anyway, it's Germany that matters. When Euro-Axis is done, Japan has absolutely no chance of survival in MP and in this AAR the Japanese are not even doing that well on their own. Ztalin owned everything, this is probably the best SU play in the series.
I'm not so sure about that, especially if they update the game to TFH, which will change balance again.
soviet gets extra 3500 mp in TFH, when surrender progress 20% is reached against them. In normal game. That's a lot of manpower 
. Then they get a one year mp growth boost, and one year territorial pride. But if this is not TFH-game then I guess Soviet must have disbanded something to get a quick extra MP?
I think it would be nice if you played to the finish. At least have it so that the final assault on the Axis is recorded. If player quits because he is losing, why not replace him with AI and just be done with the final assault? Or if there is a quit, force annex the quitting country.
It's ridiculous to have these kind surrenders in HoI3 type of game. Rudolf Hess tried the "offer surrender terms" tactic, look where it got him (in prison). And the war continued on... (hint, there may have been national intrests involved in WW2)
Even though it sucks to be on the losing end of the game but still... Unconditional surrender you say? WW2 you say? If surrender, replace with AI, or inherit the surrendered country :happy:
I want to see cpteasy play America or Soviet in next game!
. Then they get a one year mp growth boost, and one year territorial pride. But if this is not TFH-game then I guess Soviet must have disbanded something to get a quick extra MP?I think it would be nice if you played to the finish. At least have it so that the final assault on the Axis is recorded. If player quits because he is losing, why not replace him with AI and just be done with the final assault? Or if there is a quit, force annex the quitting country.
It's ridiculous to have these kind surrenders in HoI3 type of game. Rudolf Hess tried the "offer surrender terms" tactic, look where it got him (in prison). And the war continued on... (hint, there may have been national intrests involved in WW2)
Even though it sucks to be on the losing end of the game but still... Unconditional surrender you say? WW2 you say? If surrender, replace with AI, or inherit the surrendered country :happy:
I want to see cpteasy play America or Soviet in next game!
I know it's been asked before and you are playing for fun, but how open would you guys be for a forum suggestion set-up. You could call it "forum-carnage" An interactive vote on who plays which country... I personally would love to see you play the Soviets again, after sudden carnage ended so quickly. With perhaps Gamlastan on Germany and Zid on Italy, plus Sir Henry on Uk and Maxyboy Japan. Anyway just an idea if you guys are open for it.
As for the game, I too think a fight till the bitter end would be fun to read. The US hasn't even joined yet and they might not even be needed. I don't know how Zid pulled that off, but it would be worth and AAR on its own. I don't think Cpt made any huge mistakes, the forces were just overwhelming despite brilliant moves in the beginning. Without the encirclements of Barbarossa, the russians might be already on Berlins doorsteps in 1941.
An interactive vote on who plays which country... I personally would love to see you play the Soviets again, after sudden carnage ended so quickly. With perhaps Gamlastan on Germany and Zid on Italy, plus Sir Henry on Uk and Maxyboy Japan. Anyway just an idea if you guys are open for it.As for the game, I too think a fight till the bitter end would be fun to read. The US hasn't even joined yet and they might not even be needed. I don't know how Zid pulled that off, but it would be worth and AAR on its own. I don't think Cpt made any huge mistakes, the forces were just overwhelming despite brilliant moves in the beginning. Without the encirclements of Barbarossa, the russians might be already on Berlins doorsteps in 1941.
Yet again, no point in continuing a game which is decided already. And judging by the other carnage games, they will not continue the game when one side clearly has no chance of winning. Even if readers are interested, you can not force them to continue playing.
I don't think that they want to turn the AAR into a forum-based democracy. They know themselves the best and they want to have fun. The AAR is just a bonus.
Interestingly, there were no problems with the Flying Circus in this game and it's FTM, not TFH. I guess that the UK must have been pushed quite hard...
UK probably didn't have time on their hands this game and they also lost several units in the early stages in Denmark and the UK.
So here is an addendum from the UK side. It has been a hard battle. Axis is impressing and very skillful in catching the Brits with their pants down again and again. But don´t be to hard on us, the Axis already are in the game
The battle continues .....
Thanks a lot Gamlastan. Nice maps there
Honastly, I am quite happy with our house rules. Had it not been for the mighty Soviet build up the Axis would have crushed the Allies in this game. In December 1940, UK had lost some 25 divs of mostly MOT, Canada was gone and the Red Army had lost a stunning +40 divs in the face of some insignificant Axis losses on tops 5 divs. I don't even see the strengthened winter effects as wrong... but as pointed out by other (below) there seem to be a possibility that use the upgrade system to max out production. Zid have simply done his homework with perfection. But I might be wrong.
Yes, that might be the case.
Yeah, several people have commented that. I honestly hasn't game tested the effects of that - but no previous player on SOV have taken that initial punishment and yet been able to come back and stop a practically un-hurt Germany.
There has to be some ballance of course. It is rather low as offensive player to give up the first minute it looks bad. On the other hand, there's a difference in fighting a defensive war when waiting for significant reinforcemts (USA) or when knowing you have played your best card and the opponent has a full house...
The UK losing that many (or any) divisions that early is a first time and will probably never happen again. UK players will not make the same mistakes twice and Gamla has learned from his earlier error, just look at the defense of Gibraltar. Without that significant losses, we'd seen yet another boring circuis. Russia losing some 40+ divisions did cause them a headache, but then it was mostly infantry and Russia expected to lose some of these.
The Axis idea of bringing in the Japanese isn't that bad, but it should've been more significant a contribution. Japan has to try to fight it's way towards the Suez so the numerous Japanese divisions can participate in Russia. That's the only place they are worth anything.
BTW guys, if/when you switch to TFH, you should be careful about the maximum stacking penalty. It gives ridiculous results when the players stack air units or CVs. Just look at North America Series Game #5 AAR.
At this point, it does appear that Axis defeat is inevitable. It has nevertheless been an excellent AAR so far!
Before this game gets closed off, though, I'd like to make a suggestion. I would love to see the game continue onward to an East vs. West scenario. Could Ztalin make a Worker's Paradise of Europe and Britannia, or could the Allies (with the industrial might of America) accomplish what Hitler could not, and defeat the Bolshevik bear?
This way, we could see just how well the Captain can acquit himself throughout the downfall of the Reich -- and after Germany is defeated, perhaps Ztalin could release the DDR and the Captain could continue the narrative as the leader of the newborn German Republic fighting the capitalists?
Just a thought. I love the Carnage series, and I think that it would only get better if they were three factor games (rather than just Axis vs. The World).
Before this game gets closed off, though, I'd like to make a suggestion. I would love to see the game continue onward to an East vs. West scenario. Could Ztalin make a Worker's Paradise of Europe and Britannia, or could the Allies (with the industrial might of America) accomplish what Hitler could not, and defeat the Bolshevik bear?
This way, we could see just how well the Captain can acquit himself throughout the downfall of the Reich -- and after Germany is defeated, perhaps Ztalin could release the DDR and the Captain could continue the narrative as the leader of the newborn German Republic fighting the capitalists?
Just a thought. I love the Carnage series, and I think that it would only get better if they were three factor games (rather than just Axis vs. The World).
That's already the case, I think. Either the Comintern or the Allies can win. Not both.
In carnage, comintern is an allied member in everything but name. The comintern player is part of the allied voicechat and they cooperate in their planning. The game is declared won when the axis has lost, there's no allies vs. comintern conflict afterwards.
That will not change while the Axis are active and credible threat. Comintern vs Allies will only develop once the Axis have been beaten.
I would like to hear some suggestions on the possible way the Axis may have scored a victory in this game. Before we suggest some changes in their(!) house rules we should be sure that the Axis had no real chance to win. So let me start:
-Germany: There is nothing to complain about Cpt's game play. To me it was nearly perfect. First thing to mention is the good handling of the strengthened Poland/France, which I honestly don't like (the possibility to put players in both and restrict Germany pre war). Of course we can discuss about the first huge encirclement that was followed by "mud skipper". There perhaps he might have pushed in the south. But honestly, without a lot more troops i would have done something like "mud skipper", too. The pure mass of Ztalin's troops have been overwhelming, and a stretched front with the south like in Rostov or Stalingrad, but the north still at Minsk/Riga or so would be much to dangerous in case of a breakthrough there. Remember that Ztalin simply outproduced Germany, and Cpt never did anything more than a few subs and lots of land/air units, and it's just so early in the game.
-Italy: Perhaps the best candidate for a slightly buff in any way. Although well played, the lack of IC and tech seemed to leave them no chance to play an important role in the offensive. Even with the help of the Japanese in the Med they didn't score a point.
-Japan: hard to guess, as we haven't seen much of them. The last update of UK made me feel pity for them.
And we all don't now what might have happened if there was an early "Sealion", that was just cancelled because an unintended violation of the house rules.
On the other hand we have to point out: the UK/SU gameplay was really good. Simply good.
With all the balance issues these guys do with their house rules, I think a little buff for Axis in any way would be fine. As we can see, Axis did just manage to overwhelm one of their 3 early enemies: France. Neither UK nor SU have been threatened. And we have to remember, there is another sleeping giant on the Allied side, that didn't even enter yet. I personally would like to see a game were either SU or GB are gone before US enters the war, just have a longer lasting battle that adds something we haven't seen yet.
-Germany: There is nothing to complain about Cpt's game play. To me it was nearly perfect. First thing to mention is the good handling of the strengthened Poland/France, which I honestly don't like (the possibility to put players in both and restrict Germany pre war). Of course we can discuss about the first huge encirclement that was followed by "mud skipper". There perhaps he might have pushed in the south. But honestly, without a lot more troops i would have done something like "mud skipper", too. The pure mass of Ztalin's troops have been overwhelming, and a stretched front with the south like in Rostov or Stalingrad, but the north still at Minsk/Riga or so would be much to dangerous in case of a breakthrough there. Remember that Ztalin simply outproduced Germany, and Cpt never did anything more than a few subs and lots of land/air units, and it's just so early in the game.
-Italy: Perhaps the best candidate for a slightly buff in any way. Although well played, the lack of IC and tech seemed to leave them no chance to play an important role in the offensive. Even with the help of the Japanese in the Med they didn't score a point.
-Japan: hard to guess, as we haven't seen much of them. The last update of UK made me feel pity for them.
And we all don't now what might have happened if there was an early "Sealion", that was just cancelled because an unintended violation of the house rules.
On the other hand we have to point out: the UK/SU gameplay was really good. Simply good.
With all the balance issues these guys do with their house rules, I think a little buff for Axis in any way would be fine. As we can see, Axis did just manage to overwhelm one of their 3 early enemies: France. Neither UK nor SU have been threatened. And we have to remember, there is another sleeping giant on the Allied side, that didn't even enter yet. I personally would like to see a game were either SU or GB are gone before US enters the war, just have a longer lasting battle that adds something we haven't seen yet.